חדש באתר: מיכי-בוט. עוזר חכם על כתבי הרב מיכאל אברהם.

The perception of the greatness of the Creator is pure rationalism.

שו”תThe perception of the greatness of the Creator is pure rationalism.
asked 5 years ago

Hello and good evening.
In the past, you wrote that the issue of the soul’s survival, reward and punishment, and the resurrection of the dead is not seen as essential to faith, and that you specifically do not see these things as of great importance in religious faith (the essence of which, according to your teacher and Rabbi Leibowitz, is simply that it is necessary and that is it). Is this in fact, excuse me, not anti-rational, in a definitive way?
And I’ll explain what I mean:
In many of the writings and lessons of rabbis, such as Rabbi Sharkey, Rabbi Sharlo, and Rabbi Lau. Aviner, Eliyahu Rahamim Zeini, Rabbi Melamed, Rabbi Tzvi Tau, Rabbi Mordechai Lau, Rabbi Jonathan Sachs, Rabbi Micha Goodman, Yoav Sorek, and the like, and sages who are no longer with us (such as the Maimonides and the Maharal of Farg, Rabbi Avraham Yehoshua Heschel, Shadal, Baal HaSulam, the Rebbe of Leibowitz, Rabbi Yehuda Amital, Rabbi Aharon Lichtenstein, and Rabbi Rabinowitz, all of whom are remembered as righteous men. And studies show that Heschel was meticulous in keeping the commandments and came to the seminary. It is worth bringing the Conservatives closer to Judaism. I say in advance that I know that his name is associated with the Conservative stream among most Torah and mitzvot observers). A statement is presented in various formulations that part of perfection is in knowing the Creator, in believing in the Creator, and in His work. It is also the assumption that He is a God of justice, who wants to do good to His creations. And lead the world to a state in which there will be justice and integrity. (A reformed world). And yes, in the Gemara we found that God does not deprive any creature of its reward* and a famous midrash on the tears of the bastards. Isn’t this a deviation from simple logic? Not to assume that with certainty. If God exists and gave His Torah. And also commanded us to live according to codes of limitations. And sometimes suffer because of them. We will not be rewarded for it in the end? (Or to formulate an extreme example: Does thinking that God will allow a Holocaust murderer. A light guard as severe as a severe one to suffer and be in a state of despair his whole life. And to assume that there is a possibility that in the end he will not receive any reward, does not make God out in such a way. In a ridiculous way? Is not this very claim about forgiveness. A desecration of the name of Heaven. Which also borders on the prohibition of cursing God? That the children of Noah are killed on the way?
Or alternatively, the thought that the wicked who commit acts of iniquity all their lives and enjoy the present without any hindrance will not receive punishment in the end does not make God anarchic? And ridiculous. Doesn’t this give the impression that the world is governed by laws in which the wicked win and survive, while the righteous who follow God’s ways lose? Is there a greater mockery of the Creator than this? Has the Rabbi, in all seriousness, without cynicism or mockery, not thought that it is possible that his faith and his service to God are:
A. Clearly irrational and contrary to common sense?
B. And again, I’m not kidding at all. They certainly constitute a Torah violation of desecrating the name of God. And they come really close to violating the prohibition of cursing God. In my humble opinion.
 
I know that the rabbi usually answers that this topic does not interest him and should not be a motivation for serving God. But the thing is, in my humble opinion, it is not a motivation or a tool for serving God. Rather, it is a truly essential part of loving God and the duty to serve Him.
Regards.
The Complete Monasticist.
 


Discover more from הרב מיכאל אברהם

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

Leave a Reply

0 Answers
מיכי Staff answered 5 years ago
First, Leibovitz is not a teacher or a rabbi. Not that it matters. Second, your arguments may be true, but that doesn’t make them a core belief or something important. 1+1 can’t be 3 either. And yet 1+1=2 is not a core belief.  

Discover more from הרב מיכאל אברהם

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

,המונתאיסט השלם replied 5 years ago

I didn't understand
If the arguments are right, then you are indirectly blaspheming the name of God in public. You are violating the Torah prohibition of blessing Hashem and, more than anything, you are making Judaism seem like a sect that is disconnected from reality. As you say about your opponents from the Haredi wing
So how is this not important and not essential exactly?

א. replied 5 years ago

1+1 cannot be 3. But 2+2 can be 0 in modular arithmetic. And just as it is an arbitrary game with agreed-upon symbols that man has concocted in his mind, so he deceives you. But the difference is that in arithmetic this is proven here and here, as opposed to his words here which are based on faith. You have reached the correct conclusion, already stated by the sages: “Why is a righteous man evil and good for him?” I answer according to the Gemara in the Megillah [13:2] because he is righteous. This does not mean that I justify the way of the wicked, I only mean that the wise man has his eyes in his head, like Jacob who was a brother in deceit with Laban, and the fool walks in the dark.

א. replied 5 years ago

And all of this is in earthly terms. In Torah terms, I justify the path of evil.

מיכי Staff replied 5 years ago

Now you've moved on to new songs. First you talked about how all of these are necessarily principles, and now you're moving on to claim that it's important to discuss this because otherwise it would be blasphemy. That's a different discussion. It's worth deciding what exactly your claim is, otherwise it's difficult to have a discussion.
I'll tell you briefly my opinion on both issues. In my opinion, there's a good chance that these three (the permanence of the soul, reward and punishment, and the resurrection of the dead) are correct. But I don't see them as principles of faith. They are the result of more or less logical considerations, and not necessarily a tradition from Sinai. Some of these considerations are what you wrote here.
In my opinion, this discussion is not very important, since we have no way to decide it. Whether it's true or not, arguments can be raised here and there for this. Is it a principle that came down from Sinai? I don't know how to prove this. Anyone who thinks that without it, God Almighty looks bad – should adopt it. There's no reason to do so.
In the margins of my remarks, I will just note that even according to your view, God is not doing anything. The Holocaust also happened according to your view (unless you deny the Holocaust). You too should have an explanation for why it happened, and why righteous and blameless people were murdered there without distinction. I did not invent the question of a righteous man and a wicked man and a wicked man and a good man. If you think that the resurrection of the dead or the apocalypse explains this, then good for you.

הפוסק האחרון replied 5 years ago

Whoever speaks of the greatness of the Creator ultimately speaks of his own greatness.
In short, this stems from stupidity and arrogance.

המונתאיסט השלם replied 5 years ago

I did not claim that these are principles of faith in the sense of labeling in the sense of Epicurus/infidel and happy that he does not believe in them is not a Jew. Rather, he is lacking in common sense if he does not believe in them and halakhically it is indeed possible that he indirectly causes a prohibition of the Torah.
The Holocaust, the Crusades, the pogroms, the murders. Not only of Jews but of all inhabitants of the world are explained by the fact that in the Hereafter there is reward and punishment. And these things are done because man has free choice. And through these events man can advance to understand the source of evil and fix the world in the kingdom of enough. The question of suffering is ancient. But no Jewish or even worldly wise man would argue that there is no justice in the end. And that the path of the wicked has succeeded without justice and without a judge.
I really do not understand what the relevance is whether it came down from Mount Sinai or not. For my part, it came down from the moon that the Prophet Muhammad crossed

המונתאיסט השלם replied 5 years ago

The Last Judge
Shut up
According to your system, every attempt to fulfill and understand the will of the Creator stems from arrogance and stupidity. Then God forbid we become infidels and atheists and that's it. Nihilistic humble people who know nothing

הפוסק האחרון replied 5 years ago

Anyone who tries to understand the will of the Creator is foolish and impudent and an apostate in Moses our Lord.
Moses our Lord came closest and brought the Torah. And that's it. That's it.
Any attempt to understand the will of the Creator other than according to Moses our Lord is an apostasy in the Torah and in Moses.

המונתאיסט השלם replied 5 years ago

It's a shame that the first and last prophets and sages didn't know this. And God sent us the last Posk who explains this to us.

א. replied 5 years ago

The Complete Monastic.

Do you have an explanation for the ’righteous and evil to him, wicked and good to him’?

הפוסק האחרון replied 5 years ago

Of course they knew that.
You don't understand that they knew that.

מיכי Staff replied 5 years ago

I explained what I had to explain. I see no point in repeating things.

הפוסק האחרון replied 5 years ago

The explanation for the righteous and it is bad for him is the wicked and it is good for him.
If he were truly righteous, there would be no situation of wickedness and it is good for him. (The righteous would take care that he was not wicked, or that he was not good)

המונתאיסט השלם replied 5 years ago

All the best
I hope truly.and calmly.that your rationality will not stop only at the things your eyes see.And you will learn.To become a complete and profound rationalist in the full sense of the word.Your seminary will increase in students and your service to God will also be at a high level.
A.

Indeed
Reward and punishment are the correction for the injustice in this world

המונתאיסט השלם replied 5 years ago

A.
And evil in general is caused by free choice that enhances the ability to develop and choose good even when everything around is dark. In the sense that in a place where there are no people, there will be no one. And with the evil that is slowly revealed, man also learns to progress and know what is good. On the way to redemption. As Rabbi Zetz”l wrote in the light of war

Dear Posk
Academic conspiracy theories interest me, Grandma

א. replied 5 years ago

The Complete Monastic.

So let me tell you that your thinking is distorted. Even if there were clear evidence that there is evil, it does not at all justify the injustice in this world. What is a sadistic game? Secondly, evil is caused by free choice but encourages it. Like it or not, man is the landscape of his surroundings. So he slowly progresses towards evil.

הפוסק האחרון replied 5 years ago

What conspiracy theory? If someone is so righteous, how is there evil in the world? Why didn't the righteous man tag so that there wouldn't be evil? So apparently he's not so righteous and that's why he's being punished.

Reward and punishment in this world. That's according to the Torah.

המונתאיסט השלם replied 5 years ago

Dear A.

The problem of evil is caused by the fact that man has free choice. Man from the moment of his creation in the Garden of Eden could not have sinned and he and all his descendants after him would have accepted the Torah, creating peace in the world without the evil inclination. Because man sinned. And the filth of the serpent spread in the world. Thus the ability to choose evil arrived - and since then humanity has had the ability to choose - for the nations of the world to stop the wars, the massacre and murder, the robbery and theft. the violence and prostitution. And to settle the world in ways of integrity. - Then the world is a garden of heaven. And for the Jews to invest their lives in studying the Torah and adhering to the Creator of the world and not being dragged after errors. If the children of Noah and the children of Israel. had done their duty faithfully - there would be no evil in the world.

המונתאיסט השלם replied 5 years ago

The Arbitrator
In my remarks on conspiracy theories, I referred to your statement that the first and last sages held to your approach, but hid this.

א. replied 5 years ago

The Complete Monastic.

She herself Why did He create it with a great deal of evil? Second, God set a trap for Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. So who are you complaining about? Regarding what you wrote about the nations of the world and the Jews, it does not depend on their choice or on the study of Torah on the part of the Jews. It depends on correcting the environment from the root and the influences that cause that evil. For example, the Torah says that whoever desecrates the Sabbath must be stoned, do you really think that is right? It is sick and needs correction.

הפוסק האחרון replied 5 years ago

That is the descent of Kamia, Dr. Hanina, said, "The great God, the mighty, the terrible, the mighty, the strong, the strong, the strong, the sure, and the honorable, waited for him until the tenth day, because he had finished, God, we have finished it, all of us, praise your way, why do I have all of you? I am the one who said it, or not? Did Moses our Lord say it in the Torah and with him the people of the Great Assembly and taught him in prayer? They were not able to say it to him, and you said all of you, I am the one who finished." A parable about a king of flesh and blood who had a thousand thousand gold dinars and they were flattering him for money, and was it not a disgrace to him:

Leave a Reply

Back to top button