Secular society versus religious society
Some argue, like Ben Shapiro, that beyond the fact that religion is right, there are good reasons for society to be religious, because a complete society without religion cannot function properly because morality in this society would be subjective and it would spill over into postmodernist plays, etc. In fact, according to him, it is good that people believe in Christianity (but for some reason he is not comfortable with Islam). On the other hand, he ignores the fact that his own religion (Judaism suffered a lot from Christianity, including all the Crusades, the Inquisition, etc.) only shows that even a religious society can cause injustice. In addition, we can give an example from murderous Islam, where a society run by a religion gives rise to terrorist states and religious dictatorships. In my opinion, what holds society together today morally and what has advanced the Western world at least is precisely the secular gospel and the concept of secular individualism. In any case, you wanted to know whether the rabbi really thinks that a Christian religious society that exists according to their morality is better or that a moral society can exist without faith. Religious
I don’t know how to determine that. But the examples you gave are not necessary at all. This debate cannot be decided, so there is no point in entering into it.
I would be happy if you could explain why exactly this cannot be decided. I was sure you had a decision, as with most issues.
*Will explain
Because these are general comparisons that change with the times. When you give me examples from the ancient world, you can hang them on many other changes except that there was no secularization. During the Holocaust, there were Christians who saved Jews with real dedication and there were many secularists who did not. These are empty and pointless arguments.
It's a really vague topic and I don't intend to take sides. But what you said about the "gospel of secularism" seems wrong to me. It's a very popular claim that I think comes from a misinterpretation of the historical correlation between secularism and morality. And the truth is not only a misinterpretation but also an oversensitivity to a small part of the timeline. Morality and humanism began to gain momentum at least a century or two before secularism, and it is precisely now with secularism that it seems to be going in irrational and unbalanced directions.
It seems he* is going in the (moral) directions.
The argument of Ben Shapiro and others is that the foundations of secular morality are based on religious ideas, so that in the long run if we omit the religious basis, all secular morality will collapse. (After all, from a purely materialistic point of view, objective morality has no meaning, because it is a spiritual concept. It is not measurable in a laboratory)
The moral progress of the world is not related to secularism at all, but is based on preferring individual freedom over other ideals, and cultivating a moderate mentality instead of an extreme one. The USA is the one that spread the gospel of freedom and human rights, and it was founded by religious people, some of whom are devout. In contrast, countries like Germany, the USSR, and China that preferred other – secular – ideals, bypassed the atrocities and evil of religious regimes on the right.
Howie says: This is not a matter of secularism, but of individual freedom and moderation, which may integrate nicely with a spiritual-religious approach.
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