The boards
Hi
As far as I understand, you think it is very likely that at least parts of the Pentateuch are authentic, meaning that they were given to Moses at Sinai.
- Would it be correct to say, in your opinion, that the Ten Commandments are the most authentic part? After all, the central event of the Torah is its very giving, and according to the text, what was given first of all were the tablets.
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Do you mean to say that the most authentic part is that passage of text
that describes the status? And if so, which status? The ascent of the pregnant Moses? The people who see the voices below?
I am not asking about what can be found in the Chazal tradition or other traditions but about what is found in the Pentateuch itself (the simple interpretation).
The background to the question is my impression that from the simple interpretation it appears that the most important passage of text in the entire Pentateuch is the Ten Commandments. If this is true, the question must be asked whether the Ten Commandments are also the most authentic.
I wasn't referring to the text, but to the content described in it. Regarding the text, I can't say what is most authentic.
If you do not decide what in your opinion is the most authentic part of the Pentateuch, I think you are in trouble. The validity of the Torah for the believer derives, in its own way, first of all from its own testimony that it was given to Moses by God. Now a fundamental clarification of this question cannot avoid the following decision: which sections are likely to have been given as they are and which are likely to have been fabricated later.
On the face of it, the most central and important part of the entire Pentateuch - from its own point of view - is the tablets (because only they are indicated by the text as having been given directly by God). If this is true, the text seems to have already chosen for you not only what is the most important part for it (the Deuteronomy), but also “decided” that it is the most authentic section.
If I am right, turning your back on this truth is a problem..
In the next response I will demonstrate a problem that can arise if you do not choose what is most authentic
Let's assume for the sake of argument that the intelligent reader has come to the conclusion that the stories of the patriarchs are the most authentic in his eyes (let's assume that he was convinced of this based on Bible study, etc.).
The problem is that such a position contradicts the most basic truth that the Torah is trying to convince us of, namely that it itself was given at Sinai. After all, the stories of the patriarchs are part of the Torah and therefore were supposed to be given to us at Sinai (or at least sanctified by virtue of Sinai status)…
This is a paradoxical position and therefore also problematic.
I hope you understand my point (I bet you'll say no, please try to make me believe it…)
I tried, but you were wrong. 🙂
If I was wrong, then that means you did understand...
This is what it's like when you have a day off from work. You sit in the cafe and waste your already allotted time on this kind of nonsense..
Great fun!!
I no longer expect you to read what I write, but at least what you wrote.
Unfortunately, I'm not sitting in a cafe so allow me not to waste my time. Even if you have an interest in wasting your time, it's worth considering others as well.
I probably didn't explain myself well… On my vacation I have more time to delve into your words (within my modest capabilities of course) and I stand behind what I wrote. Vacation or no vacation.
I think I touched on a real problem and your words show that not only do you not understand me (it's really not that bad..) but you also don't understand it.
There was no attempt at trolling here in the first place, but rather a question of how much.
She asked how many, of course.
Honestly, this spell book is killing me.
Let's leave aside the delusion (for that you just have to read what you wrote). I don't understand the question. I will only comment that belief in the giving of the Torah is not based solely on the testimony of the Torah itself, but primarily on our tradition.
I don't understand your clarification about the delusion. Probably too deep for me.
I'll just comment that in your last sentence (“The belief in the giving of the Torah is not based only on the testimony of the Torah but mainly on our tradition”) you opened a somewhat new discussion. Maybe this is not the place to address it, but I do say that you have now revealed a miracle of wonders to me.
It turns out that in your opinion Judaism is built first and foremost on the tradition transmitted/created by flesh and blood humans, and not on Torah from heaven.
Very puzzling to me..
On the other hand, perhaps your answer reveals the paradox I pointed out earlier from another perspective. That's also something.
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