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Regarding the passage of the draft law

שו”תCategory: generalRegarding the passage of the draft law
asked 4 months ago

Is it possible to pass a law that says that anyone who evades conscription into the IDF has no right to vote for the Knesset? Is this moral and acceptable in the High Court of Justice, in your opinion? And if so, what will be the law for the Arabs?
 


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מיכי Staff answered 4 months ago
It won’t pass the High Court. In my opinion, there is no problem with such a law.

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דוד ש. replied 4 months ago

Interesting. When you say “no problem”, do you mean: “maybe not democratic or legal, but no problem”. Or would you also, as a High Court judge, approve the law. What about denying the right to vote to criminals from certain other fields?
Don't anti-Zionist dodgers (which makes much more sense) hate today's Haredim, most of whom are already more Zionist than Ben Gvir.

I am in favor of harsh sanctions, prison, and more. But here in particular I tend to disagree.

מיכי Staff replied 4 months ago

Those who do not fulfill their duties do not deserve rights. I do not understand what the problem is. As for criminals, I have no problem with that either. As long as it is a serious, intentional and deliberate crime, and not a local offense that can happen to anyone. It has nothing to do with the question of who is a Zionist. On the contrary, if he is a Zionist, he deserves even less right to vote because of his evasion.
The statement that it is not so and the denial of voting is not, seems really strange to me. Why do you think the denial of freedom is justified and the denial of voting is not? And that the right to vote is more important and fundamental than freedom? And that it is less annoying?

דוד ש. replied 4 months ago

I am not here to argue that prison is easier than denial of voting.
Can we enter into a discussion about the values of Western democracy, that is my question.
I do not commit to the coherence of every law and restriction in democracy, but it is customary to see the right to vote as a supreme value, even prisoners vote. I see the logic in this, but as mentioned, it is possible to discuss it. I was not sure that this is the discussion, so I asked whether you are saying that “even though it is not democratic, it will be”, or that in your opinion it is even legally acceptable.
On the other hand, regarding those who declare that they do not see themselves as part of the state, there is a much better case.

דוד ש. replied 4 months ago

A criminal, punished by law, and imprisoned.
But it is customary to see the right to vote as the most fundamental, the prisoners will come and vote for their release or for breaking the ban on their offense.

חרדי פגוע replied 4 months ago

Rabbi, there are those who don't dodge, but from the perspective of the law, it is permissible not to enlist like most Haredim, and like me.
What do you think about them?

If it were mandatory to enlist, that would be something else, but the state allows it! Now you want to say that retroactively they should be denied the right to vote?
Maybe we will deny it to everyone who enlisted in the army.

מיכי Staff replied 4 months ago

You are both a damaged Haredi and an exemplary law-abiding Haredi. It is only in reading comprehension that you have serious problems.

Thank you, why?
You mean by the term evasion what happens on a daily basis, not that within the law a person is evading.

I mean that as long as it is done within the laws, it is not called evasion that can invalidate an election.
Do you agree with me? This is how the Haredi public is, 99% of the time, up until these very days.

מיכי Staff replied 4 months ago

First of all, you are factually wrong. For some time now, there has been no law that exempts Haredim and everyone is required to enlist. In the past, too, there was no exemption for Haredim, only for students. The rest were already evading service.
As for the matter, as long as the law permits evasion (and as mentioned, it does not), it is clear that sanctions cannot be imposed on evasive draftees.

בדידי הווה עובדא replied 4 months ago

As far as I knew, until about the last year, the situation was that anyone who was registered in a yeshiva received an exemption at the age of 24 or 26.
The actual obligation was not to study in a yeshiva, but to stay in a yeshiva, or more precisely, to do nothing except stay in a yeshiva. (Indirectly, the fact that Haredim do not work is because of this stupid law, for example, I know someone who was caught because he volunteered at the MDA)

Even a person who broke the law would usually not try to evade it, there were very few who went this route.
Usually, someone who was a "liar" simply found an educational institution that agreed to accept them under its auspices so that he could report the rejection to the Tel Hashomer office in the Beinish section. Until he received a rejection when he reached the age of exemption.
Or he issued an exemption for himself.

Both of these ways are not evasion and the state usually turned a blind eye knowingly!!! Ask any KABN

So how exactly does it make sense to take away the right to vote from this entire holy public while it was governed by the laws of the country.

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P.S. I remember how someone who received an exemption due to age breathed a sigh of relief, and planned to take a trip abroad after the exemption 😉
Some kind of afterlife

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