Morals and Halacha

Rabbi, I still don't understand you. Why do you prefer to go in this direction? After all, it is intuitively clear to all of us (and you are a great believer in intuition) that morality is the highest value we have. Moreover, it seems that the immoral commandments are because the Torah was given to the people in a certain situation at a certain time, and therefore many commandments that contradict morality were changed! An eye for an eye, a stranger, treatment of a gentile, and many more. It seems from research that this is the sequence of things… So you told me that you have difficulty with the commandments that are simply immoral? Is that the reason? So I have two directions that seem reasonable to me and will leave our basic intuition in place:
A. It can be explained that they were created to create a people with their own customs – Kashrut: to prevent assimilation and closeness, impurity and purity – to sanctify the value of life, etc.’…
B. You could say that they are indeed religious values as you claim, but they are still less valuable than morality and they must also take morality into account. Why? Because intuitively that is what seems right to us.
Basically – If the amoral questions don't bother you, you shouldn't be bothered by them being subordinate to morality. So why not subordinate them?!

I don't know what "the highest" means. The world was probably not created for morality, there is a strong argument for that (because morality is to create a proper human society. Don't create people, and there will be no need for it). The commandments also show this, because most of them are not related to morality. Therefore, there is no reason to assume otherwise. Furthermore, morality does not really reject halacha, and in the accepted view even less than what I am suggesting. Therefore, halacha itself screams that morality has no status whatsoever.
You are offering an option that is all arbitrary just to develop a framework and commitment to it. Not convincing.

A. I did not understand the argument that the world was not created for morality because it was possible to create a corrected world and there was no need for it. Even if there are mitzvot, it is not clear why G-d needs them. I remember you citing Rav Kook who says that work is a high necessity – and that there is a matter that G-d wants us to pay so that He can pay – so that is also the answer to why G-d did not create a perfect world and also wants us to elevate the world with morality.
B. It is clear that there are many mitzvot that are not related to morality, but the Lord has no reason to assume that they are above him, unless you have no other way to interpret them, in which case it really is – what will I do that G-d has decreed for me. And the reason for assuming that morality is a supreme value – There are no shortage of sources in the Bible that speak of G-d's morality and also – This is the most basic intuition of all of us!
C. Just because I deviate from the accepted perception doesn't mean it's not true (I learned that from you).
D. I'm not saying that everything is arbitrary – I'm saying that in the mitzvot that I don't understand – like kashrut I give a general reason – to create a differentiated society, but not that I really create angels when I eat a cow and demons when I eat a dog. I also don't understand why this is different from what the Rambam says about the details of the mitzvot – he also claims that the details have no reason, I'm just expanding on his words but not claiming that it's illogical.

A. My assumption is that morality is intended to correct society. This is its definition. Therefore, it is impossible to say that God created the world for morality, since He could have created neither a world nor morality and nothing would have been lacking. Indeed, the claim that work is a higher necessity says that God was lacking before He created the world, and our goal is to complete this lack. Even if He is interested in moral actions for some reason regardless of their consequences (i.e. not for the correction of society), this means that He has goals beyond morality. This is what almost all of Halacha says, and in fact shouts. We are repeating ourselves.
B. I did not say that they are above Him. I asked what “above Him” means. There are moral duties and there are other (religious) duties. Not above, not below, not in front of, or behind. I have no intuition that morality is a supreme value, nor does Halacha. I also do not think that this is everyone’s intuition. On the contrary, most religious people will tell you that halakha trumps morality.
C. Of course. Who said otherwise?! That of course doesn't mean you're right.
D. I've already answered that.
I think we've covered it. If you disagree - that's fine of course.

Rabbi, I'm sorry, but I didn't finish because I feel like I'm missing something in you:

A. The Rabbi is precisely the embodiment of completion – It is impossible to complete it unless there is a lack. If he creates a perfect world, then there is nothing to complete. Therefore, morality is the compass that guides us to complete it. I don't understand why you don't accept this.

Another question I asked, but we've already met here: I would love to understand what sources, other than Rabbi Shimon, say that according to you – Even though morality and halakha are two different categories, morality can still be included within halakhic considerations – I simply don't understand it (I mean sources that show that even though they are different matters). If these are two different values – And you don't have a common denominator to decide what is better than what – Then I don't understand at all how morality can be included in halakha.

Another question: I don't understand how you don't accept what I said about how we see that the sages have changed the halacha knowingly, deviating from what the Torah said is no longer morally acceptable – an eye for an eye, the status of the foreigner, the boycott of our rabbi Gershom, the chalitza, the rebellious son and the teacher and many others – What don't I understand here? If this is true, then we see that the morality that is divine also uproots the scriptures….

Last question: Rabbi, if you really think that there are religious values – how do you relate to mysticism and Kabbalah? Can you refer me to a column on the subject or to a source where you elaborate?

Thank you for the time you dedicate to clarifying the truth of the Torah.

I've exhausted myself. This is a discussion that is being conducted at intervals that make it difficult for me to keep up with what happened here before, and it is also repeating itself. I will answer briefly for the last time.
1. I do not accept this, both substantively and factually. In fact, the halacha is full of instructions that are not moral. In substance, there are other values. Moral fulfillment is itself a different value from morality. Its goal is not to create a proper society but to fulfill the will of God (through moral education). I think I mentioned this possibility in my book as well.
2. I did not understand what you are asking and what all of this has to do with Rabbi Shimon. Everything is detailed in the trilogy and in my series of lessons on halacha and morality. I explained that even if there are different standards, dilemmas between values can be decided. This is also true with regard to conflicts between two moral values. There is also incommensurability there, and yet we decide.
3. You assume that the midrashim are motivated by moral reasons. This is not necessarily true. Not to injure a person is also a religious value, not just a moral one, and therefore an eye for an eye is interpreted as money. Furthermore, when there is a Midrash, it gives me another possible interpretation beyond the simple. Now even if I choose between it and the simple for moral reasons, it is legitimate.
4. I think so, for the reason I explained above. There I wrote that moral education can also be a religious value. Kabbalah is a proposal that concretely describes these values, and I see it as a general intuition that probably has something to it. I am very skeptical about the details. You can search for my answers here on the site (there have already been questions about this).
All the best,