“The time of giving our teachings”?
The Magen Avraham question is well-known (Och 5041): “I find it difficult how we say on Shavuot, the day of the giving of our Torah, that it is not permanent for Rabbi Yosi (Shabbat Po) who said on the 2nd of Sivan, it was given to the Pharisees on the 6th of Sevan (as it is written in Yod 6:26) and according to them, Shavuot is forever on the 2nd of Sivan.” What is your opinion on this question?
I found an interesting excuse from the Minchat Chinuch. He claims that although the Torah was given on the 2nd of Sivan to Rabbi Yossi, it was on the fiftieth day of the fifth month of Nissan, because Nissan and Iyar were both missing. If so, the Torah was given on the “Feast of the Assembly.” Therefore, today, when we say on the Feast of the Assembly, “the time of giving our Torah,” we mean that the giving of the Torah occurred on that day from the holiday itself, and not from the day of the month. Do you agree with such an excuse?
I quote his words (Mitzvah 69): “And truly we can say that we have decided that Rabbi Yosef and on the 7th of Sivan, the Torah was given on the 4th of Sivan. They ruled that on the eve of Shabbat, Israel left Egypt. Thus, Nisan was on the eve of Shabbat and was missing from Nisan, and the first day of the month of Iyar was on the 6th of Sivan, and the first day of the month of Sivan was on the 13th of Sivan, and the fifth day of Sivan, i.e., a good day, because in both cases Atzeret is missing on the 7th of Sivan, as explained before in the Gemara Shabbat there. Since the rabbis were both full, as in the case of Iyar, it would have been a missed day, so Rabbi Yosef could have excused that they were both missing. Thus, the Torah was given on the 7th of Sivan, and it was then the fiftieth day of Sivan, i.e., a good day. Therefore, we say on the 6th of Sivan, “The time of giving our Torah.” Even Rabbi Yosef explained that on the 7th of Sivan, it was then the fiftieth day of Sivan and a good day of Atzeret, therefore they also say, “The time of giving our Torah.”
What do you think? Do you have a better settlement in mind?
It is possible. But the simpler explanation is that if you are already celebrating the assembly, you add the giving of the Torah to it even if there is a difference of a day. It is not reasonable to celebrate the giving of the Torah on a separate, consecutive day immediately after it.
This means – according to you – that in fact the Feast of the Assembly and the Day of the Giving of the Torah are two different events, with different dates although close, and it is more convenient to celebrate them together.
And after all, from the perspective of the written Torah, we are commanded to celebrate only the Assembly with the cessation of work and the offering of two loaves of bread. The second event was added at a later stage to that day.
So today, although we observe the commandments that govern this”z (the cessation of work), we empty it of its inner meaning. We are not concerned with its essential content, but with the content of the Giving of the Torah that occurred on another day. The reading of the Torah in the presence of Per’ Yitro, the study all night, the eating of dairy products and the decoration of the house with greenery, are not related to the Feast of the Assembly, but to the Day of the Giving of the Torah.
Does this make sense?
In my opinion, yes. What's the problem? The assembly has no laws or character except for the prohibitions of work and sacrifices. So the character is taken from the giving of the Torah.
On the 14th of Sivan, the Torah was given in Sivan, but according to Rabbi Yossi, the day of the Ascension of Mount Sinai was actually in Sivan, since according to him, Moses added one day of his own accord, the Ascension was postponed by a day because the recipients were not yet ready, but from the perspective of the Giver, the Torah was ready to be given already in Sivan. This is how I remember the Maharashtrian in Tiferet Yisrael explains.
The Maharashtrian on Shabbat says that the addition of the day by Moses is a qualification to the Torah. Expresses the fear, which is the essence of the status of Mount Sinai ‘that His fear may be upon you’. We find that we have already achieved this fear in Sivan when Moses made a ‘qualification to the Torah’.
As such, I proposed to say that the ’giving of the Torah’ to Israel, means that the sages of Israel were given the authority to interpret the word of God according to their understanding and judgment. This is exactly what happened according to R’ Yossi in Sivan – Moses exercised his judgment and interpreted the ’third day’ that God said was ‘the third day He spent with Him’. The ability of the sage to interpret the Torah according to his understanding is the clearest revelation that the Torah was ‘given’ to Israel, and this occurred in ’ Sivan (according to R’ Yosi).
This is also seen in the intention of the Torah. When the Torah establishes a holiday on the day of the Exodus from Egypt and a second holiday beginning on one of the days of the ‘third month’, it is difficult to assume that this is a coincidence, and it is clear that the second holiday alludes to the status of Mount Sinai that occurred nearby. The physical freedom from slavery in Egypt was marked in advance as leading to ’When you come out of Egypt, you shall worship God on this mountain’. The ’And I brought you out ‘and I saved you’come to completion in ’I took you for a people and I became your God’.
There is a process here that parallels the Jubilee, on the fiftieth day of the fiftieth year, the sons who were far away return and are united with their Father in heaven. Freedom from ‘, liberation from foreign slavery, becomes in a structured process ’freedom to ‘ the destiny that the people receive to be ’a kingdom of priests and a holy nation’ to be representatives of ’Glory to the world..
At the same time, the Omer allowed the new in secular life, while the new offering on Shavuot marks the renewal also in the sacred.
With blessings, Sh”z
Precisely according to your words (which are wonderful in themselves) one should have celebrated the Sabbath, which is a day that was added according to Moses's understanding.
Maybe that is why instead of celebrating we are engaged in making amends to atone for the sin that we do not use the power given to us to add from our minds?
‘B”Siv”9
To Boaz – Shalom Rav,
The correction of Shavuot night’ truly expresses the idea that Moshe added a day of his own accord, in his opinion that the day’ should have its own night’, that the preparation for the day begins at night.
However, even Sivan is noteworthy, because it is a forbidden holiday and a second day of Galyot, to the delight of lovers of ‘halachic creativity’ 🙂
Best regards, Sh”t
L'Shch”l
Do you notice that the celebration of halachic creativity is also called, in the end, a forbidden holiday?
But in Yerushalmi (Avoda Zara 15:5) the day after the holiday is called ‘Briya Demuada’, the addition comes from love, as a son who is the continuation of the father.
With blessings, Sh”t
To the singers
I almost read over myself “Sherim (in the right hand) stopped at the words” and with a shriek, "My son, I have triumphed" (and "my son" is exactly like the love of a father for his son who gives him to do in his Torah as his heart desires), "My son, I have triumphed" (from which we learned the power of sons to dispute their Father in heaven and in the same way as in 52).
But at the last moment I remembered that in Jerusalem time the sighting of the month had not yet been canceled by witnesses, and at the time this passage was written in Jerusalem, the Feast of Weeks fell in the sixth month of Sivan, and Shafir rejoiced on that day and the day after it because they had added a day of their own accord.
On the 14th of Sivan, 9th
To Boaz, greetings,
If we mentioned the virtue of the ‘day after’, it is worth noting that the occasion of the making of the covenant was, according to the Ramban, in Exodus chapter 24, after the occasion of the making of the covenant (according to the opinion of Rabbi Yossi bar Yehuda in the Mekhilta).
According to the Ramban, the occasion of the making of the covenant was on the 6th of Sivan, and on that day Moses told the people ‘the words of the Lord; and all the laws’ and the people said: ‘All that the Lord has spoken; we will do’. The next day (7th of Sivan) the ‘Book of the Covenant’ is added Moses reads it in the ears of the people, and they declare: ‘All that the Lord has spoken, let us do and hear’.
On the other hand, according to Rashi (according to the Mekhilta), the narration of the ‘words of the covenant and the laws’ to the people and the reading of the ‘Book of the Covenant’ were on the 4th and 5th of Sivan, and the people's commitment ‘All that the Lord has spoken, let us do and hear’ preceded the establishment of Mount Sinai.
I wonder what Rabbi Yossi would say, who believes that the establishment of Mount Sinai took place on the 6th of Sivan? Would he believe, as Rabbi Yossi bar Yehuda did, that the reading of the Book of the Covenant and the saying ‘We will do and hear’ were on the 8th of Sivan? Sivan, or he may believe that chapter 24 took place before the presence of Mount Sinai, according to the opinion of the Mekhilta.
In any case, the collection of Parashah Yitro and Mishpatim indicates that the process of receiving the Torah by Israel was a complex and ongoing process that began at the beginning of the third month and continued at least until the seventh of Sivan, when Moses ascended the mountain for the fortieth day of receiving the tablets.
And perhaps the Torah is deliberately not interested in clearly defining the “time of giving our Torah,” since it is a complex and ongoing process, and it depends largely on our willingness to open ourselves to receiving the Torah.
The Feast of Shavuot described in the Torah is first and foremost a holiday in which we give to the Lord. We bring a “new offering” from the fruits of our labor, we bring to the Lord And to Levi the sojourner, the orphan, and the widow, our offering, as it is written, “Every seven days you shall make a voluntary offering of your hand.”
The Torah left some ambiguity about which stage in the process of giving the Torah and receiving it occurred precisely on this date, because in fact, the “time of giving our Torah” does not depend on a specific date, but rather on the time when we open our hearts and volunteer to receive the Torah, and as a voluntary offering of our heart, the gates of the Torah are opened and given to us.
,
With blessings, Sh’aretz
To Sh”el
Your words in the last lines are worthy of conclusion, indeed the Torah is above time (because it is known that it was created before this world, generations will stop, and time is one of the created things, as the Ramban wrote) on the holiday I thought that maybe that is why it is called Shavuot Atzeret because on it time stops.
With great appreciation
On the 14th of Sivan, 9th of September
To Boaz, greetings,
The term “Assembly” by which the Feast of Shavuot is referred to in the language of the Sages can be interpreted in two ways:
A. The end of a holiday, as in the Torah the seventh day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread and the eighth day of the Feast of Sukkot are called “Assembly.” Thus, the Feast of Shavuot is the end of the seven weeks of the harvest, which began with the raising of the Omer at the beginning of the sickle at the rising of the sun and ended with the Feast of Harvest, the first fruits of your labors, in which a new offering is brought to the Lord.
B. The Feast of Harvest The language of a gathering of people, such as ‘consecrate a fast, call it Aserah’. The event at Mount Sinai is also called in the Torah the Day of Assembly’ (Deuteronomy … ), as described: ‘The day you stood before the Lord your God with the sword, when the Lord said to me, Assemble the people and let them hear my words, so that they may learn to fear me forever…’ (Deuteronomy 10:10).
With blessings, Sh”t
Shavuot also marks a pause in life. At the most stressful time for a farmer. The harvest season has just ended, and the harvest season and the picking of the fruits of the tree are about to begin (I once wrote a comment on this called: ‘Shavuot –Between Bar and Tree’ 🙂 – And right in the middle of the pressure, the farmer braves everything and goes to Jerusalem in obedience to the commandments of his father.
Paragraph 2, line 2
… Also called in the Torah ‘Yom HaKahel’ (Deuteronomy 10:10). And as described…
After all the nice things, I have no choice but to go and celebrate the holiday of assembly (i.e., stop)?
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