Using a prohibited option to bend negotiations
peace
I assume that halachically it is forbidden to evade tax and also buy on the black market (at a discount). Is it permissible to use the possibility of tax evasion to force non-taxpayers to make a discount?
In detail: A certain person can buy ‘on the black’ at a discount of, say, a thousand NIS. But he is not interested in doing that and will not do it. There is a ‘white’ seller (who sells for 1000 NIS more than the black one) and a certain person wants to tell him, “Give me a discount of 200 NIS or I will go buy on the black one.” The expectation is that, having no choice, the white one will ‘give in’ and discount it. And if he does not discount it, then the truth is that a certain person will indeed buy from him without the discount.
A. Is this permissible from a purely halakhic point of view? And what about other ethical considerations?
on. Obviously, telling a person, “Make me a discount or I’ll hit you,” is forbidden even if there is no actual intention to hit. Is this true and what is the reasoning?
I think this is a moral (of lying and deceit) or halachic problem, not a legal one, but in my opinion not a legal one, meaning not a legal prohibition of theft. At most, there is a kind of tyunuhu and zabin here. I think it is no different from a threat of beating. There too, the problem is moral or halachic, but not halachic, according to the Jewish Law.
In any case, it is clear that this should not be done.
Thank you Rabbi, but I didn't exactly understand
What is meant by "halachic, not legal" and what is halachic, which is a ruling opinion, versus halachic, which is a ruling decision?
The prohibition of khum means that if you did it, it is theft in your hand. In my opinion, that is not here. But there are non-legal prohibitions here (and in my opinion, it is also forbidden according to the law: it is a threat of an illegal step. But you should ask a lawyer). For example, "love your neighbor as yourself", adultery, lying, etc.
thanks
Thank you Rabbi, but from the non-legal prohibitions, am I also forbidden to say, "If you don't make a discount, I won't buy," even though in reality I plan to buy even if there is no discount? Everyday actions that use this basic scare tactic. Do I have to reveal my exact position in every negotiation?!
You don't have to reveal, but you can't lie. If you bargain without saying otherwise you won't buy - that's fine.
Thank you Rabbi. The truth is that this is an innovation that is very difficult for me to implement. A significant part of my work involves bargaining with service providers or goods, and I have not felt any difference in the bargaining process between religious and secular people. Everyone uses explicit threats to avoid the deal. It's a bit like tying my own hands (and being the only one tied, at least that's how I feel. I never thought of it as problematic)
Unfortunately, in many areas you will not find a difference. In this case, I think even secular people should not do this because there is a moral problem here. By the way, for this reason the phenomenon is also found among people who are strict with the commandments in other areas. Their feeling is that this is a moral matter that is not a religious obligation, and they are accustomed to disregarding moral obligations.
I think it is possible to bargain in a sophisticated way without saying that you will not buy. You can speak with an intonation that reflects a state of hesitation.
The Rabbi thought about it and I'm sorry, but if it's "only" a moral obligation and not a halakhic obligation, then I'm not sure an old dog like me can learn new tricks. I understand that this is an irrelevant question because if it's forbidden, then it's forbidden, but can the Rabbi please clarify whether there is a halakhic problem with a standard and accepted lie in negotiations? Halakhic is ironclad as far as I'm concerned.
Well, I guess I asked an inappropriate question. Okay. Thank you very much Rabbi for all the answers and for your patience.
I came to ask about A’ and along the way, the Rabbi dropped the ground even under B’ like an earthquake in the middle of the ocean. “We were saying to women: Gamla is out of the way for my rays – Odni Dahu Lia Gezizan Minya”.
The questions are decent and good, and everything is fine. It is easy for me to give such answers from my home. The person who will implement things in practice on the ground, like you, is blessed and blessed is his share. I hope I will have some share in these good deeds (or in warding off evil).
And as for the proverb, it was said that if a woman is above me, I will be rewarded for selling the horns of my ears, and they will grow into her offspring.
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