The authority of the Talmud

The Knesset (and foreign works) requires it because we have accepted it upon ourselves, and the Talmud also because God wants it? What is the difference between a halachic error in the Gemara and a “Z”? We have accepted both of them upon ourselves, and on the other hand God opposes it.

The Blessed One does not object to our carrying out the decision of the Sages. On the contrary, it is not in the sky and this is precisely what He wants us to do. However, this was not His intention from the beginning when He commanded this particular commandment. But in the Book of Zechariah He objects to our obeying it. And from another angle: obedience to the Sages stems from the Torah commandment to “not turn aside,” that is, from the will of God (except that what is renewed here is that the selection of the Sages who have the authority is not only a process of ordination “from above” but also by the consent of all Israel “from below.” See on this in Beit Yishai – Sermons, 315, at length). But obedience to the Zechariah certainly does not stem from that.

So if the Sages decide that there is a mitzvah to work on this and all of Israel agrees (as in the case of the Gemara and its errors), will that be the will of God? What about Tractate Horiot?

I've already explained and I won't go back again.

Ronen - Explain exactly what you mean by "idolatry"?

If you mean "idolatry" which is what G-d did not command us and did not occur to Him, then it is clear that it is forbidden to answer from logic.

And if you mean "idolatry" which is something foreign and renewed from the unknown for some X reason and not necessarily to worship some statue or foreign god other than our God. So the Rabbi explained that it is forbidden "you shall not turn aside" meaning by G-d's will.
Now tell me what the problem is with Tractate Horiot and I will try to give you an answer according to the Torah.

Rav Micha,

I will quote your words: “The sanctity of the Talmud and the halacha is not in the content but in the framework. Even if the Talmud is wrong and this is not the intention of God, its instructions must be followed. This does not mean that they are correct, but that they are binding. Therefore, their sanctity does not stem from the fact that they are correct, but from the fact that this is how God wants us to act in practice.” And further, “God does not object to our following the decision of the Sages. On the contrary, it is not in vain and this is precisely what He wants us to do. However, this was not His intention from the beginning when He commanded this particular mitzvah. But in the book he opposes that we listen to it. And from another angle: obedience to the sages stems from the Torah commandment “Do not deviate,” that is, from the will of God ” end of 2 quotes.

It follows from the words of the Rabbi that the sages are permitted to deviate from the laws as they see fit and not according to the Torah. On what basis does the Rabbi determine that the sages are permitted to deviate from the words of the Torah, despite the fact that the interpretation is supposed to determine, as Maimonides ruled, “and anyone who takes the Torah out of its interpretations or deviates anything from the Torah…is a heretic and an Epicurus….

On the other hand, how is it possible that God, the Almighty, gives us the Torah, and commands us and our sages and our judges and all the people of Israel for their generations not to deviate from the Torah as it is written according to the Torah that is being taught… then there is a hole here By His intention, may God be pleased, when you wrote that this was not His intention from the beginning. So that the will of God is more decisive than the will of the sages. And if the sages are wrong, what obliges me to listen to them?
After all, the determinant is the Torah, to which they are also obligated.
I found that Joshua told the children of Israel and all the priests that if they do not want to listen to the Torah - then he and his house will follow the Torah alone!

Ronen - What errors in the commandments did you find in the Talmud? That you think and are sure that we do not fulfill the commandments correctly!

B. As I showed in the Rambam that it is absolutely forbidden and absolutely forbidden without exception for any sage to uproot the Torah even a single letter from it and not to take the Torah out of its simple form - and whoever does this is (in the opinion of the Rambam, may God be pleased with him) a heretic and an Epicurus.

Absolutely not. What I wrote is that we should not worry if they made an unintentional mistake because either way they have authority. If they intentionally disrupt or do what they want, their words have no importance and no authority. The authority to make an intentional mistake is given only in the holy month (you are even exaggerating).

A mistake is a mistake, Your Honor, whether intentional or unintentional. Mistakes must be corrected.

And regarding the authority to make a mistake intentionally regarding the laws of consecrating a month, I ask in order to understand:

Suppose the Sages and all the Dayanim and various authorities, during the First Temple, consecrated the seventh month on some date, and there was a holiday on the first day of the month, for example, Rosh Hashana, and then they later discovered that they were mistaken on one day and the second day was the correct day. What did they do in such a situation regarding the other feast days that occurred in that month?
1. Were they and all the people obligated to make a sin offering for their mistake?
2. Were they obligated to consecrate the second day of Rosh Hashana as the correct Rosh Hashana day, and also the 11th day of the month as the correct Yom Kippur day?
3. If they are truly permitted to make a mistake regarding consecrating a month, why does the Torah “accept” it? Permission to desecrate Shabbat in order to receive the witnesses who “traveled” on Shabbat and left the wilderness of their city to go and testify in Jerusalem.
4. How did we understand from the Torah that keeping Shabbat is weaker than keeping Kiddush, even though it is permissible for those who trust to make a mistake on the day of Kiddush, even intentionally? On the other hand, the Torah will allow witnesses to desecrate Shabbat, which they have made, without permission to desecrate it.

Moshe, this is a question from a long time ago. What I mean in Tractate Horiot is that it is proven there that if the Sanhedrin is wrong, they are not listened to. And then the Talmud. The rabbi now claimed that it is only if they were mistaken. Tractate Horiot explains the opposite - even then it is forbidden to listen to them if it is known that they are wrong. And to your question about what mistakes I found in the Gemara - I did not find any, but the rabbi said elsewhere that there are. Your questions regarding the consecration of the month are not difficult.
1. No.
2. No. If they have consecrated it, they do not change it later, even if they made a mistake on purpose. (Maybe it can be canceled, I do not know. But we really do not have to)
3. When the witnesses go to testify, they do it innocently. They really saw the moon. Otherwise, of course, it is a desecration of the Sabbath. The question is whether the judge will accept their testimony or will they deceive or be mistaken, and that does not make what they did a violation of the Sabbath.
4. I did not understand

Moshe.
There are many halachic rulings in the Talmud. Among them there are probably quite a few errors, as is the case with all humans. A person can say that if he does so, he is not obligated to the Talmud. That is why I said that we are obligated to it despite the fear of errors. This does not mean that the Sages did what they wanted. It also does not mean that they did not make mistakes. But if we do not know of any halachic ruling that is an error, despite the fear, it must be observed. Furthermore, even if we have come to the conclusion that they really made a mistake in some halachic ruling (halachically, not factually), it is binding as long as a person of authority (Sanhedrin) corrects it.
It is true that, as Ronen commented, things are not simple in light of the issue of parenthood (about an error in the mitzvah to listen to the words of the Sages), and this is not the place for this issue. If it is a clear error, perhaps there is a reason not to listen to any methods. I have already written this, and I do not remember whether here or elsewhere.

I assume that they will do nothing. This is what is called even making mistakes and even misguided people. It seems to me that it is not possible to change the calendar retroactively except on the date of the HaRach itself. Therefore, there is no sacrifice for an error because there is no error here (there is no rule of law on the calendar itself that requires a sacrifice, but even if someone were to commit a crime, it would be wrong). This is the correct calendar because the Jewish courts determined it. See Ronen's answers.

Hello, Honorable Rabbi

One more thing, if I may add your comment:

Let's assume that the Sanhedrin themselves established a law, under certain conditions, or in certain situations, to act in this way, and then these "conditions" do not interfere, or are irrelevant, when the law can be changed or what it depends on.
For example, the conditions of Matya and Virka.. which are easily overcome - and which is completely irrelevant.

How could there be no lights in the Rakh starting on Shabbat?

See Rambam, Rabbi of Hala Memariam: According to him, even if the circumstances have changed (the reason is nullified), in the Torah, in their view, the Yad and in the rabbinic Yad are great in wisdom and in number. The Rabbani there agrees with him. Although the Rishonim have already given several examples of how, in a significant change of circumstances, they do nullify even without Yad at all. See many examples in the last chapter of Rabbi Neriah Gotel's book, The Change of Nature in Halacha.

I did not understand the question about the lights.

The month of Ramach begins on Shabbat, how do you inform the diaspora that the month has been sanctified? On Shabbat A, light torches

I haven't checked now. In principle, Shabbat is profaned for the witnesses because they are a condition for the consecration of the month, but not for the announcement of its consecration (see Rambam Kidduh 3:5). So if Shabbat fell on Shabbat, they wouldn't have brought torches, and at most, the people wouldn't have known that Shabbat was today. After all, there's not much point to that, since in the Temple where the torches are brought, they would have known even without torches (because it's near the Ashkenazim). It's just like during the time of the Shluchim (which came after the Shluchim), when until the Shluchim arrived, the people of the place wouldn't have known when Shabbat was, and sometimes it took two weeks. So during the Shluchim, it could have been postponed by one day.

Why did the Minyans have a different calculation than us regarding the calculation of the beginning of the month? That they wanted to disrupt the beacons that we marked as the beginning of the month?

Does the Honorable Rabbi think that the day is coming when we will celebrate only one day, Rosh Hashanah, and every Rosh Chodesh will always be only one day?

And what about the rule that prohibits Passover from starting on Mondays, Wednesdays, or Fridays? Will it no longer be relevant?

When the Messiah comes, will they still allow desecration of the Sabbath by the arrival of witnesses or will they rely on astronomical programs for accurate prediction of the new moon? In order to declare Rosh Chodesh

Are matya and virka in our days indeed irrelevant and are significant circumstances to cause the change you mentioned?

Why is there a difference in the outlook between the Torah and the Rabbis? Everything that the Torah has renewed or will renew has already been said at Mount Sinai.

I don't know who these species were, but it's possible that they had a different calendar (for example, a solar calendar), or that they also had a lunar-solar calendar like ours, but they didn't accept the authority of the Lord and you wanted to disrupt it. Or they just wanted to disrupt it.

I definitely think that's how it should be. Is this day close or not? I don't know. Even today, the method of the Riv that the Rabbis gave is one day.

Regarding this, the Maimonides and the Rabbis disagreed, whether the rules for neither the first day nor the second day of Pesach began with the calendar or whether they also applied at the time they sanctified according to the moon. Someone once brought me some good evidence for this matter, since in the New Testament it is described that with Jesus they celebrated Pesach on a Friday.

I don't know, but I assume that they won't sanctify it like they used to.

Indeed, but they have a different number of people to allow it.

“In prospectus”? I didn't understand. As for your words, none of this was said to Moses at Sinai. In my opinion, these sage statements should be interpreted as normative and not historical statements, meaning that we should treat the innovations as if they were given at Sinai and act upon them (if they were accepted as halakhic) like what was given there.

Regarding the ”Tashkif” this is what was said about your words: “See Rambam, Rabbi, Chapter 2, Commentary on the Book of Mormon: According to him, even if the circumstances have changed (the reason is nullified) in the halacha of the Torah in the Old Testament and in the halacha of the Rabbis in the Old Testament, it is greater in wisdom and in number. ” Due to the changes in the ” in the circumstances..

I understand well your opinion ” to be interpreted as normative statements and not historical” and it was clear to me from the perspective of the Higon, but this is precisely why I ask: Why are there changes in the &#8221poskim” between the Torah and the halacha of the Rabbis - if in any case the innovations are considered or treated or are supposed to be treated as if they were given at Sinai and accepted as halacha. So the question remains. Is there a reason?

So only after I understand the answer to the above question will I be happy to understand the importance of logic in our case from where else to allow (the nullity of taking into account the birka and matia because its time has already passed, it is null and void - it has become obsolete). Why does the halakha make it difficult to re-rule in such a simple case. And why is there no time at all for such things? After all, it is a necessity. The necessity is there really a public interest here in addition to the statute of limitations of the reason for the birka and birka.

What, in the Rabbi's opinion, prevents the determination of one day for Rosh Hashanah? Nowadays..
(From the perspective of some people with this in times because statistically according to the rule it is not Ado Rosh – and considering that this holiday is celebrated for two days, it does actually fall on a day “that is forbidden” to begin with.. But on the other hand, we “sanctify”the second day as well because of this. Strange…

I did not understand why the rabbi mentions the “Christian”Passover” which indeed falls on a Friday. And if this source is reliable, and not a rumor, I would be happy to accept it, because if the ”Christians” celebrated “Passover” it means that they sacrificed on the altar of the Jews. It is possible that we are giving them ”to desecrate”our altar for the sacrifices of “Passovers” Christians who are sick on the wrong day?! This must be strictly forbidden and it is considered a sin because it is a sacrifice not at the right time.
Should I trust this source from the New Testament? The evidence is very good, but the question is whether it can be trusted.

From what I know, the rules were based on the cessation of witnesses and the proof is what I wrote in paragraph 3 of this message. That is, only after

In my opinion, it is very important who these men are - in order to fulfill their punishment for their deception. Their punishment is death. You shall not depart from anything that is prolonged. I wonder why they did not settle accounts with them.. and they could settle accounts with them because they probably went on pilgrimage according to their calendar. And they offered whole and free offerings on their festivals according to their religious beliefs. And if they stoned one of the three who disdained the commandment of Nisukh, then what is the problem with stoning these wicked people who did not obey discipline? B”D “…

To exhaust the justice with the species and to scale them up? Good luck

And regarding the "Christian Passover", know that Jesus was a Jew.

Moshe,
I already answered about the changes in the halakhah. The fact that they should be seen as if they were given from Sinai is after the halakhah was decreed. And if they are changed, then the change is as if they were given from Sinai.

The halakhah requires that a halakhic change be made by a rabbinical council. The reason is to prevent hasty and unjustified changes. What is the problem with that?

I mentioned that what is holding back is the lack of a minyan (the great rabbinical council).

What do you want from the Christians? They mentioned that the Jews celebrate Passover on Friday (they themselves were Jews at the time).

Good luck with the extermination of the species. Just be gentle.

Imagine, Your Honor, if we were to destroy Jesus as a false Messiah or if his mother had been a fool, do you think that if he or his mother had been alive, would Christianity have arisen? The Torah does not want to gently do the opposite. It wants to rip open his mother's belly. I say this in all seriousness. Where were the great rabbis who prevented them from doing such a "trick" to his mother? Or to put him on trial as a prophet or a false Messiah?

Apparently, what I still do not understand is:
Does the rabbi intend to say that there is no great rabbi today and there will be no great rabbi because there is no Temple? If this is not the rabbi's intention, then what is preventing the establishment of a great rabbi in our day?
What was the number of great rabbis who established the rule according to the law: no edu rosh no bedu pesach?

According to Halacha, how can we know nowadays who is worthy of wearing a B”D cloak? And how many of them are needed?

It is clear from your words that you believe the ”Christian” source that the Jews celebrated Passover on Friday? So is this the solution to the question of when they began to sanctify according to the rules, not the head?

How did they get rid of the problem of Matya and Virka in the case that Passover fell on a Friday? Very interesting…

To”wonder– I would be happy if you would go even further and obtain a source for the fact that we celebrated Passover on Friday? Do you also believe the Christian source as honest evidence?

We need “Smochim” and we don't have them. The renewal of the ordination is controversial and even the Rambam who allows it requires the agreement of all the sages of the Land of Israel. Between science fiction and fantasy. In the 16th century they tried and failed.
Matthew and Yarkiah is just one of the considerations. But beyond that, it concerns without a head and not Passover.
A Gentile is faithful when he is the Messiah according to his perfection. Amenaf must be rejected in several ways.

On what basis did the Maimonides determine that the renewal of the ordination requires the consent of all the sages of the Land of Israel?
According to the Torah, Moses “chose” elders and they immediately received a prophecy.
Even if there is a dispute in the renewal of the ordination - what harm can come of it? After all, it will only unite the people of Israel..
Okay, I didn’t say that they shouldn’t consider all the considerations.. What could be more complicated in our day from these and other considerations... Everything can be solved... to decide, and it’s as if Moses had a law from Sinai. Exactly. Especially in determining the tablet of the 2nd apollo, the saggan apollo, the loaded one - so there is no problem with that...

And I wonder what the stronger consideration is in determining the rule not on the second day of Pesach?

Maimonides is actually the most lenient here. Those who disagree with him cannot renew the ordination at all. He determined from nowhere that it was possible by all the sages of the Land of Israel, and you ask on what basis he determined that they were needed? Ask where he decided that it was possible at all.

This is not a question of good or bad. The question is whether it is possible to renew the ordination or not. Even if it is very good, if according to the halakhah it is not possible to renew the ordination then it is not possible. It is very good to divorce an agunah woman, or to divorce a bastard, but without a halakhic argument it is impossible to do so.

I don't ask where the Maimonides decided that it was necessary and possible to renew the ordination because they have this authority from the Torah and did whatever they were told, who? Those who are authorized over the entire Jewish people, of course. And not fragments, fragments. And not tears, tears. We are one people and we need a Sanhedrin.
Generation after generation and its sages, generation after generation and its scribes, generation after generation and its princes, generation after generation and its leaders. This is what is written: Your eyes have seen the nakedness, and in your book all will write.

Even when there was no rabbi, there was a Sanhedrin and they were authorized. He is the head of the whole, it is impossible without him. What we need is to make a rabbi for us in private, but we need to make general leaders for us. And I hinted, according to the Torah, Moses was commanded to choose elders who would serve as part of this whole, Moses received Torah from Sinai and passed it on to Joshua and Joshua to the elders... This is how the Torah passes on, and so does the ordination, it must not be stopped. And even if they wrote the Toshbin and even signed it, it does not mean that it is finished - because there are always innovations in Halacha... and we need to find a general Halacha for all Jewish sects as quickly as possible.

What does it mean that the ordination must not be stopped? It was stopped about 1500 years ago.

Beauty based on what? Who said it was a normal situation to be without ordination? The ordination creates unity, and not rifts among the people… and you did whatever was right in public and did what was right in private.
There should always be elders as it is written in the Book of Ruth that we read recently, where the Lord spoke to the elders….

Wondering - are you still in the wondering category or are you ready to admit what I said and get out of the wondering category. Moses said to Joshua: Would that all the people of the ’ were prophets - notice he said “prophets” and not sages! And of course he commanded this according to the Torah! And the wheel that I am returning to for the third time in this article is that all of this is about the elders whose job it is to authorize and help Moses, of course, in teaching laws and in the innovation of laws that will develop, and this is what is written in the Mishnah Avot and whoever does not believe is an infidel, Moses received the Torah from Sinai and transmitted it to Joshua and Joshua to the elders…. And from this verse and this Mishnah we will understand and be precise and demand that a Sanhedrin is required in every generation and we aspire to this no matter how great the motives are, even though there should be no motives. You will have one Torah and when will this happen when there will be a Sanhedrin and not everyone will make him a rabbi, which is a private matter only. And it is a mistake that there are chief rabbis who disagree with each other. This is an improper and undesirable situation, and this is why the scripture cries out, "My people have committed two evils: they have forsaken the fountain of living water to hew out for themselves cisterns and broken cisterns that the water cannot hold. And as long as the dispute continues and there is no Sanhedrin, it will be considered as if we have forsaken the Lord and the Lord has been hidden from us."

Well? What do you suggest? I agree that a Sanhedrin is needed, but I doubt it's possible. I already said that the Rambam invented out of nowhere that all the sages of Israel together could start a ordination (it's unlikely to happen today), and not everyone agrees.

To believe that it is necessary and to erase all doubts, and from here all that remains is to move forward.. To come up with a law in the Knesset that is approved and accepted according to which a Sanhedrin is elected for us according to criteria that will authorize the elders according to the Torah. And not to address in any way those who disagree - because the benefit that will come from having a Sanhedrin will be very great and will bring unity and I believe that it will even bring back prophecy that God will be with us because God loves unity and is one. Who knows? Maybe when we abolished the Sanhedrin it was considered that we left God. And this is considered a bad thing as it is written, "My people did two evils, but the Sanhedrin did not do them." The people of Israel are torn and divided... Everything needs to be sewn up!

Regarding the law in the Knesset – good luck.

Even if you don't address those who disagree – it won't solve anything, because in their opinion the ”Sanhedrin” will still be a group of people without any authority. You can't say that the benefit from the Sanhedrin is great and therefore it should be established contrary to the opinion of those who disagree, because in their opinion even if you establish it it will be worthless. “Believe and erase all doubts” – I suggest you believe in Christianity and erase all doubts. You can't erase doubts. They are there.

Even if we decide that from now on it is permissible to eat non-kosher, there will be a great gain. I suggest believing in this and erasing all doubts and even passing a law in the Knesset declaring that from now on everything is kosher!

And in no way should we consider the opinion of those who forbid eating non-kosher, because the benefit of everything being permitted will bring unity (and perhaps even bring back prophecy).

You missed the point, and it's a great pity, because now you're becoming a mocker and a detractor of the fact that I suggested a way to bring His providence closer to us. Efforts need to be made, brother. Efforts bring rewards. Our good will in establishing a Sanhedrin is already in the very act of talking about it -> doing something…up there… we are looking for a way to bring the ’ to us and obtain His providence - because His providence will also bring prophecy, clearly, understand?
And as for the doubters and those who disagree, etc., know that you have strayed from my line of thought, this Sanhedrin will think and deal with bringing the hearts of all our brothers in the House of Israel, all the streams and sects, and there will be no sectarian discrimination because everyone will be equal. By the way, also regarding the various koshers - this will be abolished and there will be one kosher for all products. There will be one law and one law. If there were a law that would eliminate kosher food, it would not bring good because eating non-kosher food dulls the mind. And this would not bring unity but would turn us into nations because the people of Israel received laws to distinguish themselves from the nations because we are a special people. And as it is written in the Torah, when we are united even without those who agree with the Sanhedrin, the blessing will be upon those who agree and from them salvation will come as it is written: And you shall keep and do it, for it is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations who will hear all these laws and say, "This great nation is only a wise and understanding people." And if the nations say so, what will they say and understand? See with your own eyes what the promise says: And you, who cling to the Lord your God, are all alive today. See, I have taught you statutes and judgments, as the Lord commanded me. My God: do this in the midst of the land, which you are entering to possess.

You assume for some reason that those who agree are right and those who disagree are just doubts and they will later see that they were wrong. Where do you get that from? You say that salvation will come from those who agree, etc. But that's because you think (for no reason other than that's what you prefer) that those who agree are right. The verses you cited don't prove either side. How are they related?

To wonder
Unfortunately, the rabbi left the discussion for some reason.
I will answer you and I don't know if you will understand. In order to adhere to it, you only need the will and not wait for things to happen on their own. And this is part of adherence, they will answer that those who do not agree will not be able to adhere with the same strength as those who agree. It is easy to bring examples that those who are zealous for it and, according to him, see salvation faster than others. As long as we are without a Sanhedrin, a righteous man in his own eyes will do. We need one law, one judgment, one instruction. Actually, my brother, I don't think you will understand – it doesn't matter - apparently it is beyond that, it is also faith.. and a feeling that only comes together when you combine everything and learn from experience and seek to close things that seem bad in the Jewish religion. I don't understand how you yourself agreed that ordination is needed today, even though everything seems to be provided in the halakha, but you agreed! Who do you think is the one who calls on the name of the ’ and will be saved? What does this mean?

To Ronen,
You said and I quote: ” 2. No. If they have already consecrated, they do not change it later, even if they made a mistake on purpose. (Maybe it can be canceled, I don't know. But they really don't have to)”. End of quote.

Now that I think about your words, I find a small problem that I would like you or someone else to clarify. From your words, it is not clear to me or anyone else why and from where the Sages consecrated Rosh Hashanah for two days. The halakha for generations is whether they are allowed to make mistakes and even not be obligated to make a sacrifice of error, and they and we have someone to rely on. So how does this work out? The Rabbi explained that the Rambel brought from nowhere that it is permissible to renew the ordination, and I ask where the Sages brought that Rosh Hashanah must be consecrated for two days? And why is it still obligatory if I don't even know the reason for this or their reference for this for all generations… The truth is, when I write down the R”ach's consecration, I mean all the first months that are consecrated for two days in our time Especially.

Moshe, are you sure you're with us?
The sages consecrated two days of the month precisely because they have the right to do what they understand. What are you asking?

This is the problem, there is a terrible inconsistency here, Your Honor..

Welcome back, Your Honor, Your Honor, They understand what they are doing and it is excellent, but we have admitted that they had mistakes, it does not matter at this time what they stemmed from, because we are now dealing with understanding the reason for their understanding of the essence of their determination of this right to sanctify two days, Rabbi. The Mishnah explains the Gemara, who is supposed to explain to me the reason that caused their understanding to sanctify two days for all generations. With such confidence.
And I dared to bring Maimonides who wrote in favor of the ordination from nowhere, but that is how he understood it, and you, Your Honor, cracked up at his understanding - what is the reason?
And what is the main reason of the Sages who determined that there is no double Passover according to the law for generations?

Moshe, I understand very well. Very much. I also agree that it is necessary and very important and that there should be a Sanhedrin. I'm just saying that halachically it is not clear that it can be done. You cannot ignore the opinion of those who disagree (I am quite close to their opinion - but that is not related) because even though I also really want there to be a Sanhedrin and I will do anything for it, I cannot invent a ordination out of nowhere. I could also really want 2 to be equal to 3 and that doesn't mean it will happen.

I feel like you don't understand what I'm talking about.
It's not a matter of adherence to the law, etc.
The Rambam who wrote in favor of ordination did not write to ignore the opinions of those who disagree,
He simply dismissed them. In what way? Not that they thought ordination was not needed and he thought it was. They disagreed on the halakhic question of whether or not it was possible to invent ordination out of nowhere.
All of this, of course, has nothing to do with the question of whether it is good or whether it will lead to adherence to the law and prophecy.
Therefore, your reasoning is not relevant to the discussion, although I completely agree with them. Indeed, there should and should be ordination. That does not mean that the opinions of those who disagree, etc. should be ignored. Because those who disagree also think ordination is necessary. They simply do not agree with the halakhic possibility of doing so. Your reasoning could make us want ordination and therefore seek a halakhic way to do it. But there is no.

To the wonderer,
Your help for your words can be taken from the philosopher Hobbes, who said that if 2 equals 3 had political significance, a party would have already been formed that would claim it.

Judging by the state of the discussion here, it seems that it will soon have meaning 🙂

Well, you repeated your words in other words, what does that help?

To Y.D. – Your new words among all those you didn't repeat, it's clear that you're special, I agree with Hobbes, bro - and listen carefully, it doesn't have to be 2 old 3 It's enough that you believe that as a party and its leaders you will succeed in making changes for the better even though there are many who don't agree with your party right now or don't believe in it. The goal is success, not how you achieved success. But bro, there is a connection between the path and success, so our brain says (human common sense), and you have bro, believe me, maybe a little less than me, but you have it. I'll give you all a very thick hint and we'll see who will understand, all the more so that those who don't agree with the ordination are wrong. And it's important to say that even without the hint, it's possible to understand that it's better for it to be ordination from the side of common sense. Because the ordination will simply bring success. And from common sense we'll understand that if that's the case, how is it possible that the ’ Who is wiser than us, will establish laws that prevent us from using common sense? It is impossible!

And we will return to the thick hint: and we will present it in the form of a “riddle” because it is a hint, it was forbidden to do so, but they did it to prevent forgetting. Who got the hint and what is understood from the hint regarding the permission to confer? They will answer what can be done from the hint regarding the permission to confer…. Do not use the brain

What is the solution to the puzzle?

Hobbes – You'll get another clue this is related to: Writing. Dude

Moshe, you didn't understand what I said. You keep saying that it's clear that a ordination is needed, etc. And that those who disagree are wrong.
But *everyone agrees that a ordination is needed*!!! No one will tell you that they disagree!!!
What is the discussion about? The *halachic* question of whether it is technically possible to invent a ordination out of nowhere. And in this, common sense says that it is impossible. Otherwise, why would anyone need to ordination those who come after them? It's possible that anyone who wants to be ordination can simply invent one out of nowhere.

The solution to the riddle is time to make a ’prove your Torah about writing the Toshish”a. Of course, this has nothing to do with this.

By the way, I don't think you understood Y.D. and Hobbes, but whatever.

The difference between the Tosh”a and here is that if it were not written, most of the Torah would be forgotten. Here, the ordination would indeed be beneficial, but even if there were no ordination, no significant harm would occur.

And even if the ordination is so important, even if we use the ”time to do the work of God” it is not clear that we would be able to renew the ordination.
Why? Because the time to do the work of God permits prohibitions such as writing the Tosh”a and pronouncing the name of God, but we have not found anywhere that it can renew the realities of ordination. At most, we can establish a “Sanhedrin” and listen to its instructions, but it will not truly be a Sanhedrin

One last time:

This is what I'm trying to tell you, that the mere fact that there is someone who trusts those who come after him is already a reason to trust such a group to be called a Sanhedrin, and that its instructions will bind everyone.

You solved the riddle, congratulations, and the main point to be learned from this is that if the prohibition of this verse is nullified, then it follows that there is no explicit prohibition to nullify the Sanhedrin that existed, so it is clear from this verse that a Sanhedrin can be established against the opinion of those who do not allow ordination (who do not believe in ordination). This is sound logic, my brother.

Again and again and again, I repeat, it is impossible for the Giver of the Torah to give laws that will hinder the observance of the Torah or prevent goodness, truth, and justice from those who receive it! Because the Torah is for the benefit of man!

And don't say that significant damage will not occur, because you will see how many rifts and divisions there are in the people of Israel. It doesn't have to be like this - and therefore only the Sanhedrin will cut this matter and reunite it! One law for all!

And there is no point in adding!

PS Thank you for agreeing again that it is possible to establish a Sanhedrin and listen to its instructions – I enjoyed hearing this from you, dear brother– I love you!

That's the conclusion!

But the instructions of the group that will be established will not bind anyone! It is time to do it for her’ will not help here. It is clear that one can establish a group and trust it, but it will not be worth anything from a halakhic point of view. And it is certainly possible that the Torah will prevent good from its recipients. For example, the Torah prevents me from eating pork, which is delicious. Unless you claim that what the Torah commands is good - then the fact that it is impossible to invent a smicha from nothing is part of the Torah, then it is good.

And where did you get the idea that the Torah is for the benefit of man? If so, it would have been possible to simply not create man and give up the Torah. Man's purpose is to keep the Torah. The purpose of the Torah is not to benefit me or you.

Moshe – Another riddle!

To the wonderer,
It is precisely in the matter of debate that the party has a certain power. If the law is determined according to the acceptance of the nation (and not just the Talmud but in general, as Rabbi Melamed claims), then it is worth establishing a party that will convince the public that the law is according to the Rambam, and then there will be no room for the divisive system.

Indeed, if Rabbi Melamed is right, you are right. But his words in recent weeks are extremely puzzling.

That the nation will decide that I am the Messiah and that's it…

Actually, in my opinion, he may be right. We note that custom decides disputes. But here it is a bit difficult to say that if the majority of the public is "convinced" (how?) that the Rambam is right, this is considered custom and "a man who has no right to speak" is not a man.

To the wonderer – I wish you mental liberation – Your eyes do not see from your head… In your argument it is clear that you only want to weaken my proven and very logical conclusion. Whoever does not unite the people of Israel will himself be torn and separated and torn and known from the people of Israel. Measure for measure.
Hobbes accepted a “riddle”: Who entered the Land of Israel from the Exodus from Egypt?

Moshe, I congratulate you as above.
The discussion is exhausted as far as I am concerned

To wonder, are you sure about what you wrote here: “And where did you get the idea that the Torah is for the benefit of man? If so, it would have been possible to simply not create man and give up the Torah. Man's purpose is to keep the Torah. The purpose of the Torah is not to benefit me or you.”

I wanted to find out if you disagree with the idea that the Torah is a kind of manufacturer's manual?

Manufacturer's instructions for what?

It seems that if it was given to man, then it is a Creator's instruction to man what he must do in order for it to be good for him.

No. How did you conclude that? G-d created the world and its people, to give them a Torah with all sorts of annoying laws to benefit them? He created us in Paradise and that's it.

But this is what is written in the Torah:
Jeremiah 7:23
For this word I commanded them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be my people, and walk in all the way which I command you, that it may be well with you.
Deuteronomy 12:28
Keep and hear all these words. That which I command thee, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee for ever: when thou shalt do that which is good and right in the sight of the LORD thy God.
Deuteronomy 6:18
And thou shalt do that which is good and right in the sight of the LORD thy God: that it may go well with thee, and that thou mayest go in and inherit the good land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers.

Well? He says that if we do His commandments, He will do us good. Does that mean that the Torah is the “manufacturer’s instructions”? Maimonides already explained that only women (??? This was probably the case at the time) and minors say to worship Him for a reward

Wondering - I have evidence that you have lost your way. If I have to explain to you that if G-d wills us to do His will, then it is clear that the Torah is the manufacturer's instructions, so you have lost yourself, not just lost your way.
And I will say more than that, if a washing machine manufacturer tells you its instructions so that the machine will last longer and not break down, then of course you will listen to the manufacturer. Since this is a human product, there are manufacturer's instructions. What were you thinking?

As usual, you slander and speak confidently as if you are at least Einstein talking to the ancient man, but whatever.

You claim that God created people and gave the Torah so that they would be good with the help of the instructions. Interesting. Can we know why the Gentiles are not obliged to observe the commandments? Is it suddenly not useful for them?

I suggest that we end this delusional discussion

On the contrary, my brother, if I hadn't learned something from the discussion here - I would have given up long ago. To your credit, I found the evidence that confirmed what I knew and investigated to confirm it. And there really is no point in dwelling on what has already been proven.

The truth - don't misunderstand, in your words you demand justified explanations and at the right time. You attack in a way that is not the most beautiful, and it is a shame.
I will explain from what I know, the people of Israel are a united people, that means one depends on the other, and that is what makes everyone good. The question is asked, what is good in general? Good is peace and security. God said that in this world there will always be people who are poor and sick and homeless and unemployed and so on, and this is because God wants us to support them and this is the greatness of unity. Loving others and caring for their needs to the best of our ability.

The Gentiles are obligated by the logical commandments and not obligated by the Torah commandments because the covenant was made only with the people of Israel. The commandments can benefit them if they convert, and in fact, conversion begins with them keeping the commandments and the Torah and receiving a reward for it - in fact, this is the existential purpose of the people of Israel to be a light to the nations - that the nations will imitate us and keep the Torah.

It is also clear to me that the discussion has been exhausted, and if there is anything else you want to ask - I will gladly answer, brother

It is important for me to note at this point that because the Lord said seven, there will always be people who are sick, injured, missing limbs, disabled, blind, etc., etc., and this is a sign that the Messiah* has not come. And we should strive for him to come. How? Simply keep the commandments and ask the Creator to hasten the redemption and all that that implies.

* Jesus is also not the true Messiah because according to the Christian faith, the death of Jesus caused all diseases to disappear and all people to be healed and all sins to be erased for all generations, and this is not at all the case.