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Questions and source literature about electricity on Shabbat

שו”תCategory: HalachaQuestions and source literature about electricity on Shabbat
asked 7 years ago

To Rabbi Michael, Shalom Rav,
I heard a lesson from the rabbi about electricity on Shabbat, which mainly talked about the work of a builder. I wanted to ask more about electricity on Shabbat – I would be happy to have the sources of the main poskim who dealt with the field – whether it should be prohibited and why – the Chazon Ish, Rabbi Kook and perhaps others. I want to clarify the halakha from its earliest sources. (And if it is necessary to say something about it for the sake of a discussion in the forum, it is clear that the use of electricity began about 300 years after the Shulchan Aruch and it is not at all clear to me that it is prohibited. (And there is also a Conservative tradition that permits it.))
I also want to ask-
Regarding arson – the prohibition in the Torah and it seems to me that the language of Chazal is about extinguishing with fire, “You shall not kindle fire,” and the work of an arsonist. And I wonder where Rav Kook found the prohibition of lighting a fire? There is a prohibition to kindle, that is, to destroy matter by fire. “And to burn the evil from among you” is a matter of destruction, and likewise “a man who is burned” is a person who is missing. And the language “You shall not kindle fire” is a prohibition to specifically destroy with fire. Like “to strike a severe blow” which is to strike by a severe blow. And this is a matter in which the extinguishing is not something other than fire but rather its essence, and therefore there is no need to write “in” fire.
And I wonder what is consumed by electricity? And are electrons that move considered to be annihilation? And are bacteria that die when stepped on the floor considered to be killing on Shabbat? And I really don’t understand this physically. And as far as I know, the fire at the electric company is budgeted in advance, and we are not afraid of the bills that will come later, such as we are not afraid of a water bill that is recorded for use on Shabbat. Who does not intend and does not wish for it.
And regarding building, I saw it emphasized in the Gemara in Tractate Shabbat that it is as if it were done in the Temple. In the discussion, what is “anything” that is prohibited in building? And how do we prohibit electricity?
Where should the Rabbi begin to research the subject? What are the sources that inform the discussion in the various poskim? (I remember that the Rabbi in the above lesson cited the Rambam on Megven.)
And regarding Shabbat, I don’t understand – what if I study Torah from the Internet on Shabbat?
(In any case, in my opinion, it is forbidden to write something sustainable on a computer or to mark a sustainable sign, or to turn off the light so as not to waste electricity – who plans from Shabbat to Holi for the purpose of erasure and intends and blesses it, and the like, not everything is permitted.)
Best wishes and much appreciation,
Ofir


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0 Answers
מיכי Staff answered 7 years ago
You can find the sources with any search. For example, there is an entry on electricity in the Talmudic Encyclopedia. I don’t see the relevance of the Shulchan Aruch to the timing of the discussion on the prohibition of electricity. The Shulchan Aruch also lived a thousand years after the signing of the Talmud, so isn’t it important either? With all the (little) respect I have for the conservative movement, it’s a bit strange to me to talk about a “conservative tradition.” At most, one can talk about a conservative opinion (by the way, I remember there was also such an orthodox opinion, among some North African scholars). Your interpretation of the work of a kindler is possible but not simple. The work of burning is called that because it burns things. But since there is a term called burning that describes the kindling of fire, the work can be defined as the act of kindling the fire without regard to extinguishing it. This may depend on the disagreement between Rosh and Toss in Bitzah 22 regarding one who is satisfied with oil from a lamp. See there in the Sugiya and in the Commentaries. In any case, if it is about burning, there is room to say that it is only forbidden by the rabbis. It is very likely that burning that does not consume is also forbidden by the rabbis. I explained the matter of construction in that lesson, and there is no room here to go into more detail. I didn’t understand the ending (from the return onwards).    

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אופיר גל-עזר replied 7 years ago

Thanks for the answer.
I will clarify and ask-
A. What is the point of turning on the electricity? Some wanted to prohibit it because of the switch. If it is a mundane task - it is not necessary because one can study Torah using electricity.

אופיר גל-עזר replied 7 years ago

B. As far as I know, it is forbidden to make a permanent sign on Shabbat, but it is permissible to create words in the game of Shabbos with dice or by water. It seems to me that it is permissible to write a word in a search engine, but not in a Word document, because Word is permanent. And it is forbidden to save a document.

אופיר גל-עזר replied 7 years ago

C. Regarding the latter matter, I am concerned that if the electric company is checking how much oil to burn based on the last few days, turning off the electricity to conserve oil or fuel, is planning from Shabbat to Shabbos, if it is forbidden to plan to avoid work. After all, that is how one plans not to burn more oil. On the other hand, it seems to me that in public affairs, it is permissible to plan from Shabbat to Shabbos, such as sales in a synagogue.

מיכי Staff replied 7 years ago

Shvut in the sense you are talking about (the nature of Shabbat) is not understood by me at all. In my opinion, there are no criteria there.

The question is not only whether the merit is sustainable but whether there is an act of writing here. Not all creation of letters is writing (as in the law of Tokut and Yarkot, etc.).

I don't think the problem is the planning. I didn't understand comment C.

Copenhagen Interpretation replied 7 years ago

Can I have a link to the lesson?

מיכי Staff replied 7 years ago

I think this is:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwJAdMjYRm7IYlRaVTM1WnFPVzQ/view

אופיר גל-עזר replied 6 years ago

The Tosafot speak of the flickering of the wick, which is certainly not related to our issue,
and the Rosh seemingly helps me –
He writes-
“And we were discussing oil in a candle because it takes a long time to light it” That is, from the language of the Rosh it must be clarified that the burning is of the oil and not the burning of the fire, namely “You shall not light a fire” it is “You shall not light with the help of fire”, by adding oil the fire burns less but increases, but the oil is burning and therefore it is forbidden.
And also- “And one should not take a lighted wick from one candle and put it in another candle, because if it is removed from the candle, it will go out, and what good will it do if it is lit again:” That is, even though the light and heat remain in the wick (as I understand it, fire according to Rav Kook is light and heat), there is an extinguishing, because the oil that remains is less perishable.

מיכי Staff replied 6 years ago

I can't continue the discussion at such intervals. If you want to ask something, raise it here explicitly.

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