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Written Torah and more.

שו”תCategory: faithWritten Torah and more.
asked 6 years ago

Hello Rabbi. Thank you for the insightful and even challenging things.
 
In my study of your teachings, in several places, I had doubts about your perception and a desire to clarify and delve deeper into the matter.
A. Maimonides wrote that one must: “Believe that all of the Torah that we have is what was given to Moses from the mouth of the mighty One… and that he is in the rank of a scribe, who is called and writes it all – the words of its history and its stories and its commandments, for this reason he is called a legislator. Every word in the Torah was given to Moses.”
Does the Rabbi disagree with these things? Are there sources in the words of our sages that disagree with these words of the Rambam? And, according to the Rambam, simply every system requires intellectual and research-based foundation. What is the intellectual method by which the Rambam requires a person to reach this belief?
on. This belief, in the presence of Mount Sinai, in the Torah from heaven, in the encounter between God and man, no matter in what form – its essence is in tradition alone. In the acceptance that we received from our ancestors, and as the Rihal and the Kuzari say, that it is a sign and a miracle done to many and cannot be denied. Do you think that tradition in itself is a sufficient tool to reach faith in the Torah from heaven or do we need the faith talent inherent in us? Can a Gentile reach the same recognition and faith in the Torah from heaven according to Jewish tradition as a person from Israel who received it from his ancestors? (And if not, is it because of faith talent or educational default)
C. Regarding the authority of the Sages in the Oral Torah. Simply because the Oral Torah is a human creation that our Sages created. My question is regarding the acceptance of their creation. From your words, I understand that the Sages have “authoritative” validity, not intellectual validity. In other words, it is impossible to determine that this is the interpretation of the Written Torah, that this is how it is correct to issue an equal decree or to judge a matter, but the Sages can determine that we must follow one interpretation and not another, because this is how the Jewish people accepted it. Do I understand correctly? If so, what are the limits of this authoritative acceptance, what is its status in our day? Can a person today rule in halakhic law or establish a court of law contrary to the prevailing halakhic perception in Judaism that is faithful to halakhic law? And also, what is the validity of this acceptance? I recall from the words of Rabbi Kook zt”l that this acceptance has validity from Torah.
Thank you very much!


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מיכי Staff answered 6 years ago
A. There are certainly some of the early scholars who disagree with him on this. Abaza and the author of the Hasidim and others wrote that there are later verses, and Chazal also wrote this about the last eight verses. And they have already stated this more than once. Beyond that, even Maimonides himself doubts in my opinion whether he intended a historical claim and not a normative claim (that all of the Torah has the same status as what was given from Sinai). I assume that Maimonides can base his approach on trust in tradition (especially his optimistic view in several places that something given from Sinai was not disputed, even though it is quite clear that quite a few disputes arose over what was given there, and I assume Maimonides would also agree with this). on. In my opinion, tradition by itself is not enough. It is one argument out of several components that create a whole. See my fifth notebook on the website where I discussed this at length. In my trilogy that will be released soon, it will be discussed in detail. third. You don’t need Rav Kook for this. All of our Torah laws are based on the acceptance of the Sages. The Torah itself tells us almost nothing without interpretations. And yet, a person can and should rule on his own, as long as he is fully competent (see my article here on autonomy in ruling on halakhic law). But he cannot dispute authoritative sources (the Sanhedrin and the Talmud), and he must take into account important sources that do not have formal authority (the first and greatest poskim) and customs. All of these have weight, even if not absolute. Even with regard to authoritative sources, there is an issue at the beginning of the parenting of a woman who erred in the mitzvah of listening to the words of the sages, which deals with the obligation to obey the Sanhedrin that erred. There have been many opinions among commentators on this.

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ערן replied 6 years ago

Thanks.
Regarding G: What about the Beit Din? In the public sphere, it is difficult to say that there is no authority left today, and the last authority is the Talmudic sages. And besides that, why are only the Talmudic sages a source of authority? Why is the way in which the words of the Rishonim, customs, etc., are treated today as a source of authority - and thus the prevailing halakhic path has not made these a source of authority as well, according to our current acceptance?
Forgive me for answering before I read the above article, unfortunately I do not have time for that right now.

מיכי Staff replied 6 years ago

I don't know what the public level is. From a halachic perspective, everyone agrees that there is no authority after the Talmud. This is the case in the Rishonim and the Achriim, and even in the Ram”a in the Shul (which the Sanhedrin chief, P”d 6’ 6), which we refer to as the Rishonim is a substantive and not a formal authority (search for these definitions here on the site).
We did not accept the Rishonim and not even the Shul as a condition of accepting the Talmud. There is no dispute about them, and they do. We accepted that they have weight, and indeed it is necessary and appropriate to give them weight.

ערן replied 6 years ago

On the public level – I mean, for example, conversion. Its validity from the Torah in our day is due to the fact that it is a duty of the Torah to follow it. It is difficult to say that every person who converts and believes that he understands and converts is said to have his conversion valid because of the above. Simply put, there is a public convention – for formal authority even in our day that only a court that is accepted by the public is the one that converts and only it has the above validity. According to this, it follows that there is a convention regarding formal authority even in our day – in matters related to the rule and not to the individual in his home.

In general, I think this convention also exists in matters of gittin and divorce. Although in the days of the sages, the matter was certainly simpler, it was because of the clear familiarity between the people and the limited possibilities of falsification that were possible for their rights. But in our day, with the various developments – if there is no institution to manage this business, any sensible person understands that a completely chaotic situation can arise in these matters. Of course, there are disputes about the institution itself and its boundaries, but apart from occasional Feiglinists who claim that for matters of sanctification, we can “Google it” or all sorts of irresponsible statements like that, there seems to be a widespread consensus that it needs to be managed somehow. If I am being honest, then even in our own day, it must be said that there are formal authorities in areas that can affect the entire public. And just as the public’s acceptance of the words of the Talmud and the words of the sages creates formal authority in the interpretive realm of the Torah, even for a person’s private halakhic life, so this acceptance creates formal authority in ruling in certain areas related to the entire public as mentioned above.

מיכי Staff replied 6 years ago

There is no way to determine who is subject to the law of missionary service. This is an explanation, and therefore I do not specifically link Zaat to a religious institution. Just as every bi”d in any field is three people who sit and discuss, I do not see what is different in conversion. There is a difference in explanation, but not in the law itself. And of course, in conversion and sanctification, there is no agreement on an authorized institution. You are perhaps talking about what is appropriate and not about what is available. No one doubts the conversion or sanctification of a private, obscure bi”d in Mea Shearim that does not recognize the state and the rabbinate, and they do not recognize it.

ערן replied 6 years ago

In my understanding, it is difficult to determine when the law of the mission applies because it is difficult to determine to whom the public consent applies – but do you agree with the hanging of one on the other? That the conversion of a convert in our time depends on the public acceptance of the court – and only this is what gives validity to this conversion from the Torah (after all, conversion was dependent on ordination, in contrast to the court of Mammon, for example, which could rule on certain matters according to the direction of the Torah) and therefore there is indeed a source of formal authority even at this time. This acceptance as formal authority certainly does not exist only with the rabbinical institution, the courts of the haredi communities are also agreed upon by it, therefore even the “dark” court in Mea Shearim falls under it, such is the prevailing perception among the majority who are faithful to the law.

The issue will be with figures who do not act with the consent of a significant religious community, even if they are within Orthodox Judaism, of course it is impossible to prove this, but at least there is concern about this for these conversions.

Besides, if we say that there is no formal authority, what would lead us to cancel, for example, the conversion of a reformist lawyer if it is done in a way that is halakhically acceptable. In my opinion, it is far from saying that this has any validity.

מיכי Staff replied 6 years ago

You're trying to square the circle. There are no clear criteria, but that doesn't mean there's no right or wrong. If in my opinion the Reformers are not worthy of being judged, then there's no reason and no conversion. If someone thinks that way about me, then my conversion won't be conversion in their eyes either. A mess? Right. But there's no other way out. In your opinion, there are no criteria either. So what's the discussion about?

ערן replied 6 years ago

As I understand it, if the validity of the conversion is due to public consent and acceptance, then if any court does not have such consent, then his conversion is not valid even if in my opinion it is very worthy. Because there is no objective truth in this, but rather subjective acceptance by the public. Indeed, there is no clear criterion for defining public acceptance, but there are extreme situations that clearly involve the consent of a minority and not the consent of the whole.

But it is true that even if you do not think so, there is no question of a reform court being invalid on its own part, as you wrote.

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