Drafting Yeshiva Students: In Those Days, at This Time (Column 609)
With God’s help
Disclaimer: This post was translated from Hebrew using AI (ChatGPT 5 Thinking), so there may be inaccuracies or nuances lost. If something seems unclear, please refer to the Hebrew original or contact us for clarification.
Know that this matter should not have required an explanation,
for since the Talmudic expression is that six hundred and thirteen commandments
were given to Moses at Sinai, how can we say of something rabbinic
that it is included in the count? Yet we were prompted to address it because many have erred in it…
(Rambam, beginning of Root 1)
In response to the public’s repeated requests—and especially in light of the ratings promised to me in advance—I decided to write a column about drafting yeshiva students. I admit it is embarrassing that one even has to write about a matter so simple and self-evident, but apparently there are many for whom it is not. One could apply here the Rambam’s words at the start of Root 1 quoted above. There he rules that rabbinic commandments are not counted among the 613, yet because this is self-evident he nonetheless addressed it since many (following the Bahag) erred about it. Don’t be surprised if few sources are cited here, certainly not from later decisors. Beyond the fact that in first-order rulings sources are often superfluous except as illustrations, here—precisely because of the simplicity of the matter—this is all the more true. As I wrote, the conclusions are as obvious as daylight, and plain common sense leads straight to them. In such cases, leaning on sources is unnecessary.
The Trigger: “Three things are too wondrous for me, and four I do not understand”
This topic has resurfaced in recent weeks during the “Swords of Iron” war, as the media reports the enlistment of thousands of ultra-Orthodox yeshiva students, with thousands more wanting to join the war effort but unable to do so. It is no wonder there are also some hysterical outbursts by Haredi leaders against the matter. Haredi society is in peril.
The dynamics of social processes are a riddle that strikes me again and again. Why and how does a young and not-particularly-wise girl like Greta, the Swede, become an international superstar who manages to move global processes of climate protection? Why is it that the more violent and shameful Palestinian terror becomes, the better their PR (and the worse ours)—and that among the “liberals”? Why does this or that “useful idiot” become an international star to whom everyone eagerly listens? How do storms erupt from every meaningless triviality (like Bibi’s “Eleh ha-chayim,” and so on)? Why do the slogans of each side in political and moral disputes sound foolish to me and yet sweep up frenzied masses? And more and more. As for our matter, I do not understand why precisely now, in the least threatening and dangerous war we have fought, there arise within the Haredi community the natural emotion and awareness of that basic duty to bear the burden together with the general public. In Column 605 I already wrote about the role of emotion in all these phenomena, but it still requires explanation.
It seems to be the result of a confluence of circumstances, such as the Haredi public’s emergence from the media bubble in which it lived until recent years (it is no accident that they fight so fiercely against an unfiltered internet—this is what every self-respecting dictatorship does)[1]; Haredim entering the workforce and professional training, which creates encounters with other populations and also reduces their economic dependence on the Haredi establishment; add to this the horrifying images from the massacre in the Gaza Envelope, the mobilization of the entire Israeli public the likes of which we have not seen even in previous periods and wars (which has its own reasons), and more. These processes—whose triggers are primarily emotional, of course—also led to some awakening from those semi-hallucinations and shabby uses of aphorisms like “Torah protects and saves” and/or “Torah scholars do not require guarding,” to Rambam’s “Tribe of Levi,” and the rest of those sacred, unassailable principles that are applied only in one area of Haredi life: army service. You won’t see anyone waving them when facing illness, or financial distress, political threats, and the like. In all those cases, everyone dutifully recites the slogans—but only after they have fulfilled the duty of “hishtadlut” (effort) with the desired and most elevated punctiliousness. For some reason, however, security threats do not frighten the Haredim (so long as there are “suckers” to bear the burden for them, of course. Effort, effort… even the Almighty needs agents, more or less faithful). There the situation is reversed: in their holy devotion to Torah they “protect us all,” while we only “ruin” their pursuits. Who said we even need an army to defend against a security threat?!
Well, as noted, in these days it seems the time of song has arrived, and signs of sobering are appearing at the gates of the draft offices. On the margins of this welcome phenomenon, I wonder when the bizarre ideology and theology of conservative Judaism will also go the way of all flesh, straight after the theses that underlie draft-dodging (see below). Perhaps a prophetic spirit fell upon me when I titled my theological leanings No One Has Power Over the Wind. Who can understand the wind and its courses?! Happily, it seems that even without control and without understanding the processes, “A Great Wind Is Coming.” So I decided to add my small contribution to that wind and touch on those barren and ridiculous theses which, like earthenware vessels, are purified by breaking—and they have no “breaking” but a knife.
In this column I will not enter the great theological questions—bitachon and hishtadlut (trust vs. effort), providence and divine involvement in the world, and the like—for two main reasons: (1) I have done so more than once; (2) what I will write here does not depend on them. The analysis and conclusions here are valid even for those who still hold to those odd dogmas. Needless to say, my “lean” theology only strengthens the conclusions I will reach here.
Point of Departure: “Shall your brothers go to war while you sit here?!”
The starting point of the discussion is the moral and civic duty of every person or group to bear the burden together with the other components of society—including the military burden. This is true for any society, Jewish or otherwise, since it is a basic moral principle. Of course, it also has halakhic expressions such as “the law of the kingdom is the law” or obligations to communal ordinances, but these are merely expressions of that self-evident meta-halakhic principle. Therefore, the burden of proof rests on those who wish to exempt themselves from this duty, not on those who call for fulfilling it. They must justify their stance and conduct, which deviate from that obligation. This is all the more true with regard to people who receive services from society and enjoy the equality of rights it offers all its citizens; needless to say, everyone is obligated to pay the “consideration.” It is unreasonable to enjoy the rights and not carry the burden of the obligations. At times one senses that this fundamental basis is missing in Haredi thinking—though in many Haredim (as individuals) it certainly exists—even if in the public discourse there is every effort to conceal it (aside from the aforesaid “outbursts” that repeatedly expose it to all).
Somehow this duty is translated into a halakhic obligation to participate in war, and the discussion revolves around that halakhic-philosophic issue. That, of course, drags us into the tiresome and irrelevant debate about the status of Israel’s wars today and the obligation to be drafted into them—are these “obligatory wars” or not, who is obligated in an obligatory war, and so on. This is utter nonsense and does not touch our discussion (for, as noted, the burden of proof lies on whoever tries to escape, not on those who claim there is an obligation to participate). Still, for the same reasons given by the Rambam in the column’s motto, I will briefly touch this as well.
At the start of chapter 5 of the Laws of Kings and Their Wars, the Rambam lists three types of obligatory war:
The king first fights only an obligatory war. And what is an obligatory war? The war against the seven nations, the war against Amalek, and delivering Israel from the hand of an oppressor who comes against them. Only afterward does he fight an optional war, which is a war fought with other nations in order to expand the borders of Israel and magnify the king’s greatness and reputation.
For an obligatory war the king need not consult the Sanhedrin; he mobilizes the people at his discretion (or, there, with the consent of the court). By contrast, an optional war requires a process of authorization. Arguments arise from time to time that today we have no Sanhedrin, Urim and Thummim, or prophet, and it is doubtful whether we may engage in an optional war; this raises the question of the obligatory war of delivering Israel from an oppressor. Again: it is obvious that our wars are not optional wars, and debating this on the basis of sources is bizarre. Are we speaking of expanding borders and magnifying the king’s greatness?! It therefore emerges, as the Rambam says, that delivering Israel from an oppressor is an obligatory war, and on the face of it that is precisely what we are dealing with in our day (with our “king” for this purpose being the government).
Yet in the next chapter the Rambam lists only the other two types (ch. 6, law 4):
If they do not make peace, or they make peace but do not accept the seven Noahide commandments, we wage war against them, kill all the adult males, and plunder all their property and children; we do not kill a woman or a minor, as it says, “and the women and the little ones”—this refers to male children. When are these words said? In an optional war, which is with other nations; but in the case of the seven nations and Amalek who did not make peace, we do not leave any soul alive, as it says, “So shall you do to all… Only from the cities of these peoples you shall not let any soul live,” and concerning Amalek, “you shall blot out the remembrance of Amalek.” And from where do we know this speaks only of those who did not make peace? As it says, “There was not a city that made peace with the children of Israel, except the Hivites who dwelt in Gibeon; they took all in battle, for it was from the Lord to harden their hearts to meet Israel in battle, in order to utterly destroy them”—from which we learn that they sent them demands for peace and they did not accept.
What about delivering Israel from an oppressor? Is that not an obligatory war? It is fairly clear that in such a case we do not first offer peace, for we have no time and must preempt and kill them. Yet the Rambam does not address this type here, and I think not by accident. Delivering Israel from an oppressor is not an obligatory war, at least not in the same sense as the wars against Amalek and the seven nations. Those are wars whose aim is to fulfill a commandment; that command is the motive for waging them. Without it we would not consider such a war (except perhaps as an optional war). But delivering Israel from an oppressor is done in order to defend and protect our lives, and we would do so even without any command. Of course there is an element of the commandment to preserve life, but the war is not waged for the commandment or by its force. Put differently: unlike the Amalek and seven-nation wars, even were there no commandment, we would fight in self-defense. From time to time a heretical thought crosses my mind: before the Hasmonean court expounded “until it is subdued”—even on Shabbat (Shabbat 19a)—did Jews not fight on Shabbat but serenely surrender to slaughter while humming Shabbat melodies?
The conclusion is that delivering Israel from an oppressor is a third kind of war: neither optional nor truly “obligatory” in that sense. Moreover, I have written more than once (see, for example, my article here) that it is in fact incorrect to treat such a war as a “war” in the halakhic sense. It need not be conducted by the halakhic parameters of war. It is a matter of saving life, and therefore the needs of defense dictate what must be done: who goes out, what authorization process is required, and so on. There is no difference between a nation going out to a defensive war and a private individual defending his life. It is merely a matter of pikuach nefesh—saving life—nothing more.
The practical consequence concerns all the debates about who goes out to war. Many cite that in an obligatory war even a groom from his chamber and a bride from her canopy go out, and perhaps even Torah scholars are not exempt. But these are empty and pointless debates. This is not a halakhic discussion but a factual one. Whatever is required to defend—that is what must be done. If the public holds that for this war everyone is needed, then everyone must go. Would you imagine that we should be defeated in war because the rules require that grooms or Torah scholars not go out? These are ordinary considerations of saving life; there is no need to cite sources. It reminds me of a story I heard from a friend who was a tank officer in the First Lebanon War: he arrived at an emergency depot, received a tank platoon, and was ordered to drive on tracks into Lebanon until he reached his battalion. As is known, chaos reigned; along the way more and more lost soldiers joined him until a convoy formed. In the end they reached the battalion an hour before the ceasefire (after a few days wandering in Lebanon). He told me that when he organized night guard duty, there were career soldiers who informed him they do not stand guard because they are career personnel (as is customary in the army). It was not a war; apparently the privileges of career soldiers and their regulations are sacred.
Beyond all this, the parameters here should not differ between Israel and any other nation. The State of Israel—even if King David himself headed it—should conduct itself in this matter like any other state and by the same logic and rules; likewise, my duty as a Jew, whether a kollel fellow or not, secular or religious, to participate in a defensive war exists even if I am a Belgian or Tanzanian citizen. It is not tied to my being Israeli or to the fact that this is the Jewish state. It is the duty of a citizen to the society and state in which he lives, in self-defense against threats that also threaten him.
From all this you can understand that considerations of saving life dictate how we conduct ourselves in these wars, and these are not halakhic but factual matters. Halakhah permits everything before pikuach nefesh, but beyond that, determining whether a given situation is life-threatening and what is required to address it are factual-security considerations, not halakhic ones. Therefore the debates and sources that are endlessly chewed over in these contexts are devoid of value and meaning.
For the same reason, there is no need to discuss whether we are a Jewish state, whether this is defending Israel from an oppressor, whether we have a “king” (the government) today, etc. None of this is relevant. Any person or group in danger may and must defend themselves with all means at their disposal. The one thing that is perhaps relevant is Moses’ rebuke to the tribes of Gad and Reuben (Numbers 32:6):
“Shall your brothers go to war while you sit here?!”
This is not, of course, a halakhic citation but a moral rebuke—and that is exactly what is relevant to our discussion.
It seems to me that the very resort to sources and multiplying casuistry is like someone who asks a question in the laws of saving life on Shabbat—where the very discussion and question are disgraceful (Jerusalem Talmud, Yoma 8:5):
We desecrate Shabbat for saving a life. And one who hastens is praiseworthy. One need not seek authorization from the court. And one who is consulted is reprehensible, and the one who asks is a shedder of blood.
Later on I will nonetheless conduct this foolish discussion—for the reasons expressed in the column’s motto—but really I should have said here: “Why do you cry out to Me? Tell the children of Israel to go forward.”
The Framework of the Discussion: The Justifications
As noted, the duty to bear the military burden is self-evident and does not require halakhic debate and sources. It is simply saving life. One might argue that the army does not need all the young people who enlist—which may be true. But that still does not mean the Haredim or students should be exempt. If that is indeed the case, then conscript only 60% of the youths—but every sector must carry its share of the existing burden. This is the starting point: there is an obligation on everyone to bear the burden. What remains is to move to the question of the justifications for non-enlistment.
If I lay out the basic infrastructure of Haredi arguments against enlistment, I think it rests on four main components: (1) fear of “corruption”; (2) opposition to Zionism and the state; (3) the value of Torah study; (4) Torah as a substitute for defense—“Torah scholars do not require guarding” (for themselves) and “Torah protects and saves” (they also protect society at large).
As we will see, the different arguments attempt to justify non-enlistment of different groups and scopes. The first and second are the broadest, as they seek to exempt all Haredim. The third is the narrowest, as it speaks only of the “elite” (a common term in this discourse, meaning a carefully filtered minority) who should be exempt. The fourth speaks of a mid-sized group—everyone who studies.
I will now discuss each in turn.
- Fear of “corruption”
In my estimation, at least these days (and perhaps it has always been so), if you think honestly you will find that the first argument is the main one. There is a fear that a Haredi youth who enlists will be exposed to people and ideas outside the camp, threatening the “purity of his outlook,” and thus the entire Haredi society (risk of attrition). They do not talk about this much in the media, since it broadcasts weakness and fear (as opposed to the self-assured messaging typically presented from that direction), but this is the bitter truth. Once this claim is exposed (usually they try to conceal it), it appears reasonable and logical. They are not shirkers; rather, they claim the right to protect their way of life and live according to their understanding, and if the army threatens that, it is reasonable that they will refuse to enlist.
One can, to be sure, propose protected service tracks (with rabbinic oversight, political commissars, and mashgichim, as customary there), as indeed has occurred in recent years, but Haredi society—justifiably—is very wary even of those. The attitude to such tracks is two-faced, a very Haredi way for those in the know: outwardly they say it is legitimate, while internally they signal that it is strictly forbidden and that one should not marry into families who go there. The reason is that it is impossible to create a full Haredi bubble within the army. Some encounter with other populations is unavoidable, and that creates a great threat to Haredi life—and reality bears this out. As a factual matter, there is indeed a fairly high chance that a Haredi youth will be “corrupted” in the army. It is true that in many cases the “corruption” is the cause of his enlistment rather than its result (this is a common mistake in discussions of the draft). Still, slamming the door on enlistment is a Haredi instrument for guarding their youth.
It is important to understand that although this argument appears, on its face, the most reasonable and acceptable (at least it is not a fabrication like the other three), upon further reflection it is entirely baseless. The fact that you are likely to be “corrupted”—that is, that your ideology and principles are threatened—does not justify shirking your civic duties to the society in which you live, certainly so long as the service does not directly contravene your convictions but merely poses certain risks. That duty obligates you to risk your principles. There is no justification for others to risk their lives for you because you have such-and-such principles (you do not wish to be “corrupted”). I too have a very basic principle—that I do not wish to die. Does that justify my not enlisting? Are an important Haredi individual’s eating strictly-supervised kosher or not seeing a woman in pants more important than my life? Just as I may not steal others’ money to heal myself or cope with threats to my lifestyle and views, so too here: my threats and risks are my problem, not anyone else’s. If there are such threats, you should try to establish an optimal service track for yourself—but within that, you must bear the burden. In recent years this has been done somewhat, but the public discourse around it is bizarre: somehow it seems that this is the state’s interest, and the Haredim are merely doing us a favor and deserve gratitude. In truth, it ought to be the Haredi society’s interest to fulfill its duty to society and state, not the state’s and/or army’s interest. Everything here is upside-down.
I will add that I am very troubled by the assertiveness with which people advance this claim—even with a certain pride at their honesty (that they are willing to admit weakness)—and the expectation of gratitude for those who do enlist and for the far-reaching “compromises” (?!) they are willing to make as part of service. It seems they lack the basic moral understanding that guarding your principles does not justify having others give their lives for you and that there is a moral (and halakhic) duty to bear the burden with the public. You are not serving for “them” but for society as a whole—which includes you as well. Even among those who wish to enlist there somehow persists the sense that service is an obligation toward the outside public (cf. “gratitude”). This naturally brings us to the next three points.
- Ideology and theology
The second basis I presented is ideological—the attitude toward the State of Israel and Zionism. This was the talk before the state’s founding and among the Haredi ideological vanguard in its early years, but today it is typically denied emphatically in outward discourse (aside from uncontrollable outbursts like this one by R. Bunim Schreiber and several others by the vile Eichler, or this one by Rabbi Dov Lando, and so on). Many think that even if it exists somewhere in the background, it plays no role in justifying non-enlistment.
I disagree, first because the matter began with it and also because it still depends on it. Even today, when the talk about Zionism and the state is more muted, in my view this is a central component in justifying non-enlistment—especially inwardly. Even if it is not much stated outwardly and even if not a few deny it with respect to themselves, a Haredi youth must justify to himself not bearing the burden, and claims like “What have we to do with them?” or “They caused the problems, and we should fight and risk ourselves on account of that?” help him. An atmosphere of estrangement and non-partnership eases the conscience regarding the draft, even without formulating it as an ideological principle and without stating it explicitly.
- The value of Torah study
The third argument is the value of Torah study and the claim that Torah growth requires full devotion, so enlistment would very much interfere. Here they bring the exemptions granted to athletes and artists, and the argument arises: “Shall the priestess be like a barmaid?!” Surely Torah study is no less important than these pursuits. It should be noted that non-Haredim (including myself) share this argument—but of course it can justify exempting a far smaller number of students, not a blanket exemption for Haredim, nor even for all who study Torah. In Column 34 I explained that on this basis I certainly think it proper to exempt a certain number of carefully vetted students who are suited to Torah growth (what is commonly called the “elite”), exempting them from army service and from earning a livelihood. But even this is an exemption society grants those students also for its own sake, not a right due to anyone by law or that he may demand. Our topic here is exemption by right; therefore I will not enter the question of setting a specific number.
In this context (and not in discussing the fourth argument), the well-known words of the Rambam at the end of his Laws of Sabbatical and Jubilee Years are brought, where he writes:
And why did Levi not merit a share in the Land of Israel and its spoils along with his brothers? Because he was set apart to serve the Lord, to minister to Him and to teach His upright ways and righteous judgments to the many, as it is said, “They shall teach Jacob Your judgments and Israel Your Torah.” Therefore they were separated from the ways of the world: they do not wage war like the rest of Israel, nor do they inherit or acquire for themselves by the strength of their bodies. Rather, they are the army of the Lord, as it is said, “Bless, O Lord, his army.” And He, blessed be He, provides for them, as it is said, “I am your portion and your inheritance.”
And not the tribe of Levi alone, but any person from among all the inhabitants of the world whose spirit generously moves him and whose wisdom has brought him to set himself apart to stand before the Lord, to minister to Him, to serve Him, to know the Lord; and who goes straight as God made him, and casts off from his neck the yoke of the many calculations that people seek—such a person is sanctified as holy of holies. The Lord will be his portion and inheritance forever and ever; He will provide for him in this world with what suffices him, just as He granted to the priests and Levites. As David, peace be upon him, says: “The Lord is my allotted portion and my cup; You support my lot.”
As is known, the Rambam tends to insert aggadic “vorts” at the end of his halakhic compilations. No vort has been quoted and used more than this one. In any event, one sees here that Torah scholars are exempt from efforts to earn a livelihood and from waging war, and of course also from owning property.
It has already been noted that the stance which uses this Rambam cherry-picks special exemptions and neglects the others. It is hard to say of an ordinary kollel fellow that he is one who has cast off the yoke of the many calculations people seek, who walks straight as God made him, who is uninterested in property and ownership, and whose entire life is sanctified to study. Even among the most diligent learners, very few truly meet this magnificent description. But even if most do not meet the criteria (the duties), they nonetheless feel free to enjoy the rights: principally exemption from army service and, to a degree, exemption from livelihood (though much effort goes into ensuring there is no need for such effort; the state and society are supposed to replace the Almighty in providing their sustenance).
In parentheses I will note that the Rambam’s words in the Laws of Torah Study (3:10)—which are not an aggadic vort but a halakhic ruling (in the Rambam’s view; personally I am very doubtful here)—are less frequently quoted by the Haredim:
Anyone who sets his heart on studying Torah and not working, and sustains himself from charity—such a person desecrates the Name, dishonors the Torah, extinguishes the light of religion, and brings evil upon himself, and forfeits life in the World to Come. For it is forbidden to derive benefit from words of Torah in this world. The Sages said: “Anyone who benefits from words of Torah forfeits his life from the world.” And they further commanded: “Do not make them a crown with which to magnify yourself, nor a spade with which to dig.” And they further commanded: “Love work and hate authority.” Any Torah that is not accompanied by work will in the end be nullified and lead to sin, and in the end such a person will rob people.
Here they prefer to rule like the Kesef Mishneh on the spot. Well, he relies on the fact that many tried and did not succeed—but exemption from service does indeed “succeed,” so why not?!
One may wonder—even aside from the Haredim—how the Rambam’s statements cohere. I think that in the Laws of Sabbatical and Jubilee Years he speaks of people like Ben Azzai and Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai, who truly cast off the yoke of worldly calculations, do not engage in livelihood or efforts, and hand themselves over entirely to the Almighty. Such people scarcely exist—neither then nor now. It is only a principled assertion and the presentation of some utopian model. By contrast, in the Laws of Torah Study he speaks of those who are not like Ben Azzai and Rashbi, who do engage in livelihood and efforts—like all of us—but think to derive their livelihood from Torah study. Such people, in his view, desecrate the Name, dishonor the Torah, and extinguish the light of religion, and in the end rob the public. Personally I do not agree with the Rambam here, but if one relies on the Rambam’s view, he must ask himself which of the two categories he belongs to; in particular this should be examined with respect to the Haredi public that cites the Rambam in the Laws of Sabbatical and Jubilee Years and apparently assigns itself—and all its fellows—to the first category.
Incidentally, if one adopts a new social covenant that exempts a small number of learners suited to it, they can be considered the “Tribe of Levi” even if they do not meet the Rambam’s criteria. It is an exemption granted by society also for itself, and it has the right to do so even in a poor generation like ours in which we do not have such Levites who cast off the yoke of the many calculations of human beings. The discussion here is about those whom society does not exempt on this basis, but about a sweeping exemption by force of coalition pressures and ideological and other principles as listed here—in other words, a demand for exemption as an acquired right.
- Torah as a substitute for defense
The final argument is that those who study protect us all, and therefore they are in fact contributing their share. This is the main Haredi line of propaganda, spoken much inwardly but no less important outwardly—because it is relatively easy to defend. Not because the outside listeners will necessarily agree (they won’t), but because they will at least understand that this is not simple shirking. When you are accused of shirking, the best defense is offense: I am the one who truly protects. And why do you not bear the burden of Torah study? You are the shirkers, for without it we cannot survive here.
As I wrote above, this section divides into two distinct claims: (a) “Torah scholars do not require guarding”—that is, army protection is needed only by ordinary citizens, not by Torah students; they are guarded by their Torah. Consequently they have no duty to contribute to defense, for they are not its “clients” (as if they were citizens of a different country for this purpose). (b) “Torah protects and saves.” This can also be understood similarly—that Torah protects and saves one who engages in it, which returns us to the previous point. But the way this phrase is used in the draft debate is that Torah also protects and saves society at large. That is, the claim is not only that kollel fellows are exempt because they do not need guarding, but that they in fact carry their share of the burden of guarding by their study, thereby protecting us all. The pious add that Torah is the true protector of us all, and the army is merely the “hishtadlut.” The hishtadlut thesis is a fascinating and unfounded invention—a jumble of logical contradictions, baseless fabrications, and shabby excuses that cover for a lack of faith in conservative dogmas (“everything is in Heaven’s hands”). I have elaborated on it more than once (see, for example, Column 279 and many others). Here I will therefore focus on the thesis of Torah study as “guarding.”
In this discussion we must first distinguish between aggadic and halakhic sources. “Torah protects and saves” is an aggadic statement, and any practical—certainly halakhic—conclusion drawn from it is very tentative. By contrast, “Torah scholars do not require guarding” appears in halakhic contexts and has halakhic ramifications.
“Torah protects and saves”
In Sotah 21a the Talmud discusses the protective power of commandments and Torah, and says both protect, but Torah more so:
As it is taught: R. Menachem b. Yose expounded, “For a commandment is a lamp and the Torah is light.” Scripture attached the commandment to a lamp and the Torah to light. It attached the commandment to a lamp to tell you: just as a lamp protects only temporarily, so too a commandment protects only temporarily; and the Torah to light to tell you: just as light protects forever, so too the Torah protects forever. And it says: “When you walk, it will guide you”—this is in this world; “when you lie down, it will watch over you”—this is death; “and when you awake, it will speak with you”—in the World to Come. A parable: A person walking in the dead of night, afraid of thorns, pits, thistles, wild animals, and bandits, and he does not know which path he is on. If a torch of fire chances upon him, he is saved from the thorns, pits, and thistles, yet he still fears wild animals and bandits and does not know which path he is on. When dawn breaks, he is saved from wild animals and bandits, yet he still does not know which path he is on. When he reaches a crossroads, he is saved from all. Another matter: A transgression extinguishes a commandment, but a transgression does not extinguish Torah, as it says: “Many waters cannot quench love.” R. Yosef said: A commandment, at the time one is engaged in it, protects and saves; when one is not engaged in it, it protects but does not save. Torah, whether one is engaged in it or not, protects and saves. Raba challenged: But Doeg and Ahitophel—did they not engage in Torah? Why then did it not protect them? Rather, said Rava: Torah, at the time one is engaged in it, protects and saves; when one is not engaged in it, it protects but does not save. A commandment, whether one is engaged in it or not, protects but does not save.
Incidentally, even there the discussion concerns protection of the person studying, not of the collective. One could, to be sure, bring other sources speaking of the merit of study and its benefit to those who support learners, and perhaps even to society at large. In any case, the meaning of that protection is not simple. Are there not Torah students who suffer harms of various kinds? The Talmud itself wonders about Doeg and Ahitophel and offers answers. Accept them or not—one does not refute a homily. In any event, as with all aggadah it is difficult to derive a clear conclusion, certainly regarding how much Torah must be studied for it to protect, to what extent it protects, and whom it protects. Does anyone stop taking medicine or going to work because “Torah protects and saves”? (Yes, yes, the “duty of hishtadlut.” And with respect to the army there is supposedly no such duty—I know.) Add to this what I have often written: even if all this were stated, the outlooks of the Sages do not obligate and are not necessarily correct; only the halakhah they ruled has formal force.
For my part, I too think “Torah protects and saves”—but not necessarily in a mystical sense; rather in a natural one. It is what protects Judaism, and thereby our survival as a people. Challah-separations or second-hakafot probably won’t do the job. This is a significant argument also for our discussion, since for this reason I indeed support granting an exemption to a reasonable number of serious students. I once offered the parable of the poor Chinese man who received two pennies for charity and bought with them a loaf of bread and a flower. When asked why he did not buy two slices of bread, he replied: the bread is to live, but the flower is to have something to live for. The value of our survival as a people lies only in Judaism. Without that, of course every human life has value—but I see not a shred of value in national survival as such.
“Torah scholars do not require guarding”
The source lies in the tax discussions in the first chapter of Bava Batra. The structure of the laws of taxation is complex, and the main question is how to apportion participation in public needs among citizens. Let me preface what I have remarked in the past: I am not at all certain these are halakhic sugyot. They are norms the Sages enacted wearing their hat as representatives of the public, not as decisors (like communal ordinances). The fact that these laws found their way into halakhic codes is the result of the historical accident by which we lost the monarchy and the secular authority (the monarchy) and halakhic authority (the Sanhedrin) merged. If so, one may learn nothing halakhically from there; the rulings are not binding. The fact is that in the matter of communal ordinances and taxes, no one practices as per the Shulchan Aruch but according to accepted custom—and no one is troubled by this. See on this Column 164 and elsewhere.
One of the principles presented there is that, at least regarding some matters, participation in public needs is according to the measure of benefit one derives (see here for a survey by my former student, Rabbi Yair Aton). Thus, for example, a wealthy person benefits more from a wall that protects against robbers and therefore must contribute more money toward it than a poor person; likewise, a family with many children benefits more from educational institutions, etc. By this principle, a Torah scholar who is protected personally by the Torah he has learned and learns is exempt from contributing to security expenses, since he does not need them. Note: this exemption does not derive from the notion that his Torah protects us all but that it protects him. The claim that he protects society is an additional claim—and it is hard to find clear support for it in those Talmudic sugyot.
In chapter 5 of his essay, Rabbi Aton discusses the exemption of Torah scholars from security expenditures. He presents three arguments there:
- The exemption from guarding is because they do not need it. According to this, it is not an exemption specifically for Torah scholars but an application of the general principle of contribution according to need. Indeed, the Talmud there makes clear that there are Torah scholars who do contribute to expenses (not to guarding itself, Heaven forbid—“that is not a job for Jews,” as the Gashash Hahiver quipped) in cases where they, too, need guarding. The question is whether, in our case, we are speaking of people who do not need guarding. Do they also not call the police when a thief enters their home, and not seek a livelihood when in financial distress? The selective use of the principle “Torah scholars do not require guarding” is problematic.
Beyond this, what does it say about expenditures for Haredi culture and education, mikva’ot, and more? If the assumption is that each community will fund itself and its needs, we will not get far. I have not heard of such renunciation from the Haredim.
- There is also, in that sugya, an exemption for Torah scholars from all royal taxes. Rabbi Aton argues that this applies only to a gentile kingdom; but even without that, I have yet to hear the Haredim demand exemption from taxes (though many of them, as known, are quite lenient in practice on that law). But who knows—perhaps this, too, awaits us…
- The exemption from taxes is also linked in those sugyot to the idea that calamity befalls the world because of ignoramuses. That is, the learners are not the source of the trouble and therefore the obligation to address it does not fall on them. I already mentioned above this odd argument (I believe its source is the Chazon Ish). Beyond the theological novelty of specifying on whose account calamities arrive and the diagnostic novelty that gives us clear tools to determine who is a Torah scholar and who an ignoramus and on whose account trouble befalls us, there is here the assumption that the level of contribution is set according to culpability (who caused the expense) rather than according to the level of threat (who needs saving). Note that we are not speaking of culpability that would justify imposing liability in tort—that, in itself, is a nontrivial innovation. Beyond that, now we can enter questions of culpability regarding all sorts of expenditures in our state and determine contributions accordingly. Here, too, you will see that we will not get far.
Generally speaking, throughout those sugyot it is implied that Torah protects its learners, not the public at large. The discussion is about exemption due to lack of need or lack of culpability. I have not heard anyone among us argue that if we have Torah students there is no need to spend on security because nothing will happen to any of us. Therefore, the claim that students protect the public surely cannot rely on those sugyot. But even regarding the students themselves, this is a selective use of ungrounded claims.
Conclusion and Summary
The discussion of all these arguments only shows us that the laws of taxes and participation in the burden in those sugyot are irrelevant to our lives in a modern state (and, as noted, they are not binding laws). I therefore do not accept those who brandish them as a contemporary basis, certainly when they do so selectively and inconsistently. Whoever enters the category of “Tribe of Levi” should do so to the end—including tax on sugary drinks, renunciation of livelihood and medicine, police services, and more. And in general: even if such righteous people are assigned service and taxes, nothing will happen to them. The Torah will protect them—so what is the problem?!
Returning to the beginning: there is no place for a sweeping exemption for Torah students, and certainly not a blanket exemption for some sector. One can set reasonable quotas for special learners (talented and diligent, after screening), so that “the priestess not be like a barmaid.” And if, for some reason, one concludes that full enlistment is unnecessary, even then the exemptions must be distributed among all sectors, not granted all to one group.
On Hanukkah—when the priests, the sons of the Tribe of Levi, were those who arose before the people to wage war against the Greeks (well, perhaps they were not the Rambam’s “Tribe of Levi,” but simply from the tribe of Levi)—it is most fitting that today’s Torah students hasten to the war and not leave their brothers to give their lives for them. In those days, at this time.
[1] I have written more than once that whoever thinks the Haredi internet filter became a cardinal article of faith because of pornography or violence does not understand how Haredi society operates. Haredi “articles of faith” are in no way connected to Jewish articles of faith. Their principal concern is exposure to other opinions and people—not to halakhic transgressions of one sort or another (from this you can also understand why my website is filtered there). In general, Haredi society is far more troubled by dangers to “Haredi-ness” than by matters of fear of Heaven or sin; all the great wars are waged there only over such issues. The fervent slogans about saving Israel and avoiding transgressions are a fig leaf for this.
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To Mayisha, I think that only the second argument (anti-Zionism) is the only one that holds water. But not always.
It mainly holds water for those who don't hold the stick at both ends – that is, those who also don't take money from the state (who can be counted on the palm of one hand, as we know).
And as such, it is no different from the conscientious objection that was prevalent here in the 1990s-2000s (which are also despicable and marked the beginning of Israel's social decadence, and I dare say that it itself, like a butterfly effect, influenced the creation of a new right-wing (and not an apologetic shadow, the hero of Israel...) as a kind of "horseshoe diagram" with the children of the moonlight at one end, and the administrative detainees from the hills at the other end, and the equal side of them "does not enlist".
And on the other hand, to cut this unwritten and pathetic contract with the Haredim. If anything, then already "like Arabs. They are not a fifth-generation guard-style army, and they are our brothers and all but a sham. (On the other hand, if we fall for this comparison, it only reminds us that between the desired and the existing there is a vast abyss, and what we see from the computer of The philosopher/talkbackist, is not seen in reality).
Beyond that (all the rest: Shas blackmailers, the Li(S)tays with their own blunders and internal contradictions, the faction fools) all respond in horror and say in awe: crushed crushed crushed, and no peppery excuse is worth anything.
Even without the neediness (which is somewhat ridiculous by the way, and a lot utilitarian) of a handful of Haredim who are ”doing good” and ”doing good” and waxing poetic about their military service in the Pelser Chod at the training base for weeks (!) (!!), as if by doing so they are saving the people from every seed of shame that will never be given to Alma. As if all this will not come back to us in a boomerang at six after the war, “here you see” Etc. etc.
Not pricked and not stuffed. Let them enlist like the rest of us.
Or let's stop with this part of being forced laborers for people who, as they advance through the ranks (from the top and up, from the HaKhim to Bibihu), begin to smell the stench of the fish in their heads, and to recalculate their course at the expense of the scoundrels who eat it in various campaigns and rounds.
Woe to me, my Egyptians (- the high windows) and woe to me, my creators (- or those who wear black that Alek speaks on his behalf).
How difficult it is today to be a right-wing, observant man. It's not walking between the drops, it's running in zigzag between bullets of the M.A.G.
Why Bibihu?
Why derogatory nicknames?
Do I have reason to think you're better than him at something?
By the way, he didn't reach the rank of Brigadier General.
Yes, yes. Scholarly comment: I don't really understand what you gain by defining the war of Ezra Israel as a war of immediate necessity, not a war of commandment, but rather a war of survival. First, both Rabbi Goren and Rabbi Yisraeli (who argued about the issue of harming innocent people in Tecumin 4 and later became articles in the Torah of the State and in Chavat Binyamin 1:15) did not treat it that way. In principle, you are transferring the laws of a war of commandment to the Pekhu, but what did you gain by doing that? One Rambam is admonished and the other (the first) remains difficult (of course, it is not difficult for them either, why did Rambam ignore this in the second Rambam, and each of them teaches in the opposite direction) But what is the insistence on this definition? It is likely that you are right. But is there anyone who enlists in the Pekkon who is not enlisted in the Mitzvah War? After all, even if, God forbid, there is an invasion of an enemy army into the country, not everyone enlists but rather arranges themselves in some order that each country determines, and why not say that this is exactly what they defined in the Mitzvah War?
Thank you
This is not a question of profit. This is the truth. Maimonides is not difficult. This is a war of mitzvah even if it is not a war of mitzvah.
The point is that this is not a war at all. See the article I linked. And another point is that there is no need to rely on sources to determine the boundaries of responsibility and the way of conduct.
Thank you. But apparently there is a need to add a dimension of war to the dimension of life preservation, because if this is not a war at all, the question of the education facilitator returns: why wouldn't every person in such a case say that he wants to flee his life preservation policies, for example, and not fight?
Because there is a social consensus and a sharing of the burden to protect us all. If a person does not want to be a citizen, then let him run away and join another group. This is collective self-determination, and this is war in the common terminology, but not a war of commandment in the halakhic sense.
But that is precisely the disadvantage of this approach. Collective self-preservation is not something that can be defined. There are many who evade conscription, and as long as it is not in an unorganized and institutionalized way (like in ultra-Orthodox society) then it is somehow accepted. Is someone who fled abroad during the war a traitor? Not really. It is only perceived as something that is not socially acceptable, but nothing more. So you have lost the norm that requires action and replaced it with something personal.
What about the claim that during the war, Shabbat was permitted? Apparently, your definition has a great deal of practical value (in practice, the Military Rabbinate rules that Shabbat is permitted. By the way, is the Military Rabbinate considered a rabbi in the IDF?)
I don't know the distinction between the types of wars, and certainly not between a war of mitzvah and a war in which there is a mitzvah. And even less do I know the difference between permissible and unacceptable (although I remember that Tirgitz once raised a difference here).
Regarding the status of the Military Rabbinate, apparently yes, but I doubt it. It's an appointment from above of people who aren't always worthy, and today everyone has their own rabbis.
1. Is there a difference between the concern of an entire public that fears widespread and significant damage to the thing that is most precious to them, which is the Torah and the commandments, and an individual who does not want to enlist because he has a distant fear of dying?
2. If the situation were reversed, that the army was an ultra-Orthodox army and the secular public were afraid of mass conversion and would not enlist, would that make sense?
1. No. And it's not just one person either. Everyone doesn't want to die.
2. No. What's the point of this question?!
Isn't it reasonable that society would consider the public for whom conscription requires a significant sacrifice far beyond the rest of society, especially if there really is no need for everyone to enlist, then why don't we exempt those people for whom conscription harms them immeasurably more than anyone else, in the same way that there is consideration for an only child who is not required to enlist in a combat unit only voluntarily and with the consent of his parents, because the sacrifice for them, if God forbid, something were to happen to their son, far exceeds the sacrifice of everyone else?
In my opinion, it does not require such a great sacrifice. It is a violation of interests more than of values. If someone claims that the risk of his son eating rabbinate or thinking that not all secular people are drugged or that Rabbi Kanievsky can sometimes make a mistake is greater than the risk of death, he fails to convince me.
And, that this is a huge number of people, unlike pacifists, for example, who are very few.
And beyond that, if society decides on it – for health. But demands and claims about rights are a different opera.
The harm is not just to interests. Many young people have lost their faith in the army.
Many young people also lost their lives in the army.
As I have already noted, the Haredim who did this were mostly relieved of their burden and therefore enlisted, not the other way around.
Many religious Zionists enlisted and then discharged their burdens, not the other way around. The fear of the possibility of spoiling is much greater than the possibility of death.
It is not possible to enlist without taking the risk of death, but if it is possible not to take a spiritual risk (for people who see the value of a life of observing the commandments as greater than even the value of life itself), it makes sense that they would demand not to enlist, especially if they don't need everyone anyway.
In my opinion, many of those who broke down in the army came already half-broken and secondly, why is their fear of breaking down greater than the fear of the State of Israel breaking down?
And what about the fear of secularists losing their human image in the territories?
Anyone can make excuses from the winery and the threshing floor
Although I thought you would be more firm, I stand by what I wrote and I expect there will be many responses.
Cheers. I don't feed off the number of comments and ratings. I was just joking about it.
Wow, the column should be turned into a booklet and published..
A few changes, it will be temporary and printed.
There is an interesting article by Rabbi Neriah Gotal where he explains that the protection of the Torah is only for those who study for the sake of God, and according to him, this concept does not belong at all to us, and so on:
From the issue of Ketubot (Ez 1:2) it is clear that this protection of the Torah applies only to Torah students of the highest level, those who study Torah “completely for the sake of God” in holiness and purity, those whose faith is strong and who have great privileges. We learned this from the commentaries on what is said there about Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi, who during his study of Torah would “associate” with seriously ill and contagious people, after he claimed that if the Torah certainly protects. It should be noted that the Gemara (ibid.) describes his conduct as standing in contrast to the conduct of his colleagues – R’ Yochanan, R’ Zira, R’ Elazar, R’ Ami and R’ Assi – who distanced themselves very much from any proximity to those contagious patients.
https://www.toramedina.org.il/%d7%9e%d7%90%d7%9e%d7%a8%d7%99-%d7%95%d7%a9%d7%99%d7%a2%d7%95%d7%a8%d7%99-%d7%94%d7%9e%d7%a8%d7%9b%d7%96/%d7%9e%d7%9b%d7%aa-% d7%9e%d7%93%d7%99%d7%a0%d7%94-%d7%a7%d7%95%d7%a8%d7%95%d7%a0%d7%94/%d7%a2%d7% 9c-%d7%9e%d7%99-%d7%9e%d7%92%d7%99%d7%a0%d7%94-%d7%94%d7%aa%d7%95%d7%a8%d7%94/
Wonderful. Thus the thesis became empty of all content and irrefutable. He literally saved the thesis. Indeed, Torah is a condemnation and a punishment (especially for shattered theological theses).
According to him, this verse never spoke about ordinary people or even ordinary priests. Rather, the Bible says that there are people who reach such levels, just as there are individuals who have the level of prophecy or the Holy Spirit. But this is certainly not an argument about reality that exempts people from serving in the army or working.
That's what I wrote, right? Its accuracy from the Gemara is of course very weak.
I brought Rabbi Gotal only as a helper.
What is your response to argument 2?
What is argument 2?
The second argument of the Haredim against conscription (opposition to Zionism and the state). You did not answer this in the column.
So they will not benefit from the state's resources or use them.
Why is Arab society allowed to benefit from the state's resources? I haven't seen anyone challenge this.
"I didn't see it, it's not evidence, as you know. We were just like that (of course, for Arabs, national service is required).
Regarding section 3. Apparently, even if efforts are made to ensure that Torah study has a value that overrides everything, and even if efforts are made to ensure that it can belong to a large population (the Haredim), this still does not lead to resignation from military service, or anything else. Because in life we are not supposed to do only what is "valued above all." Otherwise, even if you feed your child, it will take up study time. Don't go take a shower, it will take up study time. Etc. etc.
In other words, there is a fallacy in the argument:
"Torah study has a value that overrides everything" => "You should get rid of military service (or something else)"
Right?
I didn't understand what you were arguing with. I completely agree.
The column is true for a secular person who would refuse to enlist if the army were an ultra-Orthodox organization.
But the ultra-Orthodox does not discuss whether he is obligated to enlist, but rather whether Judaism obliges him to enlist, and in this there is no doubt that it is in the highest interest of the religion that its people continue to be religious.
And if we ask the Maimonides [in the hat of a teacher of education and not in the hat of a philosopher of ethics] whether an ultra-Orthodox person should enlist at the risk of not maintaining his religious identity, there is no doubt that he taught that [even reading books of the kind is forbidden from a religious perspective]
That is, it is clear that from a religious perspective, the religious obligation to remain a Torah-observant person outweighs his obligation to participate in the expenses of the city's citizens.
You assume that the law overrides other obligations. I don't agree at all. You can leave the country and live somewhere else, and then there's no problem. You can't dance at all the weddings, enjoy the rights and not take part in the obligations. Beyond that, I've already explained that the price is not as it is portrayed.
I repeat that this delusional discussion really embarrasses me (the need to explain such simple things).
A. I didn't understand what you said. I don't assume that the law prevails. I just said that the law assumes it. Do you disagree that from a halakhic perspective, this is the teaching. [If you have other obligations, there's no point in discussing it with someone whose only obligation is the law].
B. Is there any security or political aspect that would be beneficial if the Haredim left the country?
C. Regarding the price, this is a realistic debate. [What are the dropout rates following the transition to the secular world?] And it is likely that the prevailing public opinion is more in line with reality.
A. I definitely disagree. The halakha really doesn't say that. Caution against failure doesn't permit everything, otherwise we would all go to the deserts so as not to fail in slander.
And even if the halakha did say that, the obligation to morality is not mine but that of every mortal. You make a very strange excuse against the accusation of immorality. You say: What do you want, I am not obligated to morality. That's an excuse, that's the accusation.
And indeed, there is no point in discussing with someone who is only obligated to the halakha. That's ISIS, and ISIS is not discussed. They are dealt with in other ways.
B. There will be a great economic advantage. Security-wise, it will neither increase nor decrease. But morally, you cannot stay and enjoy the pleasures of the state and not pay your debts.
C. I have already explained that in many cases, dropping out is not because of the army. People go to the army because of dropping out. Fuck dropping out of educational institutions.
That's it, I'm done with this delusional discussion.
You don't have to answer [nor do you have to be angry].
A. Are you surprised that the Haredim are only committed to the morality that is anchored in Halacha?
B. On the other hand, if you are committed to morality, then the current morality accepted in the world completely rules out enlisting in the occupation army and requires several more values that neither you nor I feel committed to.
[The day will not be far off and they will deal with anyone who drinks from a plastic bottle, or who does not recognize a person's right to define himself as a cucumber, as they deal with ISIS]
So when you talk about morality, you are only talking about the morality that you determine that everyone is committed to [since in the Muslim world, ISIS's values are certainly accepted, at least partially, and in the Christian world, different values of equality are accepted, to which you are also not committed].
C. We are not talking about deserting the army, but rather about actually interfacing with the secular world, as opposed to those who are closed off.
Another question: If the army were to educate about racism, homophobia, Kahanism, etc. and exalt great figures such as Yigal Amir and Ben-Uliel, how many secular people would enlist and how many would evade?
You can argue that it really wouldn't be justified, but you also admit that the absolute majority wouldn't think like you [and that's what we say: you are the wise and we are the majority].
The only argument I've heard that might have something to it is that, regardless of the ultra-Orthodox, we should establish a professional army without conscription at all. That would waste far less resources (although we would have to pay a much higher salary to each soldier). I don't know if that's practical or not, but it would certainly solve the problem of equality of burden (of course, if we also eliminate all sorts of unjustified economic benefits for those who chose not to work). This somewhat supports your first argument, that if there is another option, it's better not to force conscription on those whose way of life it endangers.
This is not an argument, but a proposal. But you can't just throw it away. It requires serious examination because it's not even certain that such an option exists. Throwing out proposals like this to escape the draft obligation is useless. On the contrary, do systematic work and submit a well-organized proposal.
The one who really did professional work and submitted a well-organized proposal is Moshe Feiglin – https://www.srugim.co.il/41630-%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%99%D7%92%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%9F-%D7%94%D7%A6%D7%91%D7%90-%D7%A8%D7%A7-%D7%9E%D7%A4%D7%9C%D7%92-%D7%90%D7%AA-%D7%94%D7%A2%D7%9D-%D7%99%D7%A9-%D7%9C%D7%94%D7%A4%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%A7-%D7%90.
I didn't see the details and said I didn't know if it was really an option, just that it was worth checking.
The article came at an interesting time for me because on Saturday evening, my wife called her student, who is an officer in an elite reserve unit.
His unit was immediately mobilized at the outbreak of the events and was assigned to defend one of the Haredi cities.
His soldiers are terribly frustrated that they have stopped life while the Torah city they are defending continues its life as usual.
Texts praising the respect that garbage collectors deserve are familiar to everyone.
The soldiers are demanding to be assigned to Gaza where they can really fight or if the army does not need them to return home.
He fears that a point of no return will come and the soldiers will leave and the city will be left without military defense.
I don't know if the breaking point will be in this round or if the camel can continue to carry on for a few more years, but there will come a point when soldiers from the general public refuse to serve in the defense of Haredim, and then the Haredim should have a solution.
I think the leaders of the Haredi public are taking what you say into account and if they are instructing their flock not to enlist yet, they will understandably accept such a refusal to serve (although they certainly will not reject the willingness to protect them despite it). I assume that they truly and sincerely believe that the Torah is magna and mitzla for ordinary Haredi as well and will not back down from putting this belief to the test. I don't know if the city's residents are ready for this, but this needs to be resolved in a direct conversation with them.
What about the Seder meetings? It appears from your words that they are not legitimate, because evil is evil, no matter how small. And yet I understand that you support the Seder.
I don't understand. What's the problem with Seder yeshivot? It's an excellent solution for a service suitable for yeshivot students, which also combines Torah study. Two important and useful values. The fact that their service period is shorter is not true. Their service period is five years, and they do reserve duty like everyone else (at a much higher percentage than the others in my ranks). Even a regular soldier goes to a series of education, recreation, performances, and the like. Not to mention shechemists, cooks, and storekeepers. There's no problem with dividing the service into different periods and different tasks.
The point is that Torah study is a value that is agreed upon only by a minority of the people, or at least granting exemption from the army for the sake of this value is agreed upon only by a minority of the people. As you wrote, my personal ideology cannot exempt me from general obligations, just as we would not grant exemption to climate activists who dedicate their lives to a one-time war. Ultimately, Hesder soldiers serve less in the army, while their comrades serve more, for the sake of a value that their comrades do not believe in. What is the justification for this?
(I support the idea of an exemption for an outstanding minority, since the majority can take the minority into account in this context, but I do not see how such a blanket [partial] exemption can be justified for all members of Hesder yeshivahs)
So what? There are negotiations and agreements are reached. Service is no less significant. Many can oppose all kinds of military activities. Even protecting settlements in Judea and Samaria is not agreed upon by everyone. We have exhausted ourselves.
Just this morning I received: https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/hyienehup?utm_source=ynet.app.android&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=general_share&utm_term=hyienehup&utm_content=Header
I don't understand the argument against the argument of spoilage. Why would an ultra-Orthodox think that "the fact that you are likely to spoil, i.e. a threat to your ideology and principles, does not justify evading your civic duties to the society in which you live"? What kind of calculation is this? After all, spoilage means secularism, i.e. destruction, and if destruction is what one is supposed to give up his life for (like three serious crimes), let alone not enlist? The whole argument from morality is ridiculous. To the same extent, you can make claims against the Arabs. They are not in danger, but they benefit from Israeli citizenship, and if it is not good for them to enlist (and even worse if we are afraid to give them weapons in their hands), then let them give it up. In this rant, I hear silence from one end of the world to the other. Therefore, all the more so if I am ultra-Orthodox, I certainly do not pose a security threat to Israeli society that I would not give up my citizenship if the choice was mine. It is not that citizenship is given to Arabs out of the generosity of the Jews, but because of the fear of the world's reaction. So these are considerations of the lust for control of the secular public that wants a state and public offices - and for this they are willing to set aside the money of productive citizens to pay this protection to the Arab public. In such a delusional situation, what is even possible in making claims to an ultra-Orthodox person who does not even identify with the rest of society (which hates him no matter what he does) that on the one hand he is not willing to risk his life for the pleasures of this regime and on the other hand he is not willing to give up rights that are also given to the enemies of this regime?
It seems to me that there are levels of argument that are too embarrassing to respond to. I hope you'll forgive me.
I would be happy if you could enlighten me. The fear of secularism is super serious. The thing that most affects a person (his thoughts, feelings, and actions) is his environment. When a person lives in an environment that disregards God and His commandments, there is no chance for such a person (unless he is a special person or a philosopher) to continue to keep the commandments or even to continue to believe over time. Over time, he will simply begin to see reality through the eyes of his environment and will eventually accept its form through unconscious imitation, just as a baby learns to walk and talk by imitating the adult environment in which he is (and does not take a course in walking or talking). In the same way, interns in any profession learn the most important part of the job - the one that cannot be learned from books and is acquired only through experience (which is more important than formal education) - And what is called by the sages the use of knowledge (and it is known that its use is greater than its study). For the environment to act like this on an individual in it, it must be important in the eyes of that individual (that is why it does not affect "philosophers"). And in an environment where you are looked down upon with disdain (the vast majority of the time without even realizing it) there is no chance that it will be the one to influence the environment and not vice versa.
(This time I didn't delete, hoping that from now on you will write in a meaningful way.)
At your request, I will try to enlighten you, even though everything has already been answered here to the point. I will do so briefly.
First, even if you are completely right (and you are not), there is no justification for not paying your debts. When you owe me money, you cannot avoid paying it because the path to me may ruin you. This is your problem and you must solve it. You must pay your debts. This reminds me of the story of R’ Yehezkel Abramsky about Reuven borrowing interest from Shimon and then suing him in Torah law to have him pay back the interest. A righteous man like him is careful about the laws of interest, but only after he received the loan while deceiving the lender and paid the interest himself, which is a sin from Torah law.
Second, if the fear of being spoiled leads you to such depraved behavior that it is a terrible blasphemy (and rightly so: parasitism and falling into the public's hands, lack of basic education, failure to bear the military and economic burden, persecuting anyone who thinks differently and closing doors to exceptions, inventing groundless norms as principles of faith, and so on), your work is worthless. You need to take the risk and think about how to minimize it as much as possible.
Third, I factually disagree. There is a fear of being spoiled, but it is a fear and not an uncertainty. There is such a fear in many decisions that are made (for example, living in society and not in the desert, going to work, etc.). Beyond that, many of the spoilages stem from the Haredi community itself (which does not prepare you for service and disqualifies those who do). I have already written that in most cases, spoilage leads to conscription, and not vice versa. In many cases, spoilage is not real, but merely a deviation from Haredi norms.
I will just mention that anyone who serves risks his ideology. He may kill unjustly and may also die. The risk of eating kosher rabbinate food and seeing girls does not seem more serious to me. This goes beyond serving in cotton wool routes that are offered to the ultra-Orthodox to prevent these risks.
Two final notes:
1. The Torah was not given to the ministering angels. Torah that requires separation from the world and society in order to fulfill is not Torah. Torah is supposed to be realized within the world.
2. The Hasidim have a gem regarding the difference between Abraham and Noah, the latter being righteous with a fur coat (who warmed only himself) and the former being righteous with a stove (who warmed all the occupants of the room).
Our case is more similar to a case in which a borrower negotiates with a lender in which he reaches a compromise agreement, in which part of the debt will be written off in exchange for a certain benefit.
This is what the Haredi public does with general society: it reaches a compromise agreement in which, in exchange for partial participation in the state, it gets rid of some of its civil obligations. General society does not have to agree to this arrangement – Knesset members can unite and vote in favor of denying civil rights to those who do not enlist (“without loyalty, there is no citizenship”), which would remove the Haredi from the state and there would no longer be anyone to complain about. General society chooses not to do this for various reasons (not because of pity for the poor Haredi), and therefore it has no one to complain about.
There is no limit to the frivolity of vanity. The blackmailer announces that the blackmailed has agreed and therefore there is no moral problem. It is a transaction of giving and receiving as the definition of a reward.
Where is the blackmail here? Why can't the general public inform the Haredi public that it refuses such an unfair partnership and leave the Haredi out of the story?
I didn't understand where the obligation is in the case of conscription. How exactly does the Haredi owe someone anything because he has some startup to establish a state (especially as it seems today that it is to provide jobs and power for him and his friends. But let's say)? He certainly doesn't have to protect him, but why must the Haredi protect him while he dismisses him from the work of the ’ (whether knowingly or unknowingly)? Today it is already agreed, even according to you, that there is always a religion for a person. If not the Torah, then another religion (like Progressive, etc.)
Indeed, the fear of corruption does not justify falling on the public and the public certainly does not have to uphold it, but all the other claims are irrelevant. The mentality of the Haredim is old-fashioned Eastern European (not to mention primitive), and from it stems the lack of education and the other things that are wrong with it (such as lack of readiness, lack of tolerance for deviation, etc.) and not from Harediness itself (the fact that there were educated Haredim in Germany), and it is not appropriate to make accusations against them for this, just as it is not appropriate to make accusations against the Arabs because of their mentality (this is similar, by the way, to the relationship between Eastern European Orthodox Christians and Western Protestant Christians. The former are also a type of Haredi Christians in relation to the latter). It is like making accusations against a child for being a child. But a child is certainly more susceptible to influence from the environment than a teenager or an adult. And we see that quite a few religious Zionists (even modern Torah scholars and not Haredi) also lose their fear of God in the army. Perhaps in such a situation there really is a prohibition against being in their company. Even a society of ultra-Orthodox fanatics is bad in such a case – and this is something that borders on killing and not passing away. When it comes to work, there is no choice and one has to make a living and a slight fear (since at work the society is not as tight and pressuring as in the army) will not be rejected for life. But here it is not a slight fear but a very serious fear (I am not talking about cotton candy routes).
Again, I do not care what prices someone else will pay for ideology. So he will not enlist either. I believe in reward and punishment and for me becoming secular is killing and not passing away (I personally also feel that a secular life is worse than death and the fact that they do not feel this is the worst part)
I think Magna and Mitzvah are suffering from the consequences.
Look at the issue I brought up and you can see that it is not.
Rabbi Yoel Ben Nun also understands the issue this way:
https://www.inn.co.il/news/623488
I am Haredi, I recently had a discussion on this subject with some avrechim and raised the four reasons presented here (blessed is my intention), but my conclusion was slightly different. I agree with the position presented here regarding the last three reasons, but not regarding the first reason.
The author believes that a person is committed to the moral principle of carrying the public burden even at the cost of significant spiritual risk. Forgive me, this position is clearly illogical; the religious worldview holds that the purpose of life is to advance in the work of God, and commitment to the principle of carrying the burden is only one detail of the whole that makes up the progress towards the goal. As soon as one detail jeopardizes the entire goal, it is clear that we must reject. After all, it is like someone who would agree to play Russian roulette in exchange for an upgrade in their standard of living. What is the upgrade worth if there is a serious risk to life itself?
I suppose the reason the author ignores this logic is:
a) either because he does not believe that military service poses a significant spiritual risk;
b) or because he believes that a risk to the Haredi identity is not problematic (in fact, he believes it is good for this identity to be harmed).
c) or because he does not consider a spiritual risk to be such a serious problem.
And all three reasons may be correct.
I think it is unnecessary to explain why the Haredi position vehemently disputes the above claims (the reality of the spiritual impact of military service on the national religious public speaks for itself. One cannot argue with facts, not even a great philosopher like the author of the column), and in any case, from a Haredi perspective, avoiding military conscription is completely justified. Those who don't like it can try to change the situation by legislation in the Knesset, or unfortunately be content with anger and curses at the Haredim, and perhaps a few columns angry about the matter, as is already customary in the place of the state. But that doesn't make the claim acceptable from a rational Haredi perspective.
However, I do think that if there was a sincere desire on both sides, it would be possible to solve this problem by creating an independent Haredi wing that would contribute to the security of the state without being subject to the IDF's worldview. Unfortunately, I don't think there is such a desire either on the part of the Haredi public, which prefers to continue ignoring the problem as if it doesn't concern them, or on the part of the secular public, which wants the Haredim in the army but only on its own terms, which of course won't happen.
PS The column did not explain the problem in the second reason. The writer may be angry about the Haredi opposition to Zionism, but this is not a moral claim but an ideological one that has been around since the days of Zionism, and therefore it does not explain the problematic nature of the claim according to Haredi ideology. My explanation of the problematic nature of this claim was as follows: opposition to Zionism constitutes a good justification only for extremists who would truly prefer to live in a Palestinian state over partnership with the Zionists, but for the absolute majority of the Haredi public who would prefer to live in the State of Israel than in a Palestinian state even at the cost of enlisting in the Zionist army, opposition to Zionism is irrelevant. Once they have chosen to accept the benefits of the state, they must also bear the debts.
By the way, regarding the “Torah, Magna, and Mitzla” It is proven from the sources themselves (apart from reality) that this does not necessarily work: we find in several places that Torah study did not protect the people because of various sins (David versus Ahab, the destruction of the Second Temple), which means that the concept of "Torah protects and protects" is theoretical and cannot be relied upon in reality. Based on this approach, the Radbash claims that only a Tzvi who agrees to forgo the observance can be exempted from paying taxes. Is the Haredi public willing to forgo the protection of the army?
https://mikyab.net/posts/83788/#comment-78363
Does non-combat service also require leaving the Beit Midrash?
And if non-combat service, is there a specific interest in the IDF or is it possible to contribute in other ways?
What's the matter? You can go to the bathroom during your lunch break, fight there, and return to study in the afternoon.
The discussion is not about donating, but about the obligation to fulfill duties.
Is the obligation specifically military or any civilian service?
Morally, specifically the military. Legally, what the law allows you in your situation without lying.
What's the point of an army if I don't go to war in the army, then what does it matter if it's called the IDF or the MDA or the United Hatzalah if in the army I fulfill my duty as a (physical!!) servant to the state?
As for the question of what happened before the Hasmoneans, the answer is that they really died on the Sabbath because they did not fight (Hasmoneans 1 and 2).
By the way, it is also recorded there that Judah Maccabee released before the Battle of Beit Horon those who are listed in Parashat Shofitim to solve it, even though this is clearly the saving of Israel from a time of trouble or a war of commandment.
I'm not sure I can accept such slander.
At least be careful (not fight with followers who go to caves or something)
The one who demanded that it “even descend on Shabbat” is Shammai, and not, as our Rabbi said, the court of the Hasmoneans.
From this I learn that our Rabbi also subconsciously remembered the Mebanar in the book Hasmoneans cited above.
Abolish Torah in order to pack and prepare food for soldiers and evacuees from the south (not Pikuach Nefesh)?
Abandoning Torah to clean the house and prepare food and go to work (not Pikuach Nefesh)?
It seems to me that a simpler solution can be offered to the Rambam's contradiction regarding a mitzvah war: In chapter 6, the Rambam speaks about the law of calling for peace, in accordance with what is written in the Torah: "Only the people, the cattle, and all that is in the city, all its spoils, you shall utterly destroy." Thus you shall do to all the cities that are very far from you, which are not of the cities of these nations. Only of the cities of these nations, which the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not live, no soul shall live, because they will not teach you to do according to all their abominations, which they have done to their gods; and you have sinned against the Lord your God. What emerges from the verses is that the judgment, “No soul shall live,” is In the case where the city does not surrender, it is said only about the people of Canaan, because there is a fear that leaving them alive (when they did not surrender and accepted the commandments of the children of Noah) will cause them to sin against the people of Israel. If so, there is no problem with Maimonides not also mentioning the war of Ezra Israel from Mead Tzr, since even though it is a war of commandment according to his view, the women and children must still be saved.
In the Bible, we see that he is talking about all wars, and in all of them the enemy is killed unless they have received the Seven Commandments.
There is another claim that the rabbi did not address in the column. It is that the army is not run according to the Torah but according to the narrow interests of politicians, and the Haredim are not willing to risk themselves in a war that the cabinet embarks on with the aim of making political profit and nothing more, or to risk themselves in order not to harm the enemy's citizens, and other claims of this kind that do not rely on the politicians' system of considerations (in Benny Brown's Guide to Haredi Society, in the chapter on the Haredi attitude towards the state, I believe he brings many quotes on the subject of Rabbi Schach). And of course, this can be proven by the Bnei Brak municipality or the Haredi educational institutions, which are run only according to the Holy Torah and not according to any momentary whim of an institution director.
Are you serious??
Are the Haredim afraid of foreign considerations?!
There is no limit to the audacity.
Totally serious. Familiar claim
I can only suggest that they enlist and run the army themselves, and then everything will look better.
That's right. They will be drafted and really promoted……. See the entry by Brigadier General Winter and Api with them. They don't even promote right-wingers. They are really a junta. They don't even count the political echelon. Read an article that originally came out today.
This is a serious and even true claim, and I say this as a religious Zionist who served in the army. What is happening now in Gaza is a scandal. Soldiers are dying for nothing so that the country will not be boycotted and so that people can live at a standard of living that they are used to. Instead of setting Gaza on fire with firestorms and killing hundreds of Gazans and without making calculations about what will happen next, they are even willing to send their own sons to be killed and are confusing the laws of war. A bunch of crazy people
"And without doing any calculations, what will happen next?" Is this also a serious claim?
Of course. That's how the state was founded, for example, and that's how we won the Six-Day War. If we were to make calculations there, we would have to commit suicide. The meaning of mutual guarantee is not just one for all, but all for one. What's important is that there won't be a stupid and meaningless death. Meaninglessness is the worst thing here. Not death. If we all endure suffering that has meaning (meaning that will ultimately lead to a happy ending), it would be a thousand times better than even one soldier dying a meaningless death.
All the wicked in the world are people who make calculations about what will happen next and who lack faith in justice (they don't want to come off as suckers) and in the fact that crime doesn't pay.
It's very strange to me that you don't understand this yourself.
I thought there couldn't be a worse person than Bibi at the head of the government. I was wrong.
The problem is not what you think, but that you don't think, but rather emotional. If you don't understand what I said, then I definitely don't want to be your prime minister or serve in the same army with you. If most of the army really thinks like you, then it's lucky I left reserve service before the age of release.
Indeed, to you.
But you didn't think.
First of all, kudos to the rabbi, I agree with all of the rabbi's logical and most of his scholarly arguments.
However, I have a question. The rabbi did not mention the fact that the Gemara in Baba Batra actually says that even a scholar must pay for digging a cistern (“to dig a pitya”) and in any case, I do not understand the situation whereby there is a “selective use” of the concept when the Gemara itself makes a selective use (a clearly illogical distinction that the Gemara makes, if I may, but still) so that the Gemara already makes a distinction between a maintenance tax and simple taxes related to subsistence, such as digging cisterns.
I definitely mentioned it, and I also explained the difference there. For some reason you decided that it wasn't logical, but I assume there is a distinction behind it regarding the different types of observance (the Gemara does not suggest that a person should not drink).
I don't have the opportunity to write a regular response, so I'm writing here.
I really don't agree with the tone and the claim that there is no need to write about compulsory military service because of all his raids.
This may be a 9-shot for someone who doesn't believe in the Torah.
But for someone who does, there are plenty of reasons to be wrong about this. (Alef below and so on’)
I suppose even the rabbi himself was wrong about this issue in the past.
The rabbi refers to the fact that beyond the halakha and its boundaries, one must obey the laws of the state because the law is the law, etc.
Similarly, the exemption to preserve principles (however illusory they may be) must be granted by the state and not revoked, etc.
Does the current situation in which the state legally allows a person whose Torah is his training to exercise and postpone conscription
contradict this?
(It is true that Ben-Gurion granted this to a few hundred, but those coming from the right and left, the mandate holders, sign it from time to time
to secure their political seat)
Or as the rabbi answered here before: that the Haredim should enlist and run the army however they please.
Let us also enter politics and change the law however we please.
You touched on a point briefly, but I think it is very important.
The fact that there is really no need for all the soldiers.
According to many economists and security officials, there is no need for a large army, but rather a small, professional army. A type of: Israeli mercenaries, who will fill positions in the army. The motivation: ideology/high pay, etc.
So, ”compulsory conscription” and – ”people's army”, this is not a military necessity, but a Zionist ideology. Such as: agriculture, settlement, and more
In the face of concepts such as: enlisting to save lives, war, protection, the ideological claims of the Haredim fall apart. And so does the fear of spoilage.
But when the demand to enlist is essentially an ideology (the people's army).. In contrast, it is morally correct to place the Haredi ideology: anti-Zionist, corruption, etc.
The Haredi will argue to you: The army will be honored, and it will be relevant. Abolish the compulsory conscription law. Entice people to enlist in the campaign with money or propaganda, build a professional army.
Thus, a secular mother who buries her son, it will be because he chose the profession, and was not forced.
As mentioned, professionally it is applicable.
As long as there is general compulsory conscription, and it is necessary in one way or another, then the Haredim should also conscript. There is also no need for all taxes, so is it a permit not to pay taxes? The Haredim have had great political power for decades, they could initiate almost any reasonable move that would lead to widespread conscription of Haredim in a very short period of time, and would encounter much less opposition than their current use of their political power in favor of falling on the shoulders of the public. If they want to cancel compulsory conscription - let them have the honor and cancel it. Let them offer a concrete proposal, backed by their leaders, stand behind it, and try to push it. What severe punishment do they deserve for decades of plunder and oppression and distortion of the political map - that is the next thing to think about.
You should update your arguments. The argument about the small army is from the time of the fool's paradise that was here when Bibi bribed Hamas and avoided a confrontation with Hezbollah.
Even then, it was complete nonsense because it was about a routine army, but it is clear that in a war they will have to recruit half a million people, and this is not something that can be financed with a salary.
Since Black Sabbath, we have updated our version and now we are talking about the need to drastically increase the army.
Starting next year, compulsory service will be extended by 4 more months for secular men and the number of reserve days will probably be doubled.
1. If I didn't go to war then what's the point of the army if I don't go to war anyway then what does it matter if it's called the IDF or the MDA or the United Hatzalah if in the KH I fulfill my duty as a (physical!!) servant to the state?
2. If I believe that studying Torah does contribute and add rights to the people of Israel then what is better, sitting to study or preparing food for the soldiers?
3. What if the salary is 1000 down, etc.?
Fulfilling your duty to the state means putting yourself in the position of the state that it chooses to fulfill, and not helping in a way that is given to you by choice. Conscription means letting the state determine what kind of service you will give it. Determining for yourself how you will help is volunteering, not conscription.
It is unlikely that an ultra-Orthodox person would be given a choice in how to fulfill his duty, and a non-Orthodox person would not be given such a choice and would be sent wherever the state chose to send him - and would end up in a military prison if he refused to go to the kind of service the state decided to send him to. It is clear that ultra-Orthodox people should not be given any choice that is not given to non-Orthodox people like them.
You believe that adding education adds rights (and a right against everyone else) and that these rights reduce stigmatization of the Jewish people.. so it contributes..
The commandment to return to the Land of Israel is considered to be the fulfillment of all thirteen commandments
(Books of Parshat Ra'eh)
The war on it is more than the commandment of the Ten Commandments
Talmud Torah also stands against all of them. Rabbi Volva has already insisted that there are some commandments that are equivalent to the entire Torah, which of course creates a paradox. And the solution is that every such equivalence speaks of a different aspect, and in any case, no conclusion can be drawn from such equivalence (unless you have come to the conclusion of what that aspect is).
They wrote about me that he is more dangerous than any pornographic website.
And they didn't realize how much that site saves even from the perspective of the Haredim. It provides a possibility for ventilation and the opportunity to raise questions instead of suppressing in the Haredim way that in many cases leads to an explosion.
It is very interesting that avoiding conscription for the purpose of studying Torah (for a certain number of people) is justified “so that there is something to live for”, while avoiding conscription in order to observe the Torah properly (not to eat rabbinate or see a woman wearing pants), is not justified.
This is not the place to discuss the kosher nature of the rabbinate and the nature of pants for a woman, but it is enough that there are people who see these as negative things, so that they avoid conscription because of this.
What does the Rabbi do with this?
“Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi said, from what it is written: (Psalms 122:2) Our feet stood at the gates of Jerusalem? Who made our feet stand in battle? The gates of Jerusalem that were engaged in Torah”.
Sanhedrin, page 44:1:
“Rabbi Abba bar Kahana said: If it had not been for David, Joab would not have waged war, and if it had not been for Joab, David would not have engaged in Torah.
As it is written (2 Samuel 8:15-16) And David executed judgment and righteousness for all his people. And Joab ben Zeruiah was over the army.
Why did David execute justice and righteousness for all his people? Because of Joab over the army.
Why did Joab over the army? Because of David execute justice and righteousness for all his people?
A thousand thousand thousand thousand
I didn't understand the question. What am I supposed to do with these hackneyed quotes?
In the Book of Remembrance of the Lord,
Talmud Torah is a great mitzvah, and even ‘ezrat Yisrael from the time of trouble’ – is a great mitzvah. Regarding the relationship between Tahsut and the other mitzvot,
it is said in the Responsorial Psalm of Yom Kippur, 18: ‘Talmud Torah is equal to all the mitzvot. Before him was the performance of a mitzvah and the study of Torah – If it is possible for a mitzvah to be performed by others, he should not stop studying Talmud; and if not – he should perform the mitzvah and return to his Torah’. And the source of the matter is in the G. In a mitzvah that can be performed by others, it is said, "All things shall not be equal to it, even the things of heaven."
It is reasonable to say that even if there is no shortage of soldiers who do not study Torah, there is a virtue in Torah-trained warriors whose fighting out of deep faith and consciousness adds strength and power to the warriors, but for this, a warrior needs a solid military and Torah foundation. Those who come to the army out of diligence and deepening their years in yeshiva have a chance that their Torah will add to their military contribution. Therefore, there is value in frameworks such as "mechinot," "sesder yeshivas," or "sesder merkaz," and "phase two" And so on, that their soldiers come to the army from a solid Torah foundation, and together with proper military training – make a significant contribution to the army.
But it is difficult for me to see a real military need for someone who rushes into the army straight from the yeshiva bench and undergoes a hasty two-week basic training. I fear that he may feel good that he has ’done something’, but it is difficult for me to see a real contribution to the success of the fighting. ‘A mitzvah war’ needs proper ’kosher mitzvah’.
There was a lieutenant colonel in this war who rushed without permission to fight in Gaza, and the army dismissed him because his ’heroic volunteerism’ came at the expense of his position in the ’ground training center’, a position that may be less impressive but no less essential.
With greetings, Fishel
Something that Bnei Torah can perhaps contribute, and its importance cannot be overstated, is: filling in for teachers and rabbis who are drafted into the reserve. When I was in the sixth grade at Netiv Meir during the Yom Kippur War, my rabbi, Rabbi Nissan Kaplan, was drafted for several months. His place was filled by Prof. Chaim Soloveitchik (son of the rabbi) and then by Rabbi Yosef Ben-Porat (son-in-law of the Rosh Yeshiva, Rabbi Aryeh Bina).
The added value of increasing the connection to Judaism to strengthen the spirit of the fighters, exists not only among observant soldiers. Therefore, I proposed to implement a ‘categorical deferral’, according to which every three years of studying Judaism would be considered one year of service in the IDF. It is better for the soldier to serve in the army for less time, but recognizing the ‘light in Judaism’ will increase the quality of his military service.
Best regards, Fishel
In the 20th century, the real solution may be to create a professional and efficient army. In recent years, there has been a growing process of increasing recruitment cycles while reducing combat forces.
Instead of increasing the number of free and inefficient labor forces, we will establish an efficient and motivated army. The combat forces will be strengthened by providing significant incentives to volunteers, such as combining combat service with state-funded academic studies. Similar to the yeshiva arrangement, we will also create an academic arrangement in which the soldier will serve in the army for two years and study for a bachelor's degree for three years, thus anchoring volunteering to combat service.
At the same time, we will create tracks for units of professional combat support personnel, where they will serve for, for example, three years and study for two years, while receiving serious professional training for responsible positions - computing, communications, technology, medicine, organization and management - that will ensure a small and professional army.
Those who wish to volunteer can do so within the framework of civilian national service, which will also provide incentives.
Mandatory conscription into the army is unnecessary and ineffective. The army needs to become an elitist framework - where service will bring both a sense of satisfaction and a significant economic and social incentive. We will transform the army from a burden to an opportunity for advancement.
Best regards, Fishel
And there is no fear that there will be a shortage of recruits. Our nation is a nation of generous hearts, and it is fitting that the Haredim of the Word of God are known as volunteers for charity and rescue organizations. When service is not forced and in an atmosphere suitable for Torah followers, they will be the first to volunteer!
Best regards, Fishel
This video is very suitable for sharing in this column
https://x.com/AryeErlich/status/1734529188160282845?t=tJ_cBboCdBTbjoie4dgE1g&s=08
Deleted, here is a partial replacement
https://twitter.com/AviRabina/status/1734517883433075138
Every oppressed
= Every hungry
Somehow, by mistake, it was adopted into Hebrew instead of every one who wants, every one who is interested, etc.
It was accidentally taken from the Seder Haggadah
It would be appropriate for the Rabbi to correct this
Absolutely not by mistake. Nor is it appropriate for my honor to correct it, because there is nothing to correct. This is the way of idioms and expressions.
I heard about ‘Putin with braids’
A girl who cares about a green climate and other vegetables but hates Israel, Tuba
Who was the rabbi referring to at the beginning of the column?
Good evening!
The rabbi did not mention a main principle: It is stated in Chazal that King David, and so it was in Israel's wars, organized the army and left a group of learners.
In other words, just as there are different companies, so there is a company of learners. And so we see that part of the combat tactics is also to leave those who learn.
And this is also the case in the war of Mitzvah and Pik'n.
I commented. In my opinion, this has no contribution to the fighting and certainly if they are needed, no one should be exempted. What David did, he did. There is no such rule.
https://www.facebook.com/100003376416321/posts/pfbid038DsfNjDXK7ctWsmbrfNKqCS59z2njBLo9RgnHvmswVpyAgs94CAydLVm8UiVH35Fl/?mibextid=Nif5oz
A question in the words of the Rambam ” Do his words about the tribe of Levi contradict his words in the laws of Talmud Torah?
….. And he lifted from his neck the burden of the many accounts that people have asked for
For this is sanctified, the Holy of Holies
And the Lord will be his portion and inheritance forever and ever
And he will merit him with a blessing that is sufficient for him, just as he merited the priests and Levites,…..
May the Lord merit him! It is not said that he can receive priestly gifts or tithes – Clearly, these are words of legend, blessings,
and not a debt imposed on the public.
Here is an article with the opposite opinion about the army:
https://www.hyehudi.org/%d7%9e%d7%9b%d7%aa%d7%91-%d7%90%d7%99%d7%a9%d7%99-%d7%a0%d7%92%d7%93-%d7%94%d7%92%d7%99%d7%95%d7%a1-%d7%9c%d7%a6%d7%94%d7%9c-%d7%a9%d7%a0%d7%a9%d7%9c%d7%97-%d7%9c%d7%a8%d7%91-%d7%93%d7%aa%d7%99/
There is an interesting answer about conscription in the response of Hatam Sofer in the collection of Teshuvot 29, and in his words he writes as follows: “A body concerned with the law of the kingdom is to impose a tax on all its people to provide men for its war army, and this is the law of its kingdom and its law. In any case, a tax is imposed on anyone who is fit to go out and who does not have a wife and children, according to the etiquette and law of its kingdom, but not the chosen ones; Torah scholars, who are not exempt from the kingdom in any way, are exempt from the law of the Torah, as stated in the Book of Deuteronomy 2:2; 1:1, 2:1, 3:1, 4:1, 5:1, 6:1, 7:1, 8:1, 9:1, 10:1, 11:1, 12:1, 13:1, 14:1, 15:1, 16:1, 17:1, 18:1, 19:2, 20:2, 21:2, 22:2, 23:2, 24:2, 25:2, 26:2, 27:2, 28:2, 29:3, 30:3, 41:4, 51:4, 52:5, 61:6, 18:1, 19:1, 19:2, 20:3, 19:4, 19:5, 10:5, 11:5, 12:1, 13:1, 14:1, 15:1, 16:1, 17:1, 18:1, 19:2, 20:3, 19:4, 19:5, 19:6, 19:6, 19:7, 19:8, 10:1, 11:1, 11:1, Rabbis and the Lord said, "Do not give in to the food, but give in to the food. Rabbis, I am not a son of a man who gives in to the food of Ninhu."
Your Honor, your posts are good for the soul!!! I have no other words to describe it, I don't know of a rabbi or public figure who explains himself so well.
Yossi, but he is an apocryphal (R”L) ….
It is interesting to see that the prophet discusses what the law would be if the entire city were a city of Tahsih and he concludes that they would have to pay for building a wall for the city because "it is possible for all the rabbis to be able to force them to build a wall." The rabbis should follow the custom of the world and not rely on the miracle of standing in a dangerous place, and they said that the custom of the rabbis is the custom of the rabbis.
According to his words, it follows that when the G-d says that the rabbis do not need guarding and therefore they do not have to pay for guarding the city, this is just an excuse for why the people of the land should serve the talmidei sahacham and not a substantive explanation???
The argument of the Chazva is puzzlingly simple, because the Gema says that the problem came because of the people of the land and therefore the scholars are exempt from paying for damage that was not caused by them. If the Chazva cannot avoid building a wall even if there are no people of the land in the area, then this proves that the damage did not come because of the people of the land but because that is the way of the world, and if so, even when there are people of the land, there is no reason to blame the damage on them!
And indeed, the Radbaz believes that the Gema is only talking about scholars who are willing to rely on the right of their Torah, and therefore there is no distinction between a city that is entirely Chazva and a city that is divided among people of the land.
It should probably be said that in the Chazva's opinion, this is a "religious tax" That the sages imposed on the people of the land because of their lack of concern for the Torah, and what the Gamma says that the calamity came because of the people of the land is only to explain conceptually the logic of this tax (meaning that it is not necessarily that the damage in a particular case came because of the people of the land, but that in general they cause more damage in the world).
It doesn't matter why the Sages decided that the people of the lands should pay, but the main conclusion is that even the prophet admits that there is no special protection for the Torah scholars, and so on, for other people, and so on, what do the Haredim claim!
Not accurate. This statement does not mean that there is no special guarding, but that this guarding alone is not enough. But when there are other guards, the Tah”H must be exempted. Exactly what the Haredim say.
What is your opinion here? If there is protection for Torah scholars, then we will always exempt them, even if there are only Torah scholars. And if there is no protection, then we will never exempt them.
A classic fallacy of dilemma arguments. There's no point in giving a test, because the diligent will learn even without it and the lazy won't learn even with it. Think about it for a moment and you'll see that this is a null and unfounded argument.
I disagree with the wording. The words of the prophet only say that the TNA also needs protection, but when there are others to bear the burden, that is enough for them. If there are none, then they must organize their own protection. It is not just serving the TNA, because they are also protecting themselves.
If the prophet believes that there is no special protection for the Torah scholars, then why are the Torah scholars really exempt?
[Even if we interpret it as Moses wrote above, this is a tax that the Torah scholars imposed on the peoples of the lands because they are more harmful, it is still not clear why the Torah scholars have a blanket exemption]
An article by Professor David Haneshka, who also refutes the claims of the Haredi in classic scholarly terms:
https://www.makorrishon.co.il/opinion/759649/