The podcast on private supervision
It seemed that Rabbi Yochai had difficulty formulating and defining his own arguments, and I wanted to try to bring up things that he himself seemed to have a bit of an idea for.
A. It is possible to argue that God intervenes by influencing the mentality or consciousness of the person, since these are not deterministic according to your view either. For example: a sick person who prays, God improves his mental state, which affects his physical state (the connection between mind and body has already been confirmed in many studies). In such a case, it is also possible to explain what intervention is through the laws of nature. Based on his physical state alone, the person should have died, but the metaphysical influence, which is outside the laws of nature to begin with, is what created him.
on. What is your assertion based on that people think like you on this issue even if they don’t say it? After all, people live by this belief, especially when it comes to the settlement of the Land of Israel and God’s intervention in the establishment of the state, etc. It seems that it goes beyond just “thinking like that.” It’s part of their lives.
third. You asked him why he is more impressed by the cases of salvation of the people of Israel than by the disasters. And the answer to that is simple: When a whole and strong army arrives with the aim of destroying a weak and persecuted people, the natural situation is that they will succeed in doing so. And if they did succeed, there is no impression of intervention here. What is not so when a people is surrounded by 4 large and powerful countries that want to destroy it and it manages to defeat them in 6 days, the impression is that there is intervention here.
third. You mentioned that everyone agrees that there used to be more interference and it was reduced, and in any case, how do we know that it didn’t disappear completely? But the question is also the opposite, how did it disappear? If you also agree that there was a phase of more hidden miracles, there is no way to identify a phase in which they disappeared. That is part of their essence: they are hidden. Especially since, as mentioned, there is an indication of interference with the miracles of the people of Israel, and especially since the research surrounding quantum mechanics has not yet revealed all of its effects, and especially since you also agree that there may be sporadic interferences. So what is left of this opinion beyond a gut feeling of: I don’t feel there is interference?
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A. Inaccurate. God does not intervene in the choice. As you yourself attribute the emotional effects to a topographical structure that is on the rise, and then the choice becomes more difficult. God lowers or raises the structure but leaves the choice in the hands of man. As He “heavily hardened Pharaoh’s heart.”
Even if we call this intervention in nature (the definition is not the point here), there is a significant opening here for private providence, where you also believe that it is not legal.
B. No one said that in most cases there is no intervention, or at least in most cases there is no way to foresee intervention, the discussion is about the great processes that the people go through. As Rabbi Zvi Yehuda claimed, God has revealed himself through history.
C. Indeed, if there are cases in which the loss exceeds what seems natural, this would be evidence of intervention just as much as the victory constitutes evidence. In any case, from what I know, Hamas did not defeat us. A mass massacre by thousands of bloodthirsty terrorists is not surprising in any way.
A. What you are describing is a complete change in the laws of nature. The topographical environment in which we operate is a product of the laws of nature.
B. I also agree that sporadic involvement is possible. But there is no way to discern it. Neither in major nor minor events. To the same extent you can argue that he only intervenes on the days of the equinoxes for people whose names begin with the letter H-K.
C. Yes, October 7 was a normal event. Quite expected. You can always insist. To health.
Yes, the difference between major and minor events is just like the difference in the letters of a name.
7.10 was unexpected due to our lack of knowledge. In retrospect it is very understandable.
I return to your first response “I think this possibility was raised by him, and I have explained here more than once why nothing is gained from it. There is still interference in nature here.”
I have read and heard it from you many times, and it is not understandable to me. You present only two possibilities: either God changes the laws of nature, or he does not.
Why don't you address a third possibility: He changes, but not in a way that people will see it (so as not to harm the choice). Therefore, he can create clouds in the middle of the ocean if you have no documentation, and he can cause different choices of people.
Because there are no more than two options. Changing the laws of nature without us seeing is also changing the laws of nature. If you have read and heard many times, then I have explained this more than once.
You can of course assume that He is hiding from us and repeatedly intervenes without us noticing. Cheers. You also have an explanation (so that He does not contradict the choice. For some reason in the past it did not bother Him). Cheers. You also ignore the words of Chazal about prayers for deviation from nature, as I have explained more than once. In any case, you cannot point to any case in which there was divine involvement, therefore various statements by G-d; according to your opinion, they also have no place.
But I have really exhausted these discussions. They have been held here dozens of times.
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