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Random observation

שו”תCategory: faithRandom observation
asked 2 years ago

Hello Dr. Abraham, I have some questions about faith, please. I would be happy to receive answers.
1- I argued to my secular friends (I am a convert) that as far as I know, humanity has not been exposed to random processes or phenomena, and therefore claiming randomness is not a scientific claim. They argued to me that quantum science has indeed revealed randomness, and I argued that it is possible that science has observed unexplained and regular phenomena of an unclear and trending nature, but science has not been able to put its finger on the absence of a motive for the observed phenomenon, but at most say, “Wow, that seems super random” while at the same time there is a motive for the phenomenon and it is nothing but “thermodynamic supernormality” and, God forbid, not “randomness,” and even if so, we do not have the tools to prove it. Am I right? I would be happy to receive sources and explanations.

2-I argued to my friends that the claim that creation has a Creator is not a scientific claim but a philosophical one, and that is, it is weaker in its validity than a scientific claim, and this is because a scientific theory is important as long as there is a possibility of refuting it, and that is, of proving it empirically, that the theory is not correct. (As Popper defined it if I am not mistaken), while the claim for a Creator for creation cannot be refuted because it is impossible to prove that there is no Creator at all, (when the space of possibilities is unlimited) but at most it can be said that it is difficult for me to understand it. {And I do not mean to say that the weight of the claim for the reality of the Creator is equal to claiming that there is a can of Coke flying somewhere throughout the universe, although there is no way to refute this claim in any way, there is also no reason to think about its truth, since the claim for a Creator for creation is the first rational one} Is this true?

3-I argued to my friends that there is no way to prove with scientific tools that there is a Creator for creation for the simple reason that there is no way to cast doubt on this claim, and in any case, there is no way to prove things that there is no way to cast doubt on. Is this true? (Perhaps a continuation of question 2)

-I heard a rumor about a quantum discovery, which identified that the particles that make up the core of the rain (sorry for the inaccuracy, I don’t understand physics terms) disappear and return, disappear and return, which essentially brings science to the conclusion that the entire material world actually disappears and returns, disappears and returns, only it returns so quickly after it has disappeared that its disappearance is irrelevant. (As in “renewing in goodness every day the act of Genesis”). Is this true?

Thank you in advance, Dr. Avraham. It is important for me to note that I am a former avowed atheist and currently a person with a Jewish identity (an ultra-Orthodox Abreech). I am engaged in outreach and outreach among an educated secular public, mainly students. So it is important to acquit many in the answers that I would be happy and hope to receive from you. Thank you very much,

And with your permission, another question, which is quite bothering me and I would be happy to get an opinion.

Through personal observation, I have arrived at an epistemological cognitive definition, which claims the following: The recognition of the reality of a Creator for creation is not only empirical a posteriori from our experience and observation that every creation has a Creator, but it is also purely a priori for the simple reason that we do not have the mental possibility of imagining an equation/pattern of creation without a Creator. (Just as we do not have the possibility of imagining that if Shimon and Reuben arrived at the house at exactly the same time, Shimon nevertheless preceded Reuben.) Is this true?
And perhaps a reference to my words is from what I once heard (perhaps Rabbi Neugerschel said this, perhaps on behalf of David Hume) that the principle of causality is logical and not subject to the laws of the world and even preceded them.
{And forgive my ignorance, but as a young man, do I understand correctly that the principle of causality means that everything has a cause that preceded it, and in essence a kind of logic that rules out a random chaotic process (?)}
Thank you very much in advance! Sorry for the length!

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0 Answers
מיכי Staff answered 2 years ago
peace. First, I suggest minimizing foreign terms, especially when they are repeated. I have known epistemological, empirical, experimental, a posteriori, and the like. It doesn’t necessarily impress people, but it looks strange and unprofessional. On the other hand, chaotic and random are really not the same thing. Just because you can’t imagine something in a certain way doesn’t mean it’s not true. The intuitive assumption that it’s true is the basis for it. And it’s not the same thing. To answer your question about causality, you need to define causality well. This is long (I did this in several places. For example, in the series of columns that begins with column 459 and onwards on my website). The very claim that it really originates in the day serves me in my debate with Aviv Franco from the atheist line (appears on my website).

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ד׳ replied 2 years ago

Sorry, I simply need a limited network for email, so I don't have access to your esteemed website, which I was exposed to in the past. If I may, I will share with you some points that slightly hurt me in the way you wrote and the firmness of your phrasing regarding the Jewish Torah world (I refrain from using the term "Haredim" because in my opinion this is a narrow-minded sectoral definition, but rather "people of the Torah" or "the authentic Jewish people" I think is a little more accurate) but that is not relevant at the moment. In any case, I was impressed and received clear and important foundations in building my faith from reading (albeit a little) your writings. For that, I am grateful and willing to continue to receive from you in this field (if I may).
Rabbi Neugerschel previously advised me not to rush into outreach and hasbara before I acquired knowledge and skill in the field, I understand that this is also your opinion (and the truth is that besides that I am really young, only 25, and only yesterday, relatively speaking, did I begin my teshuva process during my service in the army, which, by the way, began in the national public).
The reality is that I (sometimes against my will) engage in the field of outreach and hasbara, both by creating discussion groups and giving lectures (very recently, they even started inviting me to lectures) with a group of secular people from the most disconnected section of society that they have managed to create in Israeli society. In any case, up until now I have managed to stand behind every claim and question, and sanctify a lot of heaven with rational hasbara, (you may disagree and define it as empiricist, but in any case, intellectual hasbara) and perhaps the intellectual shallowness and mediocre analytical skills of the average secular academic are playing in my favor. And I have yet to encounter an atheist who truly has his teachings in order, and perhaps Isaiah's prophecy “And every tongue shall rise up against you in judgment and condemn you” stands in my favor.

-Regarding the use of those terms in both English and Hebrew, this is because I try to express myself only in Hebrew as much as possible, but I noticed that the use of foreign terms is more catchy and otherwise I am less understood, and therefore I combine them, and as for the chaotic and random ones, thank you, and sorry - that is how Wikipedia defined the terms as equivalent, but in any case I trust your professionalism more, and therefore I accepted.

Regarding the demon with wings, it is true that there is no way to refute it with scientific tools, but that does not mean that it is proven by negation, since there is also no good enough reason (if any) to assume the existence of this demon, especially when claiming the Creator of creation, which, as mentioned, is intelligent (thoughtfully, and experimentally) first! And as mentioned, there is also no way to refute it with an empirical test (similar to the demon). Am I right?

I apologize in advance for not writing to you on the site, as mentioned I do not have the technical option (by choice).
Sorry for the length in advance, but your answers will allow me to continue helping the sons and daughters of a place where Hindus have passed through the shallow secular world (as I used to), and are thirsty for the resolution of inadequacies and a clear foundation of faith that solidifies (almost) a true Jewish identity anyway.
Well done to the wise Dr. Avraham for spreading the light of faith in a clear, orderly and mainly rationalistic way!

מיכי Staff replied 2 years ago

Hello.
It seems to me that in the state of knowledge and skill that a reasonable person at the age of 25 (unless he is a particularly unusual phenomenon) does not want him to become a lecturer. Even if you feel that you are successful, I am not sure that this is also the feeling of the audience. I speak from experience. Just a few days ago I spoke with an older person who lectures in many places and has now debated. He feels very successful and accomplished, but again and again I hear from his audience that he is doing a disservice to atheists and achieving the opposite result. At the age of 25, when you have only been in the religious/ultra-Orthodox world for a few years, I would recommend that you continue to study, and later perhaps consider lecturing, etc. Beyond that, to use philosophy, it is not enough to hear rumors about it from a Nigerian. Again, I highly recommend familiarizing yourself with topics that are discussed publicly, especially when it comes to lectures and debates on faith that can lead to problematic results. The youthful enthusiasm of those who repent is famous, and of course it has value, but one must be careful with it when it is expressed outwardly. Lectures to others and criticisms of those within. I remember that Popik (Rabbi Mordechai) Arnon, the famous singer, came to speak at our high school yeshiva and criticized the entire religious and secular universe and his wife as if he knew everything and was fed directly from the mouth of the hero.

My policy is to refer to the website in my answers. If there is someone whose filtering does not allow this, he should look for a solution. Those who chose the haredi filtering should not impose the prices on others.

Regarding the demon with wings, if you assume that there is a God, then of course you will get a conclusion that he exists. This is the desired assumption. But to say that because it cannot be refuted, it is therefore stronger than scientific claims is nonsense. The fact that it is impossible to refute an argument is only its weakness (unless it is a tautology). What remains is the argument or intuition that leads to the conclusion that there is a God, and you should only discuss that.
Your assessment of the secular world as “shallow” is incorrect in my opinion. Most people are shallow in all worlds. Those who think in the secular world are usually on a level above those who think in the Haredi world, which is usually very shallow and childish. And of course your identification between the Haredi world and the authentic Jewish world is also unacceptable to me. It is not really deep and certainly not authentic. Of course, there are also virtues of devotion to Torah and knowledge and scholarship among some of the students, but in the fields of thought, the level there is truly shocking.

I am always happy to receive relevant comments on the way I express myself. I have already received comments about the decisiveness, and sometimes (quite rarely) I have agreed with them. In most cases, I have replied what I replied, and this is not the place.

מיכי Staff replied 2 years ago

I will briefly address only a few of the main points in your comments.
1. Many correspond with me by email and this is not the ’price’ I was talking about. The price I was talking about is in a situation where people cannot access the links on my site and ask me to discuss things anew (they cannot read the references I provide). To that, I say get rid of the Haredi filtering and do not impose the price on others. By the way, when people ask me to send them a file, I send it. I do provide this ’service’, but not a discussion of what I have already discussed.
2. Haredi filtering is not a tool for wise and responsible use of the Internet, as you wrote, but an economic tool for a group with an interest that ensures stupid use of the Internet. There are various filters for violence and sex, etc., but Haredi filtering also filters opinions, like my site. It is simply keeping the masses in the groove of the Hamlin pipers and not wise use of the Internet.
3. Regarding listening to the great men of the generation, they understand the Internet much less than you do and are fed by empty rumors and manipulated by vested interests. Their instructions in this matter are worthless.
4. Great Torah scholars are indeed those who have given their lives for it, but this is a necessary and not sufficient condition. There are quite a few who have given their lives for the Torah and still think like children, at least in certain areas. In contrast to the prevalent Haredi example, studying Torah, with all my respect for it. is not a substitute for acquiring other knowledge and skills.
5. You talk about how you escaped from Zionist or modern religiosity to Harediism, while I almost did the opposite (I was never really Haredi). Unfortunately, this form of reference is very childish, although it is vigorously cultivated in Haredi propaganda. In my opinion, there are greater Torah scholars in the religious Zionist world, without comparison at all. By the way, it took me a long time (and at an older age than you) to get rid of the false consciousness that Haredi has planted in the entire public (both secular and religious Zionists), which fails to see a person wearing a knitted kippah and sandals as great in Torah. Just a coat and a hat. In my opinion, greatness in Torah is not determined by the color of the clothes or the kippah, but by the content, knowledge, skill and common sense. In my opinion, these ingredients are much more present in non-Haredi rabbis. This is certainly true for the areas of thought (what is called in the Haredi world the ‘view’), and no less so for the application of Halacha in life, but even in Talmudic study itself there is sometimes an expression of dishonest thinking in students who sacrifice their lives (truly) for the study. There is something crooked in someone who is locked up all his days in a court of law, and it takes hard work to straighten it out. Some do this (like the late Haresh Zel) but most do not (because of the baseless Haredi dogma that the cubits of Halacha are a substitute for everything and from there any knowledge and skill can be derived).
6. Your reference to Aviv in the debate as a villain outrages me. He has a different perception, and he is not more or less a villain because of his perceptions. The position that sees everyone who thinks differently as a villain has villains in it. It is true that he was biased in his thinking and I even wrote and said so, but who among us is not like that?! Surely someone who belongs to the Haredi cannot make claims against a person with biased and poor thinking. The figures you study and are close to are more biased than him.

Finally, if you have any points you would like to discuss, you are certainly welcome. I very much prefer through the Q&A system on my website, but in retrospect it is also possible by email, with the above limitations.
Okay, that's it.
All the best and good luck,

למה סתם replied 2 years ago

The jargon is not that of a recent convert but of a well-rounded and experienced ultra-Orthodox abbot who is accustomed to the Gemara. Apart from small signs scattered along the way and difficult to point out explicitly, the use of the phrase that the claim is “violent in its validity than a scientific claim” is notable, which is a Hebrew translation of an Aramaic expression regarding the strength of claims (elim tefi), as is the casual use of the acronyms משאכן.

EA replied 2 years ago

Rabbi, you wrote, "In my opinion, there are greater Torah scholars in the religious Zionist world, without comparison at all." Can you give an example?
I know many, many rabbis of all kinds, and I don't see who is greater than Rabbi Feinstein, the Chazon Ish, Rabbi Elyashiv, the Harrash, etc.?

מיכי Staff replied 2 years ago

In my opinion, young rabbis that you know are no less great than them. Not to mention Rabbi Lichtenstein and Rabbi Amital and Rabbi Rabinowitz. I won't mention the young ones by name, but you know some of them. Just ignore the sandals and the knitted kippah that make us all look bad. It's not that they have more knowledge. They usually have less. But their judgment is more honest, and certainly in areas that are not Halacha proper. That's why in my opinion they are greater.
By the way, Rashza was definitely a very honest judge, and I didn't talk about him. Nor was Rabbi Feinstein (whose thinking I identify with less). But it's not for nothing that these two were not Haredi leaders.

בני replied 2 years ago

Mickey, it's strange that great rabbis who have honest judgment are marked as non-Haredi by you.
The Gersh”ez Auerbach is not Haredi, Rabbi Feinstein is not Haredi, and so is Rabbi Enavdia.
And if there are some who are, it's in past generations.
It's clear that you're biased and your hatred of Haredi is driving you crazy.
You just need to pay attention to the sentence "in the eyes of young rabbis you know, no less great than them", meaning no less great than the Chazon Ish. It's not serious.

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