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What do we find?

שו”תCategory: Talmudic studyWhat do we find?
asked 5 years ago

What do we find?
In the Tosafot, Tractate Kiddushin, page 3, page 2 (below):
And the above question is called “Iri” when her father sanctified her and she was innocent and she was guilty of adultery and a defect from the sanctifications that her father had made, which were her father’s, and here is the Lord’s will, and if she was innocent and she was guilty of adultery and a defect from the sanctifications that she had made, which were her father’s, she was guilty and a defect because she was certainly one of her father’s sanctifications, and she was guilty of adultery and a defect that she had made, but she was initially guilty of adultery and a defect that she did not make, and then she was guilty of adultery and a defect that she did not make, and
The details are not that important to us.
This is about three laws, with the first being too different from the third and not being able to teach one from the other. So how can one teach the second and then the third, the second being similar enough but the third not? How can the question of explaining law three depend on the existence or non-existence of law two?


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מיכי Staff answered 5 years ago
You assume that the comparison is based on similarity. But it is possible that comparison is a measure in the Torah that anything that is sufficiently similar can be studied. Therefore, one can study 2:1 and 3:4. Even if in the end there is not sufficient similarity. We find something similar regarding the city of gold. The Gemara in P. Thulin says that we do not find a disagreement from end to end, meaning that one requires sin and the other says it is permissible. There is a threefold disagreement presented, in which one of the Tannaim says it is permissible and the other requires sin. The Gemara rejects the fact that there is a third Tannaim that says it is forbidden by the rabbis, and in this there could be a disagreement from end to end. A more extreme example is given in the KH”I on a builder with tools named Ra”z Meltzer in an article. A builder is a group of parts to create a space (building a house from wood or stones). One consequence is the creation of a space not by grouping parts – a tent. A second consequence is the grouping of parts without creating a space – a mop. This is more extreme, because when you look at the relationship between a tent and a mop (the two consequences) you will not see any similarity between them, even though they are both the consequences of a builder. The similarity between them passes through the father of a builder.

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? replied 5 years ago

What is the connection between a city of gold and building here?

מיכי replied 5 years ago

These are two examples of two distant things that are similar to each other because of something third between them (similar to each of them)

eh replied 5 years ago

In the case of the builder, the basic case is a builder and we must have any case similar to it, and there is no problem with there being two similar cases in different forms - both are similar to the builder. But here the extreme case is the starting point?

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