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Regarding the moral value of caring for one’s family

שו”תCategory: philosophyRegarding the moral value of caring for one’s family
asked 1 month ago

Peace and blessings, dear Rabbi Michi, I watched one of the podcasts you participated in recently (I think that already in 2015 it can be officially announced that you have become the world champion in debates in Israel. You deserve it. . . You are truly an intellectual personality who is exceptional in our generation), and I heard you claim that in your opinion there is no value in the country.
The host, for his part, replied to you that the Greeks claimed that there was value in caring for the family, and from there it expanded to become value in caring for the tribe – and from there he wanted to conclude that there was a normative value in the state (of the Jews, interestingly, which was secular, by the way). You evaded the conclusion by uprooting the axiom and saying that there is no value at all for a person to care for his family. It is simply a person’s interest to care for his family, but it does not stem from a normative value. You came off a bit utilitarian on this issue.
I ask you, do you insist that there is no value in a person taking care of his own family? If we measure according to Kant’s categorical imperative, the conclusion will certainly be the opposite, and I think that as a Kantian you are also supposed to accept the conclusions of the categorical imperative.
Let’s take, for example, the question of whether a person has an obligation to care for his son. I once had an argument with a man about this. He argued that actually caring for another child is no less moral than caring for your own son.
I replied that the reason I believe I have a moral obligation and duty to act for my son more than for the son of a stranger is twofold, purely substantive considerations. First, Kant’s categorical imperative holds – do what you would wish to become a universal law – that is, the measure of what action is essentially right is a bird’s-eye view of what would happen if everyone acted in the same way, would the world be better or worse? After the conclusion of the equation, it becomes clear with certainty which action is moral and which is not. Again, not from utilitarian considerations, but only as a method for calculating a moral formula. And for our purposes, regarding a person’s moral obligation to care first and foremost for his son more than for others; if all the people of the world neglected their responsibility to care devotedly for their son, what would happen to humanity? Oh, oh, that’s right, an especially tragic outcome. In the pessimistic scenario, babies would not survive the infancy stages at all, and humanity would destroy itself within a few generations. And in the optimistic scenario, if it were shown that babies would survive, there is certainly no doubt that their education would have been spoiled and negligent, and those little ones, when they grew up to be adults, would have created a generation of slaughtered and miserable people, with mental disorders and enormous childhood deprivations – and even in this optimistic scenario, I do not recommend that anyone live in such a cursed world. You understand for yourself what the conclusion of the categorical imperative of the downer is, very true – it is a moral obligation for a father to be a guarantor for his own son above all, and he has no other person who can fill the parental slot. This is one
I think this argument is very valid in a Kantian Deontic methodology, and you do belong to that school. And just as the categorical imperative obliges a man to take care of his son, so it obliges him to take care of his wife and also his parents. So I think the one-valued conclusion is that yes, the conservatives are right who claim that there is value in taking care of the private family.

Regarding the transition from the private family to the tribe, that’s a more analogical and less necessary conclusion. But I think that’s also a valid conclusion. Do you agree?


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מיכי Staff answered 1 month ago
I don’t think I said there that there is no value in caring for a family. On the contrary, I argued that there is also value in caring for a people or a community. What I said is that the existence of a family or a people has no value. It is an interest. But since the group has an interest in its existence, there is moral value for everyone to care for the group. Like caring for food for the poor, when food for the poor is not a value but an interest. But when someone has an interest, there is value in helping them with it. If you listen again, you will see that I made this distinction there. Regarding the categorical imperative and the consequentialist question, I completely agree. I have written about this here more than once against universalism.

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מיכי Staff replied 1 month ago

See columns 188, 266.

דניאל קורן replied 1 month ago

I understood you, I thank you for clarifying your position for me.
But in my opinion, the existence of a family is also a normative value derived a priori from the categorical imperative in the same way. If it were to become a general law not to have a family: the world would be destroyed within just one generation – km”l that there is a deductive value in the existence of the family (not just an a posteriori value after the family already exists to take care of it, but an a priori norm to establish such a family).
According to what I said, there is already a great deal of room for discussing an inductive generalization to a normative value for the existence of tribes and communities.

מיכי Staff replied 1 month ago

I don't see why the existence of a family is a moral value. A world without families would perhaps be less efficient but no less moral/good.
And as for efficiency, that's only if you advocate having as many children as possible. If the entire world were single people, they would die and humanity would become extinct. That's it. Is there anything wrong with that?
Especially since there are different models of families, kibbutzim, groups, new families of all kinds.

דניאל קורן replied 1 month ago

The part where there would be no world without families because humanity would have become extinct. If you think there is nothing wrong with that, only then can you argue that there is no value in bringing families. But to me this sounds like a strange explanation, because I define a moral world as one in which there is moral choice and decision. If humanity were to disappear from the map – the world would become completely devoid of morality. Neither immoral nor amoral, the equation of ethics would be completely erased. The world would return to an era in which only animals and animals devoid of choice would rule. As I think this is a very problematic result from the perspective of Kantian ethics. So yes, I am again arguing that the existence of a family has a deontological moral value.

On the efficiency side, I did not claim that a large family has more benefit than a small family. This is certainly not necessary, because the increase in the number of people does not necessarily lead to a better world. But I did argue that there should be a basic family structure (since I can't think of a utopian structure right now, let's say for the sake of discussion a couple of parents and 3 children, so that humanity doesn't tend to shrink to the point of extinction in the long term).

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