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Sacrifice

שו”תCategory: HalachaSacrifice
asked 5 years ago

Is it necessary to renew the court – to go on pilgrimage and offer sacrifices [impurity is permitted in public, one can still make it to Pesach Sheni], if necessary, why should the sound of a thin silence be heard?!?! Since when did they forget to take care of the religious?
The claim of danger from the Arabs is weak. The people of Israel gave their lives for the building of the Temple and the constant sacrifices.


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0 Answers
מיכי Staff answered 5 years ago
I didn’t understand who the claim was directed at. The government? Her grandmother is interested. The citizens? They can’t do it (even if they give their lives, it won’t happen). Incidentally, no one should give their lives for commandments that aren’t among the most serious.

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נור replied 5 years ago

To the rabbis and the rabbis, if the citizens speak up now, maybe in 40 years it will happen.
I didn't demand that anyone be killed, but if the whole problem is the Arabs, solutions can be found, and it's not a matter of will that allows the work of the court to be canceled.

הפוסק האחרון replied 5 years ago

Those who long for a temple and sacrifices should leave the Jews alone.
Only foolish idolaters think and believe that sacrifices do good and are important to God.
There is only one sacrifice in Judaism. The Passover sacrifice. All the rest is idolatry so that they will not go and graze in foreign fields.

Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Your burnt offerings are finished upon your sacrifices, and ye eat flesh: for I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices: for if I had commanded them this thing, saying, Obey my voice, then I would have been your God, and ye would have been my people. And you shall walk in all the way which I have commanded you, that it may be well with you:

נור replied 5 years ago

What amazing scholarship! Your name is beautiful to you… it's a shame you're not the ‘last scholar’. Because of an interpretation in understanding the commandments, you cancel them.
It's good that you didn't say that about Shabbat, which is only for rest and for those who don't need an exemption, or about prisoners with tzitzit and a short veil.
Only fools think they can know for sure why God said something, maybe because they are smarter than God, that's why they also cancel His commandments,
But that's not related to the body of the question, because you also think that sacrifice is always ‘not current’, Pesach is [why is it different? Maybe because you're afraid of selling].
By the way, the people of Betar were ashamed of sacrifices, and I identify with them, only that unlike them, I want to sacrifice because God is more important to me.

הפוסק האחרון replied 5 years ago

The Passover sacrifice is a memorial of the Exodus from Egypt
The other sacrifices are so that the Israelites will not flee to the rest of the land
The whole Temple thing is a substitute for the land It has no meaning in the Torah. This was decided after the Torah was given.

נור replied 5 years ago

The whole issue of the Temple being a substitute for the Law has no meaning in the Torah. This was decided after the Torah was given.
What does it mean? It is not written in the Torah or according to the Torah of the Certificates, and how is it different from other commandments?

הפוסק האחרון replied 5 years ago

There is no Temple in the Torah.
And in general, if there is a place that is special in the Torah in some contexts, it is Beit El and not Jerusalem.

נור replied 5 years ago

All sacrifices are written in the Torah, and to the best of my knowledge, when there is a prohibition against sacrificing on altars, sacrifices are made in the court.
What do you mean by that?! Is there no halacha in the Rambam to build the court or are you disagreeing with it????!!!!!!
A posk should clearly justify his words

הפוסק האחרון replied 5 years ago

God and Moses are not interested in sacrifices.
There is no difference between the golden calf where the Israelites sacrificed all their gold and mere sacrifices. It only has meaning from the perspective of idolatry.
Do you want to sacrifice? Sacrifice yourself. In deeds.

When the Messiah comes, things will return to their place and the laws of Chazal that were right for their time will be nullified. And this reflects on all of Halacha. This will happen when they begin to keep the Torah.
The same applies to all of the Torah of the priests. It is all meaningless. The tribe of Levi is a tribe set apart in the blessings of our forefather Jacob. And it became holy in its own eyes. The main thing is that it did its job at least partially. It will be necessary to know which passages are missing from the Torah given by Moses and which were added later. Not easy at all.

נור replied 5 years ago

I have added a distorted interpretation. Stupid. You did not explain the verses. If there is a law to build in the morning, then build even if it does not seem to me what God says.

מיכי Staff replied 5 years ago

To the two goats on the bridge. Arrogance and insults are not substitutes for arguments. And if there are arguments, it is advisable to forgo insults (although I have no objection to reasonable assertiveness).
https://sites.google.com/a/savyonim.tzafonet.org.il/g1/home/13/15/mslym/mgr-mslym/sny-tyysym-l-gsr

הפוסק האחרון replied 5 years ago

I said that these laws and many other laws, (it is very possible that all the laws) will be abolished when the Messiah comes.
And they will keep the Torah that Moses gave. And in the Torah that Moses gave there are no sacrifices: For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.

And the priests and the Levites shall perish for their false position which they have bought for themselves: Simeon and Levi are their brethren, all the instruments of their merchandise: My soul shall not enter into their secret, neither shall my glory enter into their mouth: for with their mouth they slew a man, and with their mouth they hamstrung an ox: cursed is their mouth, because it is And their transgression, because it is a bow, I will divide them in Jacob, and I will scatter them in Israel:

And all the matter of the sacrifices and the sanctuary shall be void and become as the dust of the earth.

And Moses saw the people, for Pharaoh was he, and Pharaoh was Aaron, for a reproach among them:

נור replied 5 years ago

That's something else. No problem.
It has nothing to do with the issue at hand!!!!!!!
The issue is whether today we have an obligation to build a temple and offer sacrifices [as long as we have not received a different command]. The answer is yes. Certainly according to Maimonides. Why don't they shout it out in the streets? Why do they worry about such and such mitzvot and forget the most important mitzvah?!?!
PS. If that's what you meant in advance, why did you exclude Passover? I tend to think you did a professional retraining for the debate.

הפוסק האחרון replied 5 years ago

Not sure at all. According to Rambam, in order for us to know that the Messiah who comes is the Messiah, he must build the Temple and gather the outcasts of Israel. So if we build the Temple, what will happen to the Messiah? Unless you are planning the destruction of the Third Temple and for the Messiah to build the Fourth Temple.

הפוסק האחרון replied 5 years ago

Why did I exclude the Passover sacrifice? In other words, you ask, what is this work for you? The Passover sacrifice is to the LORD, who passed over the children of Israel in Egypt when he struck the Egyptians and saved our children.

And the Passover sacrifice is not at all connected with a temple or with Jerusalem: and it shall be when you come into the land which the LORD will give you, as he has spoken, and you shall keep this service.

And this service shall be done every family in its own house: and you shall take a bunch of hyssop and dip it in the blood that is on the bough. And you shall touch the lintel and the two posts with the blood that is on the threshold, and none of you shall go out of the door of his house until morning.

It is clear that what the Torah says is not what was legally established during the exile. But when the Messiah comes, everything will return to its place.

נור replied 5 years ago

I am amazed at the extraordinary scholarship I am discovering here.
”And it shall come to pass, when ye come into the land”, it is said, that ye shall build the temple, and there to offer the Passover and all the sacrifices, since it is forbidden to offer on the altar.
”And this work is done every family in its own house…”, do you think that all the readers of the site are ignorant that this is the Egyptian Passover?!?!
In your ’worry’ preparation ‘What will the Messiah do if the temple is built’, I understand your heart, but instead of worrying about his worries, it is more important to fulfill the words of the Maimonides:
”The mitzvot is to make a house for the Lord’ I am willing to offer sacrifices in it and celebrate it three times a year, as it is said, "And make me a sanctuary," and it is already interpreted in the Torah as a tabernacle that Moses made, and it was according to the time it is said, "You have not come until now," etc.

It is quite clear that this is the law. It is not clear why it is not observed. According to the responses, I feel that the public thinks this is yet another unprofessional curiosity, and I am waiting for a more appropriate response than mocking the goats.

הפוסק האחרון replied 5 years ago

If you want, you are welcome to write a new Torah.
In our Torah it says: And it came to pass, when ye were come into the land.
In your Torah you will write: And it came to pass, when ye had built the house of the LORD.

And ye kept this work, which refers to the work of the Passover of Egypt in the verses before which it is necessary to keep. As you have identified.

Regarding the house of the LORD. This is not true. There is no positive commandment for our time to build the house of the LORD. The commandment was for the time of their entry into the land. After the response to the plague that spread in the land of their entry: And you shall throw down their altars and break their pillars and burn their images with fire and cut down the images of their gods and destroy their name from that place

All this was true in their time. What is true in our time to fight the plague is to smash all kinds of kabbalists as charlatan fools who spread the plague in cunning and devious ways: And the images of their gods you shall cut down

נור replied 5 years ago

1 You rule that there is a Passover of Egypt for generations, do you have a source or is this your own interpretation? Why have they always not observed the Passover of Egypt in Israel?!
I know that there is a prohibition against building on a platform. And in the Gemara it is written that the Passover of Egypt was said only for its time.

2. Do you disagree with the Rambam?
Strange inventions should not be based on air.

You can disagree with the Rambam, the Talmud, and Moses our Lord, and also with God. Just specify whether you disagree or interpret, or invent. Thank you very much.

הפוסק האחרון replied 5 years ago

This is what is written:
And Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Sit down, and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover: and take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is on the threshold, and strike the lintel and the two doorposts with the blood that is on the threshold: and ye shall not go out any man of his house until the morning: and the LORD shall pass by. To plague the Egyptians, and he shall see the blood upon the lintel, and upon the two doorposts, and the LORD shall pass over the door, and shall not suffer the destroyer to come into your houses to plague you: and ye shall keep this thing for a statute for thee and for thy children for ever: and it shall come to pass, when ye come into the land which the LORD giveth you, as he hath spoken, that ye shall keep this rite: and it shall come to pass, when ye shall come into the land which the LORD giveth you, as he hath spoken, that ye shall keep this rite: and it shall come to pass, when ye shall come into the land which the LORD giveth you, as he hath spoken, that ye shall keep this rite: and it shall come to pass, when ye shall come into the land which the LORD giveth you, as he hath spoken, that ye shall keep this rite: And your children shall say to you, What is this service to you? And you shall say, It is the sacrifice of the Passover to the LORD, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses: and the people bowed down and worshipped:

A central part of the Passover sacrifice in Egypt was the blood on the doorposts, and they did not go out of the houses. To say that ”this service” is only for the sacrifice and not for the rest is exaggerated. And we see in Pesach Sheni: According to all the law of Pesach they shall do it

And there is no connection between the Pesach sacrifice and the Temple as we see in Pesach Sheni: And the man who is clean and was not on the way and was not able to keep the Passover, and that soul shall be cut off from his people because he did not offer the offering of the Lord at its appointed time, that man shall bear his sin.
If you are clean and not on the way (but at home) and do not keep Pesach. Cut off. There is no connection with the sanctuary.

There is a positive commandment. But it is for the time of their entry into the land. And since today there is prayer instead of sacrifices, then there will be a meeting instead of a temple. And later on, there will be no need for prayer either. Then every Jewish home is a temple. And there is no contradiction in this with the words of the Rambam: The commandment is to build a house for the Lord, prepared to be a place of sacrifices. Even your own house is enough in the end.

Where did I disagree? I said that the halakha was written for its time. I do not disagree with it. And if you want to be precise in the words of the Rambam, you may be able to find hints of this. But it is not that important. There is the Torah.

דביר replied 5 years ago

Your understanding of the Rambam that the sacrifices are a substitute for the gift is a mistaken and superficial understanding of the Rambam's reading (although the great sage wrote this, it seems to be a superficial reading).
The Rambam himself writes that the sacrifices, their main concern is adherence and devotion to God Almighty, and in any case the gift will be erased. Therefore, the Rambam's opinion that there is a mitzvah to build the Temple stands forever and does not depend on temporal reasons.

נור replied 5 years ago

1 Is the Egyptian Passover a tradition for generations?
No, and again no. Your words are meaningless, you bring verses as proof that the Egyptian Passover has existed for generations?!?!
You didn’t leave the house on Passover [-before the Corona era…]?!?!
Was there a time when the Israelites observed the Egyptian Passover???!!!
”Where did I disagree? I said that the halakha was written for its time. There is no dispute about it…. There is the Torah.”
I don’t understand you! During the time of the Ten Commandments, did they not leave the house on Passover? After the destruction of the Temple, did they sacrifice on the platforms?!?! Did they smear blood on the doorposts?!?!
Please elaborate on your strange position [Is the fact that they haven't done it until now misleading [in your opinion], or was the law different then?]

2. This is not related to the main discussion - I see no reason why there shouldn't be an obligation to build a court - Maimonides rules as an obligation.
Why aren't they raising this issue?!?! About the most important commandment?!?! And I expect an answer on this also from the rabbi who for some reason this time decided to maintain the right to remain silent in everything related to a substantive answer.

הפוסק האחרון replied 5 years ago

Dvir.
The fact that sacrifices are a substitute for the sacrifice is from the Torah, not from the Rambam. The Rambam did not write the Torah.
If the situation remains such that the sacrifice does not disappear and people will need sacrifices, then if they build the Temple and the destruction of the Temple will occur again.

Nur.
What is not clear? The people of Israel did not keep the Torah and for that they were punished.

It is written, “And you shall keep this thing as a statute for you and your children forever.”
And it is written, “And you shall keep this service.”
This refers to the Passover of Egypt, which must be kept forever. And it is impossible to keep these commandments without a Passover sacrifice.

If God wants a temple, he will send a prophet to order it and its new location, which he will choose, and of course he will have to convince the government to build a temple.
Or you will seize power yourself and build yourself a temple. And offer yourself sacrifices.

God is not interested in this.

נור replied 5 years ago

Deaf talk.
Should one shed blood and not leave the house?
If so, 1. Why didn't you do this important commandment [or did you?!]. 2. Clearly state that you disagree with Chazal, and believe that the Egyptian Passover was said for generations. There are countless proofs from Chazal on the subject, if I understand that this is your opinion, I will bring verses that say that the Egyptian Passover for generations is different from the Egyptian Passover.
The baseless, crooked interpretation - ” the people of Israel did not keep the Torah and for that they were punished” does not free you from facing reality.
If the commandments exist only when there is a Passover sacrifice, then in order to sacrifice a Passover sacrifice, a Temple is needed, because sacrifices are forbidden on high places.

This still does not answer the clear ruling of Maimonides in favor of building a court, which for some reason the great Posk and Rabbi Michai ignore!!!!!!!!! Maybe it really is more pleasant to engage in philosophical questions,
than slaughtering cows that it is not clear why God did not say that in our time it is not necessary.

דביר replied 5 years ago

Where does it say in the Torah that sacrifices are a substitute for sacrifice?

הפוסק האחרון replied 5 years ago

For example,
And they shall no longer sacrifice their sacrifices to the hairy ones who are their fornicators
But it goes much further than that. Anyone who has a real desire to slaughter a sheep is considered non-Jewish.

הפוסק האחרון replied 5 years ago

Noor.

Why are you involving Chazal in this matter? What Chazal said is from the rabbis 🙂
To know what the Torah said, read the Torah. Don't ask me. And you will discover that there are verses in the Torah from which it follows that the Passover sacrifice includes the rest of the rules that Moses told them in Egypt.

And stop with your urge to worship idols. And the Passover sacrifice has nothing to do with the Temple.
Just as today they do the burning of leaven near the houses. So the Passover sacrifice should have been done over the fire. Near the houses.

It is also quite obvious (given that you have an urge to slaughter sheep) that you have no idea why the Egyptian Passover was even needed in the first place.

נור replied 5 years ago

It's hardly funny. Say clearly, "I disagree with Chazal and believe that sacrifices are made on high places," even if it is true, as you say at length in the words of Rabbi Michi regarding the formal authority of Chazal and according to which the law is determined. The verses are also clear.
Far be it from us to rebel against the Lord and to turn back from this day on, building an altar for burnt offerings, for grain offerings, and for sacrifices, besides the altar of our God, which is before His tabernacle.
The people alone sacrifice on the high places, because no house has been built for the name of the Lord until those days.

Even the righteous kings of Israel who abolished the high places are nothing but wicked. And you alone are righteous.
But as stated, there is no need for this [and it is not really clear from the verses that you were righteous.] Since the authority of the Sages determines the law,
Or are you preparing for a Gentile who wishes to sacrifice that is permitted on the high place [does he wish to sacrifice because of the urge for sheep? It sounds like you understand this]

The obligation to build a temple is also formally established and is also written in the Torah: ”And they shall make a temple for me”,

P.S. I just don't understand why there's so much outrage against the Temple. The laws in the Torah are not understood, [and Passover is one of them], and there are many wise regulations without which life is easier.

הפוסק האחרון replied 5 years ago

I disagree with no one.
You say that I say things that I never said and that I generally think the opposite.
Which means that you do not understand what I am saying. This is what happens when there is a lot of urge to slaughter.

The Passover sacrifice is not about altars or altars. And there is no connection. And because of your attraction to it, you do not understand.

If the laws of the Torah are not understandable to you. Then before you go about fulfilling your urge to slaughter sacrifices, start trying to understand them. You will not be surprised, He is not far from you, and He is not far from you.

נור replied 5 years ago

It is right that there is no sacrifice on the Egyptian Passover.
Today there is no Egyptian Passover:
”The firstborn and the tithe and the Passover, are light holy things. They are slaughtered everywhere with alms, and their blood is charged with one gift, provided that one gives it in proportion to the essence. They sleep in eating them, the firstborn is eaten by the priests, and the tithe by each person. And they are eaten throughout the city with every meal for two days and one night. The Passover is not eaten except at night, and it is not eaten except until midnight, and it is not eaten except by those who are called upon to it, and it is not eaten except by those who are left over.
The authority of the Sages is binding even if they made a mistake in interpreting the Torah [I personally tend to think that they were not wrong. They knew the rules of the sermon a little better than we do]

The same applies to the construction of the temple.

Stupid rants and accusations about lust, without a logical explanation of what actually happened, are not worth the time they spend writing. Even if they are by the most bored person in the world.

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