Value of simple faith?
Hello, Your Honor,
Is there value in someone who believes in God out of “simple faith” and not out of rationality?
What about people who don’t have a high level of thinking? I personally really like reading your articles and listening to your lessons on faith, etc., but I know many people who won’t understand a word.
If you have already written about this, I would be happy if you would direct me to them.
Akiva
I have addressed this more than once, also in the first issue and in various series. There is no such thing as innocent faith. Every logical argument is based on assumptions, and therefore, in the bottom line, we all start from ‘innocent faith.’ If someone believes because it seems true to them and that is it, it is faith for all intents and purposes, which is no less than a faith based on elaborate philosophical arguments. There are those who do not have innocent faith or who have encountered difficulties and therefore need arguments. Those who do not have difficulties are healthy.
There is a certain advantage for someone who has examined his faith and has also encountered difficulties, since the ‘naive’ believer may not truly believe, because if he had encountered the difficulties he might have abandoned his faith. So the fact that he did not encounter them does not make him a believer. He is an unconscious atheist. But no one has encountered all the difficulties and all the formulations, and therefore this can be said of every person.
Unfortunately, Rabbi Michael is wrong on this matter, as on other matters. Those who are not of a high enough level to know how to throw away the peel and eat the fruit – are advised to stay away from this site as much as possible.
After all, the Torah explicitly tells us that pure and pure faith is the main thing, and so the great men of all generations inform us. What is the commandment “And you shall tell your son” if not a claim of the Torah that the truth of faith must be taught through education? So that you may tell it in the ears of your son and your son”, “And you shall tell your son”, “And it may be that your son asks you”. There are several sources that show that the knowledge of God comes from the parents, not from all kinds of proofs or sublime emotional experiences. With all due respect, no Bible is out of the ordinary.
When you grow up on the Torah and its stories and laws, the Torah becomes the way you think. Even those who are radicalized describe themselves as unable to abandon “religious thinking” completely, not necessarily of their own free will. The difference between education from childhood and discovery at a later age is enormous. The later discovery can certainly be significant, sometimes to a higher degree, but there will always be a side that is not entirely there because there was a period when you knew the Torah from the outside, which someone who is religious from birth will never experience and never will. This component is the component of innocent faith that the Torah reveals to us in the sources I cited above, and it is the higher side of faith because it is more complete.
If you are not knowledgeable enough to reason, you will be tempted by Rabbi Michael’s arguments that tempt you with their logic. That is precisely why it is better for you to stay away from the site until you have studied for a few good years in a good and reputable yeshiva.
It is good that this site is also open to wise hearts who know how to separate the wheat from the chaff and the fruit from the husk. Blessed are you. In short, beware of logic, which seduces like fire. Do not approach it and its ways, and remain in a mind that is clean and pure from logic.
Rabbi Michael, I expect you to try to address the arguments I have brought and even accept them if you find that you are wrong. I do not think that you are a dishonest infidel, but that you are mistaken and have fallen on the path of faith, so I do recommend learning from you to those who are knowledgeable and understand that logic is not everything in life and who are familiar with the words of the Torah about creation. I think I even saw that you yourself admit to your religious errors, but I do not remember exactly where.
I would be happy to address any argument. In your message, I did not notice this type of text (arguments). It belongs more to the genre of preaching and statements. But it is difficult to expect arguments from someone who is skeptical of logic. And someone who makes statements instead of addressing arguments, and at the same time asks for a response to his arguments (which do not exist), is truly a lost cause.
The verses that ’Ish Emet’ brought are irrelevant. They just say that parents are responsible for educating and passing on the tradition. It doesn't say how to do it or how the adult who grew up with it should relate to it.
Rabbi Michi,
Your patience is simply amazing, the way you remain calm and answer all those who preach and blabber with reason.
By the way, I studied in a strictly Haredi yeshiva and I was always the 'infidel' with questions but no one answered me.
I thank God that I came across your website (if it is involved of course 😄) and of course I thank you for all the articles and lessons that you write and give. It is simply a pleasure to read and listen to everyone. Common sense and rationality are what this generation lacks.
Why people who do not have answers to questions are angry with them, this is one of the mysteries that I have not yet solved.
I prefer to live with huge questions, even if it is sometimes unpleasant, than to live with narrow answers.
Thank you, Akiva
Chen Chen. When you meet him, please thank him for me too. 🙂
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