New on the site: Michi-botA wise assistant on the writings of Rabbi Michael Avraham.

Attached is a link to the WhatsApp group of the Rabbi's students. Everyone is invited.

ResponseAttached is a link to the WhatsApp group of the Rabbi's students. Everyone is invited.
Shai Zilberstein asked 7 years ago

To receive a link to the group, send an email to orenmarg@gmail.com

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1 Answer
Michi Staff answered 7 years ago

This is already the third message on the subject. I suggest you combine them all under one title.

Israel replied 7 years ago

What is the purpose of the group? Can you expand and define it a bit?

pious replied 7 years ago

I just want to point out that there are some of our Rabbanu's students who are in dire straits and distress under the rule of the pious rabbis, and therefore we prevent them from receiving information (information in the language of the rabbis) from WhatsApp, which is not available on the 'kosher' telephone service.
Therefore, one must be careful, in a valid way, to transmit any important information also through the websites, i.e., in the Etra Kadisha of the Law.

Michi Staff replied 7 years ago

Our brothers, the entire House of Israel, who are in trouble and captivity… May the place have mercy on them and bring them out of trouble into ease, and from darkness into light, and from slavery into redemption, in the time of need and in the near future.
And truly, we are told that the place will expel them if they expel themselves. In my experience, bondage, like tango, is usually created from two sides.

Israel replied 7 years ago

Maybe the rabbi will join in? There are discussions there that really need it.

Michi Staff replied 7 years ago

I thought about joining. But now I'm convinced not to. 🙂 I don't want to have discussions on WhatsApp. Both because of lack of time and because that medium is difficult for me (ticking on the phone and without a computer). There's this site for general discussions, and I'm not sure why that group is needed.
I actually tried to be generally passive, but it seems like I can't join via scanning as suggested in the link here. I don't have such a decoder on my phone. Why don't you join like in every WhatsApp group?

Israel replied 7 years ago

It's much more comfortable there, maybe it's worth trying.

Shai Zilberstein replied 7 years ago

Hi Rabbi Michi, I founded that group to study Torah in depth in the style of Michael Abraham, and that issues that we cannot decide on will be made available to the Rabbi here on the blog for review. I don't think it's worth digging into everything you can think of on your own...

y replied 7 years ago

I can send the rabbi a link to the group directly through your WhatsApp if needed.

Michi Staff replied 7 years ago

It seems to me that it is better to leave it as it is, as the saying goes: What is desired, time oppresses.

my father replied 7 years ago

I just opened this link from my phone and it added me in. There was no need to scan a barcode.

pious replied 7 years ago

Following the (disparaging) response of His Holiness the Rabbi, that "the place will expel them if they expel themselves":

Don't judge your friend until you've been there.

It is well known to his honor that the average Haredi family is bound by social, community, family and economic ties to conventions.
If I use the 'no contact' device, I lose my place of study (and the 'Kollel' scholarship), my children's place of study, my livelihood (my wife is a teacher at Beit Yaakov), and I sever ties with my friends, and to a certain extent with my family members.

Would you be willing to provide financial and emotional guidance, advice, and support to me and my family until I can start a new life in a more open place?

Israel replied 7 years ago

I suggest embedding WhatsApp in a prominent place on the site.

Michi Staff replied 7 years ago

This is not a disparaging response, but a completely matter-of-fact one, and my words here should be taken as such.
Two important points:
1. I know the constraints, and I still think people give in too quickly and too easily, and thus let the human savage take over. In my experience, even while living in an ultra-Orthodox society, as soon as I didn't let people dictate norms to me, they didn't do so. Of course, you also need to be willing to pay prices (and of course my prices were lower. I also had family 'outside').
2. There is responsibility even when it is difficult and perhaps even impossible. See Rambam, 1 Kings 59:4 on the people of Shechem and in Tur 67: https://mikyab.net/%D7%9C%D7%A7%D7%97%D7%99-%D7%94%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%90%D7%94-%D7%A2%D7%9C-%D7%A4%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%93%D7%9E%D7%A0%D7%98%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%96%D7%9D-%D7%96%D7%95%D7%95%D7%A2%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%95%D7%90/

Another note. A distinction must be made between two situations: A. You give in because of personal and family difficulties. B. You give in because, from a religious-ethical perspective, you find the Haredi society preferable despite its shortcomings and you do not want to leave.
My words are mainly directed to situation A. But situation B is not completely exempt from responsibility either (because even if the Haredi option is preferable in your opinion, there is room to lie on the fence for the sake of the common good. And this is of course a claim against everyone, not necessarily against you. See point 2 above). I am generally not willing to be in trouble and captive even if it is done for a proper purpose (and I still admit that I would not be bound to the same level by Haredi society).

Aaron replied 7 years ago

"When a trout leaping at a baited fly on a fishing rod is caught and finds that it can no longer swim freely, it engages in a battle that results in struggles, splashes, and sometimes breaking free. Often the situation becomes too difficult for it."
In the same way, man struggles with his environment and the traps that trap him. Sometimes he manages to overcome his difficulties, sometimes they overwhelm him. The world only manages to see these struggles, and naturally misses their meaning. It is difficult for a free fish to understand what happens to a trapped fish."
Karl Menninger –

Michi Staff replied 7 years ago

Indeed. But the trapped fish fails in the opposite way: it tends to understand and accept itself too well.

Israel replied 7 years ago

To the editor: It is a good idea to place the link in a prominent place on the website.

Moses replied 7 years ago

Hello everyone,
Does anyone know if there is a way to connect to WhatsApp without scanning a barcode (i.e. via the computer). This is a 'kosher number', is there a way to open WhatsApp via the computer without confirming on the cell phone?
thanks

Kobe replied 7 years ago

I suppose you can download some kind of additional Android operating system to your computer, through which you can download WhatsApp, and then put your flash number there.
(All this if it is possible in the WhatsApp program to check your Flash number by voice dialing the numbers without an SMS message).

But not sure.

Ofer replied 1 year ago

To the editor: Suggest taking down the first two comments in the thread.

mikyab Staff replied 1 year ago

I downloaded it. Thank you.

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