The rape advantage
Asking on behalf of a close friend.
My friend grew up in a Haredi home, was educated in prestigious institutions, was one of the most enthusiastic in the yeshiva, and when he got married, he diligently studied his Talmud in a rabbinical school. His home is Haredi in every way, and his teenage children receive an excellent Haredi education.
In a moment of frankness in one of our conversations about Jewish philosophy, he told me that for several years he has been a complete atheist and does not believe in God and that there is a Creator at all, and of course in the Torah. The reason he continues to live as an ultra-Orthodox is because of his family and children, he does not want to undermine and harm them. What is now defined as ultra-Orthodox heretics.
In one of our conversations, I told him that he didn’t need to worry if he committed a crime, because Rabbi Avraham believed that he was a heretic because he didn’t believe in God. Not that it made much difference to him…
Then we got into the discussion of whether, as an infidel, he is entitled to a reward for keeping the commandments (not that it bothers him because he doesn’t believe there is a reward at all…), and I argued that being a forced man is only an exemption from offenses, that rape is mercifully a taboo, but he will receive a reward for the commandments he keeps because he actually keeps them. Since he lives as an ultra-Orthodox, he keeps many commandments even though he thinks they are foolish acts.
Is it possible that this is so? If so, his place will be in the Garden of Eden before the great righteous, he will reach a heavenly court free from transgressions and loaded with sacks of commandments!
I have explained my opinion more than once: the law of commandments is the law of offenses. But perhaps he will be punished for being Haredi, because there what is important is what you did and not why. In fact, the opposite is true, if you understand that this is a distorted life and yet you lived it that way, your punishment from heaven is double.
I don't know the ultra-Orthodox Hanel, but I believe that it is very likely that he is working to destroy himself. So perhaps his only sin is the military's eyes. Besides that, I would love to know what else is distorted to the point of receiving punishment. I agree that the clothing eyes, for example, are stupid, but not to the point of being punished by heaven, as for general education, I don't think you can be punished for that.
I would love for you to enlighten me on what you can be punished for
Morally, it seems that the same person should refrain from performing any mitzvah that others perform, such as Kiddush, reading the Megillah, lighting Hanukkah candles, reading the Torah, and more. And he certainly cannot work in a job such as slaughtering or writing satam in which he actually fails others.
Y.D. – Why? If in his opinion there is no substance to it, then in his opinion he is not wronging others and in his opinion he is not harming anything. The fact that in their opinion he caused them harm means nothing. What matters is his perception of reality.
Y”D, this is a lie. I have written this more than once.
The punishment is for educating children to be parasitized and harmful, and for strengthening a distorted society.
It seems to me to be just simple assumptions of a person's desire for respect, something you wouldn't do to your friends, the moral obligation to tell the truth, and so on.
I have no interest in an atheist doing things that are meaningless to him. I have an atheist friend here at work whose mother died and the religious friends pressured him to say Kaddish as a way of honoring his mother even if he doesn't believe. I told him that in my opinion there is no issue of honoring his mother here. He doesn't believe and that is meaningless to him. On the other hand, if there is a religious matter that I, as a believer, depend on another for technical reasons, I don't slaughter, one person sanctifies for everyone, and more, if that something is an atheist and he doesn't tell me that, it's a real breach of trust. It's not a religious matter. It's a moral matter. Tell me you're not into it and I'll have to manage on my own.
On the sidelines, this is one of the serious problems in Haredi, because the social and personal cost of coming out of the closet is so high, people will prefer to remain secretly atheists and continue to do things they did before. Those who will suffer from this will be the entire society, which will eat carrion and carrion, wear unsuitable tefillin, fail to fulfill the obligation of Kiddush, and more.
So in principle, if the issue of conscription and reliance on the welfare system is resolved, will you stop seeing them as evil?
If all the moral problems were solved, then there would be no moral problems. Surprising, but it's probably true. Except that the moral problems are not limited to conscription and reliance on welfare. There are many other problems like that.
Perhaps I should make another point and accept Rabbi Avraham's testimony. He was a forced laborer because he was born into the Haredi community, which is like a baby being taken captive. When he came to a different conclusion, it was already too late, and so he is a forced laborer again, this time of a different kind.
If he changes his lifestyle and comes out of the closet, he will most likely break up the family and the package, which from his perspective is not a moral thing. It will harm his children and wife for the rest of their lives, especially in a society like Haredi society. So what is his crime?
Is it possible to get a reference to where Rabbi Avraham wrote and explained why the mitzvot he keeps are not considered? An exoneration for a forced laborer is understandable, but why shouldn't his mitzvot be considered, at least in the sense of not doing a mitzvah?
Thank you
I wrote a Milta Davidihuta that was meant seriously. I said that his being Haredi requires atonement, not his offenses. I did not intend to give practical instructions or state that this offense precludes considerations of breaking up the family. That will be decided by someone who knows the situation.
Regarding the article, search here for “You have failed a secular person in a crime”
Do you think that every Haredi person needs atonement categorically? Even righteous people like Rabbi Shach and Rabbi Kanievsky?
They are even more than others. The failures of many.
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