On Theology and Sociopathy (Column 677)
With God’s help
Disclaimer: This post was translated from Hebrew using AI (ChatGPT 5 Thinking), so there may be inaccuracies or nuances lost. If something seems unclear, please refer to the Hebrew original or contact us for clarification.
Sorry to return once more to the same hackneyed point, but it really annoys me every single time. These days draw a lot of anger out of me and sharpen old points.
Rogel Alpher
A few weeks ago I saw a post by Rogel Alpher (my interlocutor from this debate), who—as is his way—vulgarly lays into believers and into God. But on second thought, to my great embarrassment I found myself agreeing with every word of his, except for the conclusion. First I’ll bring it here in full, so that you too can enjoy:
|
Are missiles falling? It’s all because of the settlement of Moreshet A direct hit on a house in Moreshet A house hit by a rocket in Moreshet. “We need to do some soul-searching,” confessed the settlement’s spokeswoman, “and thank the Holy One, blessed be He, and improve our deeds some more, and thank some more. And more.” The settlement of Moreshet is to blame for Hezbollah’s missile attack on Sunday morning. Its residents’ wayward behavior brought it upon them. Exactly like Sodom and Gomorrah. But God decided to spare them at the last moment, to give them a chance. “We had a great miracle,” declared Orit Spitz, spokeswoman for the settlement located near “Rafael,” in an interview on Channel 14. “A great miracle,” she repeated and emphasized. “The damage here is enormous. Two 100-kilo missiles fell; enormous damage was caused to houses, to cars, to roads. But thank God… there are no casualties; everyone is fine.” Above her head, in the upper left corner of the screen, was the channel’s motto since the October 7 massacre: “With God’s help, together we will win.” Spitz expressed thinking typical of the fundamentalist and mass religious cult that has grown here, convinced that the settlement of Moreshet is located at the center of the universe. But why did God, the omnipotent, responsible for everything that happens to the residents of Moreshet, send via Hezbollah two heavy missiles toward them that merely frightened them and caused “enormous damage to houses, to cars, to roads”? Worthy of an investigation on “Uvda.” And if not on “Uvda,” then at least in Moreshet. “We already thought this morning about how the community will sit down or hold some kind of soul-searching, some kind of thanksgiving meal, something, some kind of rectification in the community,” explained Spitz. It wasn’t Nasrallah who decided to launch missiles that accidentally hit Moreshet. God decided to launch the missiles toward Moreshet so that its residents would do soul-searching and rectification. And perhaps even a “thanksgiving meal.” This is a meal in which the residents thank God for having launched two missiles at them to call them to order because they did what was evil in His eyes, yet He spared their lives, out of faith that they will internalize the message and mend their ways. This God is a violent, sadistic psychopath. According to the cult’s belief, Nasrallah is not Israel’s enemy, since he is only carrying out the will of the God of Israel, the omnipotent. God is the “enemy,” who is nothing but a cruel lover. In fact, there is no Arab or Iranian enemy. There is only God. “We need to do some soul-searching,” Spitz confessed, “and thank the Holy One, blessed be He, and improve our deeds some more, and thank some more. And more.” The cult members in Moreshet intend to thank God for the missiles. Blessed is He who brings missiles out of the land of Lebanon. “What empowering statements,” the studio host enthused, and recalled that “this settlement took a blow already at the beginning of the week, when they lost Captain Daniel Maimon, age 23, who fell in Rafah.” Spitz also referred to this, emphasizing that rectification in the community is required following “two difficult events within one week.” For Maimon, the sadistic, bloodthirsty God did not have mercy. And the settlement is preparing for a thanksgiving meal. Maimon also died because that is the will of God, as part of the re-education series He is giving to Moreshet. “Really salute them for these clear statements and this resilience,” the host praised. When the fighting intensifies, the statement empowers. Religious fundamentalists celebrate their dead saints on both sides of the Israel–Lebanon border. War as a theological event, not a military-strategic one. I, who only yesterday ate a ham and gouda sandwich and publicly say that God is a sociopath, am not required to do any rectification or thanksgiving. And for now God isn’t trying to kill me with missiles. But if He does try, I will immediately know whom to blame: the sinful residents of Moreshet. Because of them I too will have to die. |
I assume some of you got really angry reading this. So take a deep breath, and now try to think about it again. What exactly is wrong in what he wrote?
Dividing the tasks and the thank-yous
A common phenomenon in our circles is that we excitedly thank God for every salvation, but forget to blame Him for the trouble from which we were saved. We thank Him for coming out safely from a car accident, but don’t really blame Him for the accident itself. Regarding the accident—this is human responsibility; regarding the outcome—at least if it’s positive—that’s God. If it’s negative, then either it’s not God, or who can know His ways. The punctilious will say that everything is for the best and that a person must bless for the bad just as he blesses for the good. From now on, please recite Birkat HaGomel after you have died in a car accident.
All sorts of characters point to the miracles that befell us and our forefathers in the Iron Swords War, such as the renowned theologian Aryeh Deri. He declares without batting an eyelid (I’m copying the subheadline):
The Shas chairman broke a long silence, in an interview to the Shas house organ, and said on the anniversary of the war that “if we had faith that everything is for the best, today we are also beginning to understand it.” He explained the importance of promoting the draft-exemption law: “Every day of learning prevents days of battle.”
Or another exemplary sentence:
We are beginning to understand the magnitude of the miracles and wonders of this difficult year.
You don’t know whether to laugh or cry at this sociopathic detachment. Only now does Deri begin to understand the wondrous miracles that brought about the deaths, rapes, kidnappings—in fact the slaughter—of thousands of Israelis: soldiers, women, the elderly, and children. The wondrous miracle of the Holocaust that happened to us.
Dov Halbertal wrote about this beautifully:
| I have no doubt that Deri, the fundamentalist, would also see the Holocaust as a miracle. Because many more than 6,000,000 Jews could have been killed. Many more. The gas chambers—also a miracle. Because death there could have taken much longer. And the concentration camps? An even greater miracle. Because the fact that American Jews weren’t in the extermination camps—is that not a miracle?
And since there is no limit to Deri’s obtuseness—and his boot-lickers, the ministers and MKs in Shas—while soldiers fall to protect his pointless life, he speaks about not drafting yeshiva students. If I had to focus on the truly great miracle—and I say honestly, I can’t understand it—it’s how secular soldiers are willing to enlist, willing to be blinded, lose limbs, be bereaved, be buried in military cemeteries, when they hear words of arrogance and moral abysses like Deri’s. The miracle is how secular people are willing to die so that Deri can bathe in his jacuzzi, and his sons and grandsons and great-grandsons won’t serve in the army, and his Chief Rabbi will send all the Haredim abroad. The reality that there is a single secular soldier who is willing to enlist is a miracle even greater than the miracle of the Holocaust. |
Although this provocateur usually annoys me, this time he took the words right out of my mouth.
Indeed, for Deri and his colleagues a miracle occurred which, in my view, makes the Exodus and the splitting of the sea pale in comparison. True, thousands of Israelis are dead, kidnapped, suffering, and groaning—but as far as the Haredim are concerned, that happens in Africa too. What does that have to do with them? Their lives go on entirely as usual. Not a dog sharpened its tongue at the Haredim. There no one died, no one was kidnapped, there are no bereaved families, no reservist families with hundreds of reserve days a year (yes, yes, I know there are two Haredim who do serve in “Shachar Kachol,” and, oh yes, there’s also ZAKA), and the budgets keep flowing. The situation has never been better. Strawberries and cream.
Moreover, along with all this, the suckers (that is, all of us) allow him and the rest of the lowlifes with him to continue cynically exploiting all of us as never before, led by their rabbis, “greats,” and politicians—with the marvelous cooperation of the “Religious Zionism” party. I don’t know whether they and their leaders are more detached from their Zionism or from their religiosity. Meanwhile, of course, the Haredim don’t stop whining about persecution, forced conversion, and hatred of Haredim. They continue at full throttle to rob the public coffers, which themselves are suffering because of the situation, and in parallel work to pass the Rabbis Law (the “jobs law”) A, B, or C; the evasion laws (euphemistically: the Draft Law); the corruption of the Chief Rabbinate (or whatever remains there to corrupt—not much), the daycare law, and the rest of the Haredi robbery and parasitism laws. All this is being done while they themselves sit in a government that extends compulsory service and reserve duty, increases the tax burden on the public, and of course is the one assigning military tasks to the soldiers and to the families who send them to their deaths. But again, none of this, of course, pertains to them. The soldiers and the general public, to them, are foreign workers. In their feeling, all this is happening in Africa—what’s it got to do with them?! Right now, Yoav Ben-Tzur, may he live long, the Minister of Labor (for the non-Haredim) and Welfare (for the Haredim), is freezing daycare subsidies for everyone—including reservists, of course—since the law doesn’t allow him to rob the public till and funnel daycare subsidies to kollel students so they can continue shirking. So from his perspective, let everyone die in the army and let their families pay thousands of shekels they don’t have, until he can resume the plunder at leisure. Some shoot and cry, and some send them to die and then sit on their backs and rob them (see the cartoon in Column 655).
This is in fact an accurate description of the personality disorder called “sociopathy,” nowadays referred to as “Antisocial Personality Disorder.” In Wikipedia it is described thus:
Antisocial personality disorder (inEnglish: Antisocial Personality Disorder; inabbreviation ASPD) is apersonality disorder characterized by persistent patterns ofbehavior lackingempathy, impulsivity, violation of social norms, and aggressive behavior. The disorder is classified and diagnosed by the American Psychiatric Association (DSM) in Cluster B personality disorders, and also appears in the International Classification of Diseases (ICD) as Dissocial Personality Disorder.
In our case this is a diagnosis of public conduct and not necessarily of individuals (though some Haredi representatives clearly display these traits). Haredi society conducts itself sociopathically—straight out of the textbook. How does this malicious cynicism not cause people to take up arms in the streets, or at least refuse orders and not enlist?! To me that’s a greater miracle than what the maidservant saw at the sea. As the saying goes: Deri was right. Completely.
The nexus of sociopathy and theology
Why do I connect Haredi sociopathic parasitism and wickedness to the delusional theology I opened with? Because in my estimation these are two aspects of the same thing: detachment from common sense, from morality, and from the world around them. By their ideology the Haredim live in Noah’s Ark, and all the floodwaters outside that carry them on their palms and backs do not touch them. From their perspective, it’s happening in Africa. In their view, right now the verse “nations shall pasture your flocks” is being fulfilled upon them. The days of the Messiah have arrived, when the whole world works and supports them so they can continue in their crooked ways. Only advanced autism or a collective sociopathy such as exists in Haredi society can lead to such an egregious injustice and to obtuseness and cynicism unmatched by the worst of humankind. The Haredi, delusional ideology and theology, which sees everything that happens as the work of God and human beings as extras whose purpose is to ignore the world and all that is in it, leads to sociopathy. And yes, I know there are nice and good Haredim, and there are charitable enterprises, and various other things. That pertains to individuals. Haredi society as a collective is a distorted, parasitic, evil, and detached society—downright sociopathic. Truly inconceivable.
If you want a clear expression of the link between this sociopathic detachment and theology, here is an example. As is known, Goldknopf declared in the sukkah of Malchieli of Shas (if you ever wondered what a “band of wicked men” is) that we have a big bowl and everyone takes what he can. I am sure it never even occurred to him that anyone would be angered by such smug, detached—in fact sociopathic—words. Why would it occur to him? He lives, miraculously, in Noah’s Ark. What, has anyone here died? Is anyone here working to fill the bowl? Who performs the wondrous miracle of the bowl? Ah, that’s God, of course (thanks to the Rebbe of Gur, the head of his cult). None of this is related to him or to others who pay heavy prices for it. Everything is puppeteered from above. Behold sociopathic wickedness grounded in theology.
Leli Deri (a bereaved mother from the current war) wrote about this beautifully:
Who fills the bowl and what is it filled with? It is filled with the blood of my son and of hundreds who were killed, with the tears of my daughter-in-law and of so many widows and orphans, with the worries of parents who send one child, two, three—and you cannot just take. It’s not moral, it’s not Jewish, it’s not Torah-true.
It’s easy to miss the theological aspect. He truly doesn’t think there’s anyone here in this world who fills the bowl. To him it has simply been there since the six days of Creation. It’s here, and we’ll all take as much as we want and can, and of course we’ll thank God for His great goodness and for His daily miracles with us.
None of this, of course, stops him from carefully helping himself from the bowl. That part he doesn’t leave to God, nor to an angel or a seraph. God is responsible only for filling the bowl. Goldknopf is responsible for emptying it. He lives in his theological La-La-Land (what, there’s a housing crisis in Israel? As per Goldknopf’s famous bon mot upon being appointed Housing Minister, no less…), and this theology yields sociopathic and detached conduct. Haredi ideology sees the world as a kind of test for us, examining how much we manage to live detached from it and to think in a delusional and non-realistic manner even though it’s clearly nonsense. It’s all a test from God for the residents of the Haredi Noah’s Ark.
It’s important to understand that this theological thinking runs all the religious parties in Israel today—from their rabbis and “greats” to their politicians. Among the Haredi parties and rabbis it is entirely le-chatchila (by design), whereas in the Religious-Zionist parties, Ben-Gvir and Avi Maoz are ostensibly only assisting them (as the verse says: “and their helpers”). When it comes to shouldering the burden, they are not truly partners—only helping from the outside. But it is hard to break free from the theological link. After all, they share in the sociopathic theology that everything is in God’s hands and we are marionettes. Except that in their eccentric opinion, marionettes are required to be active (akin to the known Protestant paradox). This is an important point: sociopathically there seems to be a difference between Haredim and Hardalim (religious-nationalist Haredim), but when you look through theological lenses you discover a broader and more worrying picture. It isn’t just a political conjuncture. There is a theological root to the cooperation between these two groups.
A note on sociopathy and growing up
As is known, children don’t understand that resources are not unlimited, and that one must weigh costs and benefits at every step. The fact that tasks and goals must be allocated and that one thing comes at the expense of another is foreign to them. Children simply take what they can, and if they aren’t given, they get angry. After all, Mom and Dad can give them whatever they want, so if they don’t, they’re just mean and hate us. Children live in a sociopathic La-La-Land—but that is part of their necessary maturation process. The responsible adult’s role is to accompany them and ensure that this disappears with maturity. Among the Haredim this doesn’t happen. They got stuck in the sociopathy of childhood and never left it. Rabbi Tamir Granot, head of the Orot Shaul Hesder Yeshiva, a bereaved father and activist for drafting Haredim, said in a newspaper interview that he spoke with a very prominent Lithuanian-Haredi rabbi who told him that Haredi society are children in a kindergarten who conduct themselves childishly, and they need someone from the outside to save them from themselves (that rabbi, of course, will never dare say this out loud. And that’s part of the problem).
Note also that those among the Haredim who admit that the issues of conscription and sharing the burden are a problem—early and encouraging signs from a small Haredi minority—at the very same time expect the army to prepare itself and society to get properly ready for their coming, with God’s help, as heroes. They’re doing us a favor, and it’s conditional on our doing everything for them according to their demands, so that Heaven forbid they pay no price. It doesn’t matter that none of them shows the first signs of involvement or willingness to come beyond empty declarations. On the contrary, some of their leaders honestly proclaim that no Haredi will serve—even those who don’t study. In their view, even at the declarative level, the “adults” are the ones who must do everything so that the child will condescend to do something too. It never occurs to them that the task of preparing the army and the service frameworks for their arrival is first and foremost their task (especially since they are now in the government). The obligation to enlist is everyone’s; if they want special conditions, they should say thank you that people are willing to grant them—but at least let them take part in the matter. A child cannot understand such a thing. And a sociopathic adult can perhaps understand, but doesn’t really want to. Moreover, the army at present is not exactly eager for this, since everyone understands that even after all the preparations, very few, if any, will actually come to enlist, and even if they do, their contribution will be negligible (Haredi service today is mainly convenient vocational training for them, with a nice salary for the family). Who has the motivation to make such sweeping preparations that disrupt the entire military system, for a population for whom this is merely an excuse not to shoulder the burden, and that in all likelihood will not show up in the end.
Back to theology: is this only Deri’s theology?
Note that the writer of the passage above is Dov Halbertal and not Moshe (I saw someone attribute it to Moshe Halbertal). He is the Haredi “dos,” not his “Reform” brother. It seems he too understands there is no room for those hollow slogans about divine goodness and the miracles that happen to us day by day.
In my estimation there are many others who understand that you can’t say such nonsense out loud, but still in their hearts feel bound to these “principles of faith”: recognizing God’s goodness and His daily miracles for us. Many who see disasters (like the Holocaust?) as expressions of God’s goodness—since in their view everything is from above, but as is known no evil descends from above. Conclusion: there is no evil in the world at all. QED. Who can argue with such a syllogism?!
I don’t think Deri is truly exceptional in these deranged ideas. It cannot be denied that this is the prevailing mode of thought in religious circles of various hues. Which of us has not wondered why God took a relative in an accident, or thanked God for the “miracle” of recovery from an illness (but did not wonder about His role in the very creation of the illness), and the like. Except that unlike Deri, others whose heads are a little less full of what Deri’s head is full of—and who nonetheless understand there is also a surrounding society that bears the burden and suffers—have a bit more tact regarding what they say in public in such sensitive days (as a reminder, inside Noah’s Ark nothing at all is happening). But I think few dare to question this theological dogma itself (that everything is from God). Few are willing to admit that you cannot selectively assign events to Providence only when it suits you. If He does everything, then He also does the troubles and not just the salvations. Complaints should be directed to Him too, and not only thank-yous. If He is responsible for everything then truly nothing depends on us, and soldiers died because they had to die, and those who were saved were saved because they had to be saved. So who says the Nation-State Law was legislated against the Druze?! The dominant theology in Israel today is Druze fatalism. From Halbertal’s words it becomes clear that there are still “dosim” who—even if they’re somewhat eccentric—have not entirely lost the image of God that is logical and consistent thinking.
What about God’s goodness?
You’re surely wondering: fine, so what do you propose? After all, you too believe in God’s goodness (I’ve been asked about this more than once here on the site). How does that square with our present situation? I’ll briefly say a few things.
First, even if I believe something, I don’t tend to ignore facts that contradict it. Either I find a resolution, or I forgo the belief, or at least I leave it as a question. I certainly don’t present imaginary delusions as if they were facts, while ignoring many facts that contradict them, just to support that belief. I don’t refer to the Holocaust as a miracle and salvation from God, nor to the last year. I definitely try to let the facts get in my way from time to time.
Second, since I do indeed believe in God’s goodness, my conclusion is that He is apparently not involved in everything that happens here (at least in most cases—there is no ongoing involvement). I don’t attribute to Him either the good or the “more-good,” and I certainly don’t split hairs and make selective divisions of events—what is from Him and what is not. There are philosophical and logical reasons for this (because there cannot be divine involvement within the framework of nature, and we are all familiar with the ongoing operation of nature—we know there are laws of nature. See, for example, Column 214, 547, and the references there). Because of the clearly sociopathic results, it is indeed important to revisit and examine their theological roots and to consider adopting a different stance.
All this does raise hard questions, since a lack of divine involvement still needs to be reconciled with the assumption of His goodness. If He sees people suffering, why does He not intervene? I offered a possible, even if imperfect, answer to these questions elsewhere, and I won’t go back over it all here. I also explained there that despite everything said here, troubles and salvations can serve as triggers for self-examination and for thanksgiving to God. Self-examination—because human nature is such that when troubles befall a person, he is more willing to examine his ways. It is indeed an opportunity for self-examination, but only on the psychological plane. It is unlikely that such self-examination will save us from anything. And the thanksgiving to God is not for concrete divine involvement that produced the events in question, since most likely there was no such involvement. The thanksgiving is because such events give us an opportunity to give thanks for the creation of the world and its laws, which enable us to function within it in a reasonable way.
Be that as it may, one can think of different answers and different interpretations of the principles of faith we’ve grown used to, and one can also re-examine them. But ignoring facts and painting them pink just so they fit our detached assumptions is not a proper path. It is Orwellian brainwashing: if you repeat a mantra often enough, no matter how delusional, it eventually sinks in (“Ignorance is strength, slavery is freedom…”). Nor does it express fear of Heaven and faith, but rather detachment and an unwillingness to think. Such fear of Heaven—commandments performed by rote—is worthless. Just as the Torah study of a society that conducts itself so sociopathically is worthless. A lack of gratitude to those who do the good deed is nothing but sociopathic conduct that cynically, smugly, and wickedly ignores the surrounding society. That is not an expression of serving God and recognizing His goodness, but of living a detached and immoral lie. Of this the prophet says: “Why do I need the multitude of your sacrifices?!”
You are like the tiger and the lion that preyed on the poor lamb. These Jews you quoted here present the ancient and traditional faith expressed in the Torah, the prophets, the scriptures, and the sages. If you consider this to be sociopathy or any other foreign word, speak directly about the one who sent them down this path, and not about some MK or community center director in the north.
Every word is a rock. I was just wondering and I'm interested in what the rabbi thinks, maybe the strategy of the secularists (or the opposition camp) in Israel should shift to the position of a persecuted minority and behave accordingly. Instead of developing expectations of a return to power, demand autonomy with a liberal space, exemption from military service for women and men (if the haredim can accept it, then even those who hold the state's money and finance everyone here can demand this as a minority), register startups abroad, etc., etc. What do you think? Maybe there is no choice.. that the corrupt continue to rule but that they pay a price
This is exactly what the Kaplan protest tried to do
Only that, as is the custom of revolutions that fall in love with themselves and radicalize without stopping, they shot themselves in the head
It's nice that you're throwing up Rabbi Michael's clichés. There was nothing extreme in the protest against the current government. No police officers were injured, there was no violence against Neanderthals, there was no incitement to violence against politicians - nothing. The only ones who shot themselves in the head in protest are people like you and Rabbi Michael who decided that they didn't feel good enough in the back to join the protest.
People who were not breathing on their own, connected to an oxygen bottle, got stuck at roadblocks – not completely extreme because it happened to me – and not to him. He, as you know, belongs to ”other people” . There was also violence against people who got into roadblocks –
and there was clear incitement against Haredim and against “Kehlet” . There is a call by former head of military intelligence Malka to make the lives of Likud Knesset members miserable and there is more .
But Atzmoni only sees himself.
Apart from the fact that they sent two flash bombs to the Prime Minister's house and called for civil disobedience and refusal, it was fine.
You may have forgotten that the Haredim are successful in this because they are the tip of the scales.
And if the opposition were interested in bringing about the recruitment of the Haredim, they could build an agreement with the coalition that on the questions of recruitment and budgets would forever constitute a counterweight to the Haredim's demands and thus take the sting out of them.
But the opposition does not have a single milligram of concern for the audience and the cashews, and everything they do stems from hatred of the opposing side.
And it is true that when it comes to the Haredim's behavior, they are completely right.
In my opinion, in the current situation there is definitely justification for refusal, and certainly for smuggling money abroad. What is happening now is a cynical robbery of all of us. This has nothing to do with the question of the motives of Kaplan's people, which in my opinion is presented in a distorted way. It is clear that they want to overthrow Bibi, but equality is also really important to them. Among other things, overthrowing Bibi is intended to achieve this. Therefore, this propaganda as if they are not interested in anything except overthrowing Bibi is demagogic nonsense. It is true that the desire to overthrow him causes them to do a lot of nonsense, as I have written here more than once.
I think you're wrong.
And again, the standard protest must be separated from the initiators of this protest.
At least until October 7th, if the Haredim were to break up the right-wing bloc, they would accept some kind of false conscription law with the conscription of iron boys and scoundrels, and the entire media would go out of their way to praise the new conscription model with the best propaganda means. After October 7th, it will definitely become more difficult, although I wouldn't be surprised if the Haredim decide they're fed up and cut to the other bloc, and you'll see a campaign here designed to whitewash it with some kind of false conscription model.
The left is so greedy for power that it will give them what they want and use any means to whitewash it.
You yourself write that it is relevant before October 7. We are after, if you haven't noticed. The conscription law itself was Benny Gantz's, who now opposes it. But those who want to slander the left (like the right) will always find a reason.
But as mentioned, there is no indication that the left has stopped its immense hatred of the right (the hatred for Bibi is just a cover for it) and I am 100 percent sure that if we give in to this campaign, the government will fall and a leftist, ultra-Orthodox government will be established in which not a single ultra-Orthodox will be recruited and not a single shekel will be deducted from their budgets and rights. And I believe with all my heart that you too will fill your mouth with water then.
And look at what Nadav Shnarb wrote just this week about this:
“Last week I saw several posts on a topic that could be called the “Covenant of the Servants”. The owners of the idea, if I understand them correctly, feel that the events of the October Shiva and the ongoing war are supposed to create a new political situation. This argument is built, it seems to me, on two legs:
A. The old disputes that tore the public in Israel have become less relevant. In particular, the willingness to hand over territories to the Arabs has decreased, in their opinion, which neutralizes the main issue we have been arguing about for 50 years and more.
B. On the other hand, the war and the terrible burden it places on the servants, their families and the public in general, has raised awareness that there are groups (he says, the Haredim) who do not bear the burden at all.
The conclusion that emerges from these two points is the need to rob systems, and to move to politics whose main concern is equality of burden, or in simple words, recruiting Haredim. Hence slogans such as “I am in the company - I am in the party” and so on.
I believe that:
1. The proponents of the idea, or at least some of them, are valuable and important Jews with worthy intentions.
2. I hope they succeed in realizing their plans, may God be with them.
3. There is no chance for these ideas, and under the current circumstances it would be a big mistake to abandon the bird in the hand (a right-wing government with all its major shortcomings) in favor of national reconciliation on the tree, which I am sure will blossom from the tree the moment they approach it.
It is difficult for me to write these things. I have been a long-time opponent, for decades, of the politics of the Haredi public, with the issue of serving in the army being a major concern. I have expressed, written and published these opinions many times, and have been involved in quite a few bitter arguments for them. I have always argued (I will include in the comments some references to the posts), in general, that all Haredim are Satmar and the differences between them are only in their willingness to change for the sake of decency or money, that there is no chance that they will voluntarily take any step towards a fair sharing of the burden of citizenship, and that all reports about various aspects of Haredim integration into society are presumed to be fraudulent until proven otherwise. In an alternative world, I would pat myself on the back, proud that so many people have reached the same conclusions, and loudly join the campaign for equality in the new burden. Unfortunately, the last two years have greatly changed my assessment of reality, and accordingly, my perceptions of possible political alternatives.
Using the Haredi problem as a scarecrow, as a vote-pumping tool that does not require anything, has been the most trite political exercise in the country for decades, a horse ridden by Rapol (‘Your ballot is their conscription order’), Ehud Barak (‘Conscription for their own good’), and of course Tommy and Yair Lapid. Each in turn milked the ’a few more mandates’ from the irritated public, each in turn blurred, muddied or ignored the problem after being elected and channeled political power into areas that are truly close to their hearts.
The members of the “Alliance of Servants” believe that this time the situation is different, that this time there is real change, real anger, real unity of opinion, which will lead to real results. I disagree with them. In my opinion, this is another exercise, an attempt by Kaplan’s protest foxes to lure the enthusiastic religious-national crow to open its beak in order to crack songs of Israeli unity and drop the cheese of power at their feet. The day they get what they want, the power, which is the sole purpose of the exercise, they will return with full vigor to engage in issues that really interest them (primarily – distributing dumplings of various kinds to Sinwar’s freedom fighters) and I have no doubt that they will not lift a finger to recruit even a single Haredi.
As in certain parts of the Kidnappers campaign, here too there is an attempt to lure Bambi's mother into a trap by making her son's crying voice heard: trying to mobilize the deepest, most sincere, most correct emotions, in order to make a gullible public voluntarily put its neck in the noose. It is forbidden to succumb to these manipulations.
The left in Israel, like any public of people, is not made of one skin. And yet, we have seen that what can be called the “combination of elites” – academics, doctors, senior military officers, media stars, the rich – has a lot of power. In the last two years, they have succeeded in making a mockery of the elected government and making a circus of the government, and it can be said that the voters of Gantz, Lapid and their ilk are quite fond of them.
Within the elite groups we have described, there is a decisive weight of post-Jewish and post-Zionist people. I personally believe that most of them are incapable of defending the idea of a Jewish state in the Land of Israel with any borders, but even if I am wrong, there is no doubt that in their eyes the Arabs are completely morally right, at least with regard to the “territories” in Judea, Samaria and Gaza. The words that slip so easily down their throats: occupation, apartheid, war crimes and the like, leave no room for doubt.
There is no reason to believe that they will not support leaving the territories of Israel as soon as their memory allows it. After all, it is inconceivable that they would voluntarily continue what they themselves see as a regime of oppression, occupation and apartheid. True, there is a security risk that they also recognize. True, some of their representatives joined the Knesset’s declaratory resolution against a Palestinian state. Still, a fool is anyone who trusts in that. It is clear to any sensible person that the day the question is really on the agenda they will make some excuse about the changed situation and international pressure, or turn the Palestinian state into a demilitarized zone under the auspices of UN troops from Ghana and the like. See their expression of support for Israel in the Trump administration, see their hysteria and shock at the idea of renewing the Jewish settlement in the Gaza Strip, see their enthusiasm for releasing murderers of Jews (sorry, freedom fighters) from prison, the incredible campaigns they are raising on the subject, and you will understand everything.
The same applies to the recruitment of haredim. I am not at all sure that the issue interests them beyond the potential it has for (justified!) bashing the right-wing government. After all, if you think about it, recruiting haredim will bring the country a lot of soldiers, a lot of power, a lot more social cohesion. The Arab parties always vote against the recruitment of Haredim for precisely this reason, because they oppose these goals. And Shokan? And the leaders of the protest? Do you think they think differently? These people who sign calls to stop the war, petitions to foreign countries to impose an arms embargo on Israel, elites, Israel Prize laureates, former legal advisors, professors – do you really believe that it is important to them that there be more soldiers in the Golani? That there be another maneuvering division?
There are still Zionist leftists, among them those who are fighting and risking their lives right now, and I certainly understand the hearts of those who feel the brotherhood of fighters and the comradeship of volunteers, but it is very difficult to imagine these people going out, in a year or two, against the wind blowing from the ivory towers of academia and the fortresses of the legal system. We have not seen any significant reservations of this kind in the last two years, and whoever went through fire and water after people who talk about an 'unconstitutional constitutional amendment' is a person who cannot be trusted with anything. In order to conceive of an alliance between us and them, an alliance for which we may pay a heavy price, these friends must, first of all, separate themselves from the tents of the wicked in the same way that their masters in the previous generation kicked out the P.K.P. and M.K.I. people. The ball is in their court, and we are not the ones who will make the decision for them.
These senseless hateful trolls are not worth addressing.
I have been reading newspapers (online) for at least an hour a day for 15 years now (through my own fault) and these are the conclusions I have reached independently. There are many others like me who see reality this way, and it is almost certain that the right-wing MKs also see it this way. And this is probably also the main reason why the Haredim do not enlist in the IDF. This is not sociopathy. This is probably the understanding of what is really going on beneath the surface. Without hatred. An understanding that the leaders of the army cannot be trusted, apparently. After all, in the early days of the state, a significant percentage of Haredim enlisted. And their worldview was no different then, and the Jewish community was also very opposed to the state. Even then, they saw yeshivas as arks of peace. However, because of the memory of the Holocaust and its impact on the Haredi public, so that there was no one who did not have relatives killed in the Holocaust, the public leaders did not prohibit enlistment (although they did not encourage it either). But after all the wars against religion in the army, the leaders of this public apparently saw what I have only seen in the last four years. Apparently, even then they understood (in their opinion) that this was probably not really the Jewish state.
I didn't understand – The man is quoting Nadav Shnerb.
“Not worth mentioning ” ?
Just to correct Nadav Shnerb
The Haredim are not Satmar
Satmar has an ideology. They do not want any connection with the State of Israel in any aspect, neither in a straightforward nor in a harsh manner, that is their right. The proposed Lithuanian Haredi can quote you with the pathos of a Christian preacher from the Midwest a selection of anti-Zionist slogans while he sits happily working in some government office.
I didn't understand what the problem was with the statement about the heritage.
Hezbollah terrorists, of their own free will, decided to fire advanced missiles at the heritage and the missiles did hit and explode.
While statistically such a missile strike leads to a mass casualty rate of 99% (say), in the heritage no one was scratched and this is a statistical miracle.
Why did the ’ intervene in the damage to the heritage and not in the launch – True, this is a question that needs to be considered.
So give it some thought and get back to me with an answer.
In the name of Omro:
“Troubles and salvations can be a trigger for self-examination and confession to God”
But what do you think about the principled claim – If statistical miracles have factually happened that helped us, is it not logical to claim that they are from God’ even if there is no prophet who testifies to them?
If miracles did indeed happen, it makes sense to attribute them to God. But these statistical miracles are not miracles. This has already been discussed here to the point of exhaustion.
Now it's my turn to apologize for returning to the subject of miracles - how is it that in order to prove that a miracle occurred, one needs the confirmation of a prophet, if in order to prove that a person is a prophet, one needs a miracle?
An obvious miracle that is against the laws of nature or a miracle that was predicted in advance is a miracle even without the testimony of a prophet. A “statistical miracle” can also be a coincidence. Therefore, a prophet is needed to say that it is the work of God.
And even if you were right, there is no contradiction here. A proven prophet can testify to the miracles of a new prophet. The chain begins with Moses or with God.
If the matter is predicted in advance then this proves it. If someone predicts exactly the state of the stock market every day in the coming month (without any more wrong prophecies) then he is a prophet's bomb
Stock market predictions are statistical, not an event that goes against the laws of nature.
And the truth is that according to quantum mechanics, every event in nature has some probability in the wave function, it's just statistics.
Knowing many statistical events in advance is a miracle beyond the laws of nature.
How can you tell what is a miracle and what is a coincidence (or a ‘miracle in nature’)? Stalin murdered millions, including Jews, and died after staging the Doctors' Trial, which was the opening act for the pogroms and deportation of Jews. Is it a miracle or a coincidence?
So why are Kaplan and his men fighting the establishment of an ultra-Orthodox brigade? Why don't the privileges of the Arab public (national insurance, equalization grants, "corrective" preference, and more) bother them? Why aren't they even talking about the Arab public? After all, they were supposed to be the first priority even before the ultra-Orthodox. If they're afraid of a fifth corps, and rightly so, then they won't take taxes from them and won't provide services. How do the ultra-Orthodox get all the attention? Why doesn't that bother you? It doesn't make sense at all.
From the looks of it, Kaplan's people want absolute rule and no equality. You only have to look into their fiery eyes and the madness in their eyes to see it. Halutz, Ya'alon, Barak, etc. Really good people.
Is equality important to them?
A former chief education officer in the IDF called for “to throw “Kehlet”” out of here.
In the name of what equality is he talking about?
And if “brothers to kiss” – why didn't they protest against the disruptions to prayer in Tel Aviv on Yom Kippur?
That's what you expect from your brothers.
Our Rabbi Michael will probably claim that the Kaplan saints also have “weeds” –
But we didn't hear the protest of the righteous among them.
If equality was important to them, they would hold demonstrations for conscription into the IDF not only in Mea Shearim, but in Umm al-Fahm. Because what do you care, we are all Israelis, we all have to bear the burden, so what if Ahmed doesn't share the values of Zionism - we will re-educate him!
If that's how you think about Kaplan's people, then how do you explain, for example, that at the beginning of the war, when the opposition was called to join a unity government, no party initially agreed to join if Ben Gvir was in that government. Only Gantz finally joined, and even then with an ultimatum that Ben Gvir and Smotrich would not sit in the war cabinet. With Deri, he had no problem with him sitting in this cabinet, and this is despite the fact that Ben Gvir and Smotrich's voters constitute the spearhead of the ground fighters who risk their lives the most and have the greatest motivation among the ground fighters in general. And in general, the percentage of combatants and reservists who are among their voters is the largest in Israeli society. And all this according to his (and the other opposition parties') worn-out claim that they are "messianic and extremist" (And regardless of the fact that they are the only ones who were right in their predictions throughout the years and the only ones who didn't fall for the concept…). With the Haredim, he had no problem joining and even sitting with them in the cabinet. And that's another Gantz. Not to mention the other opposition parties. Even Yair Golan said, about a month ago, that he had no problem sitting with the Haredim and that he is the father of the Kaplanists. And I don't think he would be willing to sit with Ben Gvir with his hatred of him….
And there are other examples similar to this
So how do you explain this?
So it seems to me that recruiting Haredim doesn't really interest them. Only the government
M.S.L
It's insulting to me to answer this bizarre question. A collection of words that fails to even formulate an argument with premises that are related to the conclusion. So I suggest you go back and formulate an argument that has clear premises and a conclusion, preferably without propaganda. If I can discern any connection between the premises and the conclusion, I'll try to address it.
Gantz is not interested in the voters of Smotrich and Ben Gvir, and he does not respect them even though they are fighters on the battlefield (in that he does not think that their representatives deserve to be among the decision-makers regarding the war) because of their "messianism and extremism", while he does not mind that representatives of the public who do not enlist will sit at the center of decision-making regarding the war (Deri was in the cabinet). How can this be? Because what is really important to him is not equality among all servants, but the dominance of his (defeatist) policy. The haredim do not interfere with this. And Smotrich and Ben Gvir do interfere. This is an example of why someone who is still considered moderate in relation to Kaplan really cares (as mentioned, Yair Golan believes the same thing as him). A Palestinian state in Gaza the next day (or kidnappings, or surrender to US dictates, etc.) is more important than equality in recruitment.
Nice. Now here are two logical flaws in your argument.
It is possible that equality of burden is very, very important to him (especially after October 7, and here is another flaw of yours, that you compare cases before and after), but there are other things that are important to him, for example that there should be no messianism. You may not like his attitude towards messianism, but your inference regarding his attitude towards equality of burden is flawed.
What intellectual dishonesty……First of all, this event was after 7.10, to remind you.
Secondly, this is exactly the disrespect I'm talking about. Smotrich's voters. They are good for fighting and dying, but because they are Messianic, they have no place at the decision-making table. Equality means equality in everything, not just in conscription. Otherwise, it's not equality, it's slavery. On the other hand, the Haredim don't conscript at all, but they can be given a seat at the table. Conclusion: If the left has the opportunity to form a government, it will again sit with the Haredim and not conscript anyone so that there will be no Messianic people in power.
So we Messianics are also allowed to sit with the Haredim and not conscript anyone. Therefore, all of Kaplan's cries that equality in conscription is important to them are a bluff. Because Annette's "Messianism" is much more important to them. After all, they are mainly shouting about the Likud and Smotrich. And not about the Haredim.
Well, I gave up.
And for the sake of logic: All that emerges from Kaplan's cries is not that equality is important to them, but that it is the most important to them.
And here Gantz – when it comes to a unity government and not just any government – boycotts from the cabinet the representatives of the public who are most mobilized. So apparently equality is not more important to him than power or dictating his policy…. And Kaplan's people are even more similar to Yair Golan than to Gantz.
Deri also represents quite a few enlisted men. Shas traditionally enjoys considerable support among the soldiers.
Maybe he represents, but not in his best interests... and not because of this, Gantz is willing to let him sit in the cabinet...
Except that I wouldn't say the things about the equipment, everything is true and accurate.
It's not clear why they blame all the troubles on the one sitting on high.
As if it wasn't made clear to us what would happen if we acted this way and what if we acted differently.
And then it was also illustrated to us throughout history.
And it was illustrated more than three or four times.
Also in the Bible and no less, in recorded history.
Not understood. Even in biblical times when (hopefully?) you acknowledge His full involvement, there were still (sometimes) the ways of the wicked prospered and there were diseases, and they thanked Him for the medicine, etc. The cosmetic solution of "Today He does not provide" does not solve any problem, it only distances the need to deal with it and makes the question historical. Your questions are also true for a time when, according to you, there was also providence.
I have explained this many times. See columns about divine involvement in the world. When there is a prophecy and someone can tell me what comes from God and what does not, I will be willing to accept distinctions between event A and event B. Of course, there too I could have been critical of people's attitude. But not of prophets because they know.
You didn't write what you disagree with in Rogel Alper's conclusion.
Regarding the Religious Zionist Party, I identify with your theological criticism, but in practical matters, I think there is something to be learned from them. Since in their opinion, and in the opinion of wise and good people, the alternative to the current government is the disastrous leftist defeatism, at this stage we need to hold this government by the teeth despite the sorrow and pain over the haredi arrogance. Smotrich’ explains this well in an interview with Makor Rishon:
https://www.makorrishon.co.il/news/793705/
Personally, I will add that I believe that men should also be given the option of being exempted from conscription on the grounds of religion. If someone thinks that the army is something I have no interest in in the army. From a military perspective, he will be of no use to me, let him go to hell on his own. It is better for him to be released and instead of playing around with the whole yeshiva study thing, let him go to work. Deferring service for yeshiva students should have nothing to do with these people. I have no interest in being here. Repressive Russia, and in fact, forced conscription into the army has only harmed Russia.
In my opinion, that's not the only thing that motivates them. There is a feeling of inferiority towards the Haredim and they don't really dare to speak out against them. The feeling of inferiority is justified, since they share their theology, and the Haredim are better than them in almost every parameter according to their own definition.
And the disagreement with Rogel Alper's conclusion?
Don't eat shrimp. The argument doesn't say that there is no God and there is no point in worshipping him, but that the events here should not be attributed to him.
And that doesn't prevent them from interfering in every area, from choosing a chief rabbi, choosing a Bible teacher, and who will live where.
It seems to me that this time you made life easy for yourself (and forgive the use of this idiom, in these troubling times). You chose as a convenient springboard the words of someone who, in my opinion, is the most evil and cynical politician of the six days of Genesis, Aryeh Deri, to present us with a theology centered on the question, if we thank God for a miracle, why are we not outraged by the disaster He brought upon us on that occasion. To me, this question is deeper only than the childish question, "Can God create a stone that he cannot lift?" I am not trying to contradict the rest of your words and conclusions regarding the Haredi public, because fairness requires me to admit that I have no good reasons for this.
It seems to me that you made life too easy for yourself. Deri here spoke to his audience and presented a widespread attitude there. The fact that he is cynical and corrupt has nothing to do with our discussion. The fact that his audience buys into it means that this is a theology that is widespread there, even among innocent and honest people.
A. I didn't understand why the question about suffering proves that God does not intervene in what is happening. To the extent that divine logic is beyond our understanding, there must be a good purpose for causing (or not preventing) suffering. When a person is faced with a hardship, he is supposed to understand that the purpose of the hardship is for good, even if he doesn't understand how, and when he is saved from it, he is thankful that good is also pleasant. This is the perception expressed in the blessings of the judge of truth and the good and the benefactor. This is a logical and consistent perception, and I don't understand why you reject it.
B. The statement that the hardship was small relative to what was supposed to happen has nothing to do with faith at all, even if it is expressed in a faith-based manner. This is a form of optimistic attitude toward suffering, what is called looking at the glass half full. You are upset by the fact that the person who expressed it does not bear the burden of suffering, but the optimistic outlook itself is good and useful, and is also expressed by people who have gone through suffering themselves (for example: My grandfather always looked at the good in that he managed to survive the Holocaust with some of his family members and was not left alone. This did not negate the pain of the loss of everyone else).
A. So why aren't they thanking him for the October massacre as well, but only for the "miracles"? Alternatively, what special miracles were there this year that don't happen every moment? Who said that the purpose of the tribulation is for good? You assume that he is the one who caused it, an assumption that is baseless and baseless.
B. This optimistic view is stupid even if it comes from someone who is actually carrying a burden. You can be optimistic, and that's fine. But don't hang it on baseless fabrications about divine intervention.
A. For the slaughterer, one must truly justify the judgment and bless the true judge, which means understanding that this trouble in the law has come, even though we do not know why.
Who said that the purpose of trouble is for good? Ibait Ima Sabra, and Aba'a read. Aba'a Sabra – If God is the perfect good, then necessarily what happens (by Him, or with His permission) is also part of this good; and Aba'a read – “The creature is perfect in his work, for all his ways are judgment, a God of faith and without injustice, righteous and upright is he.
B. Why is an optimistic view stupid?
It really has nothing to do with divine intervention. The dependence on intervention is nothing more than a different formulation of the same idea – Focusing on the parts that seem positive to us. (Refer to Rabbi Menoah in chapter 10 of the Law of Blessings, Halacha 9, which states that when a miracle happens to a person, it may be an accident or it may be providence, and the acknowledgement to God is on the side of doubt.)
The broken clock Dov Halbertal showed the correct time.
And as for Rogel Alper – I read on Wikipedia that he was involved in a project called “”Young Psychopath”,
Well, today he is less young but not a miracle.
Oh my.
Especially when it comes from someone who once praised Asperger's. Apparently they really went overboard.
Just a clarification. I still praise Asperger's. But here we are talking about moral Asperger's and not Asperger's of people's feelings and fixations. There is a difference between saying that it is wrong to act according to emotion and saying that it is wrong to act according to morality.
If the greats fell in flames, what would the general public say?
And forgive me for being emotional, I think we're both angry.
Really infuriating
Only the rabbi did them a favor out of place – diagnosed them with an illness – as if it was beyond their choice
That's the problem – that the Haredim are human garbage that they choose their actions with a clear mind!
Drifting. I emphasized that in my opinion this is a diagnosis of the Haredi collective, and perhaps also of some of the individuals. Such a blanket accusation is really inaccurate. There are quite a few good people there, but they are babies who have been captured by a delusional and sick ideology. Unfortunately, most of them do not show independent thinking and basic autonomy, but the circumstances (captivity) contribute to this, and therefore it is not right to treat everyone in this way in a blanket manner.
If until now I thought otherwise, now in the story of the dormitories and Minister Ben Tzur it became clear that the Haredim are also willing to fight directly against the interests of other citizens in the country. Until now I thought that the Haredim see me (a religious milominic and former Haredi) as another person living alongside them and that there is some kind of appreciation between me and them, now I understand that as far as they are concerned I am dust. They have no problem taking my dormitory money, even if it is for political pressure. Simply taking my money as a hostage.
The things the rabbi wrote are instructive, but I completely disagree with the distinction between individuals and the public, as time goes by and the support their leaders receive, it becomes clear that a significant part of this public is evil who does not see the rest of the citizens.
Of course, while taking our money, they also despise us and these things are known to those who were there.
All countries do this - they prevent budget transfers in order to achieve a budget or other political goal. This is not unique to the Haredim. This is how the political system works.
The Haredim only see other citizens after they see themselves, just like any other population. They also don't think they are taking your money but getting their money back (only technically this is not true).
Nonsense. Give an example of preventing a budget transfer to achieve a goal and then we'll examine whether it's similar, and what the relationship should be.
In 2019, Democrats in the US blocked the passage of the budget because of their opposition to funding the construction of the wall on the Mexican border. This shut down government agencies for five weeks and caused widespread disruptions to the economy. The same thing happened in 2013 when Republicans opposed the passage of Obamacare.
As I thought, comparisons are pointless.
I can't believe I even need to explain to you the difference between opposing the budget transfer due to disagreements and being condemned.
And that's regardless of the background of this delusional story here, which is intended to help evaders
Well, since I am not as wise as you, I will ask you to explain to me what the difference is, without involving personal opinions on the specific issue of recruiting Haredim.
Where is the problem with the claim that sometimes God wants to arouse us to prayer and mercy but does so through a miracle by causing a blow that was supposedly supposed to or could kill, to ultimately not kill?
No problem. Except that this delusional thesis has nothing to do with the discussion. Even if it is true, he should be blamed for the trouble if he is thanked for the rescue, or vice versa.
The levels of delusion that people reach to defend a false “thought” system have been well demonstrated in communist writings. There is nothing really new here.
The light (everything started from a single point of light) which is the Creator of the world and there is the light, which is the way in which the Creator created His world (who bestowed light upon His world), meaning that what happens to man is not the Creator who decides at the moment, but the way in which He created all the worlds.
On Earth, the Creator established a system of laws for nature and a system of laws for man, which is the Torah, because the Creator gave us the ability to learn and a system of laws. So, pretty much everything that is written in the Torah is things that must exist. So if He created us and gave us the Torah, then it necessarily follows that there is no reality that the words of His Torah did not exist. For example, if a person prays to his God, then the laws that He bestowed upon us in His world, according to the Torah, which His Torah is heard, are truly heard and work according to the laws He demanded. So it follows that when you turn to the Creator in prayer, you are not turning directly to the Creator, but to the part He bestowed upon the world that He is a part of.
Did you forward the article to the reader Rabbi Moshe Hillel Hirsch?
There are no gaps in nature, but there are gaps in human will. Evil people chose (crazy, at a certain point they ran out of choices like addicts) to murder, burn, rape. And God did not prevent them from doing so. There is definitely evil coming down from above. At the same time, tens of thousands of terrorists in Lebanon were waiting for the order to attack Israel, *every* top military official claims that at least part of it would have been realized if they had only joined in, and the massacre in the encirclement would have paled in comparison. There is definitely a possibility that God played with their minds and did not allow them to act. By God. Why? I don't know. I am not him. I only know that I was born at a point in history and when he will leave. In this time frame, I hope to succeed in the mission of "do what is right and good" and "be holy." It is quite challenging. Both.
Just to note that I don't necessarily think so, but I'm definitely willing to accept the opinion that assuming that God is good, especially towards the chosen people, then we separate - the trouble is to awaken us and the salvation - out of mercy and love towards us. Where is the illusion here?? For the sake of God's goodness.
“The wickedness of man will lead astray – and on the ’ his heart will be grieved”.
Three wise men sat, saw all the signs of impending disaster – and did nothing!
They did not even declare the few forces on the ground on alert!
But the three are ours, of Kaplan's force – Therefore, the discussion must be diverted from those directly responsible
to those truly responsible – the Haredim.
And all the rest is a joke.
To examine whether God was involved for our benefit in the events of October 7, I suppose that at least one way is to examine all the possibilities in which the situation could have developed, and to see whether the possibility that actually happened is reasonable, and whether it is in our favor relative to the other possibilities. In the Holocaust, it was clearly a negative thing and not a miracle, since the other logical possibilities to which the situation in those years could have developed are clearly mostly more positive.
I don't really know what happened on October 7 among our enemies, but I have heard claims that the situation could have been much worse, for example if Hezbollah had decided to intervene, or if the attack had been carried out with fuller cooperation from Iran. Even if we had prevented this specific attack, the situation could have been worse, because it would not have exposed Hamas' crazy plans that the IDF did not know about, and we could have received a much bigger bomb later on.
I don't know if this analysis is correct, but in principle if it is correct and given that in everything that depends on our free choice (for example, the conduct of the IDF) there have been many failures, isn't this result preferable to most of the other alternatives, and therefore can we perhaps say that there was a certain involvement of God in choosing the least bad option given the situation?
A crooked criterion. It could have been more Taub and also worse. What does this mean? Why does it show divine involvement? Everything that happens is always at a certain level of evil, above and below it.
We measure the range of plausible possibilities given what could have happened, and we check whether what happened is good in relation to the other possibilities (which it would have been logical for them to have happened). If we roll a die 10 times, a million things could have happened, but if 10 times we get a 6, we suspect that there is something beyond luck. According to the reality assessments of all sorts of people (I don't know if they are right), among the plausible scenarios given the parameters that do not depend on the IDF (the behavior of the IDF and the behavior of the enemies), the specific scenario that happened was one of the best possible.
Let's put aside for a moment the Hasidic-Kabbalist-Midrash theology, according to which evil does not descend, curses are sublime blessings in disguise, etc.
Pharaoh cuts off the kidneys of the males, Yocheved puts the baby Moses into an ark, the ark not only does not tip over, but ends up directly in the hands of Pharaoh's daughter, who adopts the child. In this case, can it be said that God, the Almighty, simultaneously wanted to punish the people of Israel as a whole for some reason, but in the process chose to save Moses (because his family was actually in order and that God had designated him as a redeemer)? Were Moses' parents permitted to offer a prayer of thanksgiving?
I didn't understand the question. Everyone is allowed to offer a prayer of thanksgiving.
In the Torah, we find that we thank God for taking us out of Egypt, even though He is the one who brought us there.
In short, "You are the one who made me."
And this is for you, because you are the one who is dependent on the simple Jew.
Go to Uman, there you will have no questions…
How can one not see the private surveillance with a real sense!
Shabbat Protects the City | Everything was shattered to pieces – What remained intact?
The supervisor of the Iruv on behalf of the rabbis of the city of Bnei Brak went out this morning to the scene of the attack on the border of R”G B”B, on Ben Gurion Street. The supervisor arrived equipped with the relevant tools, because he clearly knew that the Iruv thread was apparently invalidated by the force of the impact, but what he discovered surprised him, and will surprise you too – the Iruv remained intact in all its glory | All the details and documentation from the scene (Haredim)
| 11 | Kikar Hashabbat | 18th of Cheshvan | 19.11.24
Shock waves are not harmful to thin, flexible objects like wire.
I really didn't understand, all the holidays are like that. This is Jewish theology.
Celebrating that we left Egypt even though God put us there, the same goes for Purim, for Hanukkah, and so on and so forth.
When there are prophets who tell us what comes from Him and what does not, we can make distinctions.
The holidays, as well as the prayers, do not necessarily constitute thanksgiving to God for specific involvement, as I have explained more than once.
And above all, even if the holidays were like that, the fact that there is something puzzling in our tradition does not mean that we can continue to talk nonsense about every event that happens to us. It is better to stay in the truth. Abraham also sacrificed his son. Pinchas stabbed Zimri. A red heifer defiles the pure and purifies the impure. Do you think that from now on I should sacrifice my children? Alternatively, praise those who do so? Am I supposed to speak contradictory things from now on?
But Maimonides, in his book Taaniot, writes that in times of trouble one should cry out and cheer and examine one's actions, and likewise (in his book of blessings) those who have escaped danger bless "He who repays those who owe favors, who has repaid me all good."
I don't like your criticism of the people of heritage, nor that of that wild fool from the ”country”. You are simply trying to forcefully sell your theology (like an enthusiastic child who thinks he has discovered some patent and rushes to sell it to everyone and then gets angry that there are no buyers among the audience he is trying to sell to).
They also explicitly said that the bad things that happened to them were also from God. They just simply understood that the good reality in which they lived until then, and the fact that they are alive and breathing, is not self-evident (and is not as stable as a rock). Including the very existence of the property in their hands. Therefore, they confessed their sin (or that they sinned in something), so they were not worthy of God's protection of their property from Nasrallah (who is indeed not an enemy of Israel exactly, but simply a harmful animal that detected a weakness in a person who entered his field of vision) and also thanked him for protecting their lives. You can say that there is nothing to be thankful for because that is the justice they deserve, but we are also supposed to be thankful for what we have because that is not self-evident either, because God is not obligated to give that either. I will understand someone who would be angry with God for someone who he believes treated him unjustly, like Job or any other Holocaust survivor, but it is not unreasonable for someone who was saved to be thankful for his personal salvation if he believes he did not deserve it. There are things in the world that I have risked with the fact that they can be taken from me, even though I do not think I deserve it according to the law based on my actions, and I can curse God or come to Him with claims (as Job did, and from His perspective, rightly so), but it simply does not work and is not effective in fighting God for it, but rather to be thankful for what I have and try to draw conclusions about what I am supposed to do with their loss. Not for all the things I have, I risked the same amount of having them taken away. There are certainly things that if they were taken from me, I would probably curse God for it, if not for God himself helping me not to curse Him for it. Incidentally, this is a kind of summary of the Book of Job in a certain sense (in my brief opinion). You can say that it is better to ignore His existence or expect His help, but those who feel that God has helped them in the past and their success was not accidental will of course not be convinced, and rightly so.
Besides, it is very possible that the people of the heritage felt that the likelihood (and probability?) that they would be harmed by the missiles that fell on them was higher than we think (maybe even very high – much higher than the likelihood that no soul would be harmed), but by a special providence (miracle) they were only harmed in property and not in life. So they give thanks for the good and bless the bad (=justify God and fumble with their actions). This can be seen as an acknowledgement of God’ Who warned them in advance about a disease they had before it caused them irreversible damage, like a dentist who warns about a certain damage to their teeth – irreversible damage – that occurred due to neglect, and this is even before much more serious damage (which may be irreversible) occurred. Here too, the cause of the damage is the bacteria that God created, which in our case is Nasrallah.
With regard to the Holocaust, we have a different feeling than the feeling of heritage people about the evil that happened to them. That's all. We don't feel that something worse could have happened because American Jewry (and other Jewry outside of Europe at that time) was created decades before the Holocaust, and therefore we don't see its continued existence despite the Holocaust as a miracle. And this is regardless of what Deri or Goldknopf said. At most, you are essentially making claims to God with the same claims that Job made. Which is perfectly fine, of course. But for some reason, something convinced Job of the justice of God. It is not clear what, and the Ramban in the HaGmul chapter writes that it is a secret. That is, it is something that must be seen with the eyes and no explanation in words (which is the position on the familiar) will satisfy the mind of the ordinary person.
And the objective reader will judge between the two of us