Where was God in the destruction of the temple?

And does the rabbi agree with the claim? Doesn't it seem cruel and disproportionate to allow mothers to cook tender infants who have not sinned? The descriptions from the Holocaust are difficult to read, and it seems cruel and harsh to an unbelievable level. Is this what a compassionate and compassionate father looks like? Would you raise your own children this way?

Even with regard to the Holocaust, it is not enough to say that it was the work of humans. It is still difficult to understand why God did not intervene and prevent it.
Regarding the destruction, there is terrible human suffering all the time. It does not really matter to a particular person that there are thousands around him who are also suffering in the same way. Therefore, the problem of the destruction or the Holocaust does not seem to me more difficult than terrible human suffering everywhere and at all times.
As for the very assumption that the destruction was the work of God, it is reasonable with regard to the First Temple (where there were prophets who prophesied this). But with regard to the Second Temple, I am not at all sure that it was not the work of humans.
In general, I do not have a good explanation for the way God behaves. But it is clear that this should not be compared to the education of a parent to his children. In particular, children are not guilty even if they do not do what is right in the eyes of their father, and adults are. And also because God knows better what the consequences of actions are and how critical it is, and it is probably more serious than the injustices that children commit. So these comparisons are pointless. I suppose that those things that are indeed his handiwork are probably a response to actions with very serious consequences.

In the prophecies of Ezekiel it is told how he got on the chariot and left the Temple.

Thank you for your patient answers, if possible.

I agree that the answer that it was done by humans does not fully answer, but there is still a fundamental difference between a situation in which the Kabba has chosen a policy of inattention in general, and that it does not intervene in any situation even when there is a Holocaust.
and a situation in which it seems that its policy is intervention and in any case it does not intervene in an injustice as great as the destruction.
The difference is that in a state of affairs of interventionist policy there is much more room to think that this is a personal planning of the Kabba and not just its lack of intervention in the injustices of humans.

This is also the difference between the suffering of one person and the suffering of an entire people, there is greater room to assume that the suffering of an entire nation is planned in some way, than the random suffering of this or that person.

Regarding the comparison to father and son, this is the comparison that Zehl makes but you can disagree and I also quite accept… But even when you choose to compare a king and a mature and responsible people, this is a king who seems very cruel, and who is difficult to call compassionate and compassionate…

In conclusion: What benefit did you actually want to achieve with your claim about the Holocaust being done by mere humans, if that doesn't answer, and the difficulty isn't great either?
Thank you very much!

As I wrote, in a situation where he was involved, the destruction was his own doing, not just that he did not intervene. The comparison between one person and many does not concern the question of why he does not intervene. One law is a law of a hundred.
My argument regarding the Holocaust is that, in principle, evil is the result of human actions. There is a general policy of God not to intervene, and it is difficult to draw a line as to when He is supposed to intervene (why does the suffering of one person not justify intervention). But if He goes back to interfering in everything, then we have no choice and there is no meaning to all our actions and to the creation of the world in general.
The example of the Holocaust is to explain the principle. I did not intend to learn anything special from the Holocaust.
As stated, I do not think you can conclude that he was cruel. At the time when he was in charge of affairs – one probably needs to understand the significant consequences of our actions and the necessity of punishment in order to judge his actions. And at the time when he is not involved – There I already explained that it is very important for Him to give us a choice and His involvement monitors our choice. Without this, there is no point in creating the world at all.
People do things to themselves (that is, to other people, but this is a claim against all of humanity), and we should not make claims against God who gave us the choice to do so.

A demagogic question.
What is special about the Holocaust or the Holocaust? People die every day.

Why don't you ask why God doesn't intervene and prevent old age, disease, and death?

Answer: You're not bothered by God and what's happening, but you are bothered by the realization that we humans are cruel.

People die every day, and the Holocaust and destruction do not happen every day, old age is natural, and the Holocaust is unnatural, find more differences?
You did not explain why the question is demagogic, you simply stated that it is, and added a demagogic statement why I do not ask about old age, diseases and death, who said I do not ask? In my opinion, this is indeed a question…
But there are levels of difficulty, level 1. Old age, diseases and death. 2. A Holocaust that took place in a period when there was no providence. 3. Destruction in a period when there was prophecy and providence.
Do you have a satisfactory answer to all of this? If so, great, what does demagogy have to do with it?
The rabbi's last answer is actually relatively reassuring in my opinion…

It is demagogic because in fact, many more people die from old age and disease than from the emotional events you mentioned.

If what bothers you is death, you should have asked about old age and disease. Hoy says what bothers you is not death but the gimmicks.

We'll stop here, this is not a culture of discussion that I'm used to, I highly doubt whether it can lead to an investigation of the truth, you don't know me and you have no way of assuming my hidden intentions, if you have a claim to the substance of things, make it and I'll be happy to discuss it in a substantive manner, if you don't, we'll stop here.

Indeed, I did not try to have a discussion at all. It was a general comment indicating that the question was not intended to investigate the truth in the first place and, on the contrary, it was intended to evade the truth.
And the truth is that people are cruel and stupid and they die with or without regard to their cruelty and stupidity.

Simcha, you probably don't know the site well enough. The way of the ‘Last Judge’, as his name suggests, is not to hold discussions but to make firm statements. This is how one should treat (or not treat, which is what I usually do) his words.

🙂

On the 12th of Av,

The Holy One of Israel already warned in the Torah that breaking the covenant with Him could lead to exile and destruction. These words were spoken in the Torah and repeated by the prophets in the generations leading up to the destruction. Even decades before the destruction of the Second Temple, there were signs of bad omens. The Sanhedrin exiled the people from the Gazit Chamber because the murderers were numerous. And Rabbi Tzadok fasted for forty years, foreseeing the coming destruction.

The warnings of the prophets and sages in advance did not prevent the destruction because the people did not listen to them, but they were useful, because after the destruction the people realized that the warnings had been fulfilled, and a process of repentance and correction began. After the first destruction, The grave sins of idolatry, incest, and bloodshed disappear from the horizon of the Jewish people. Only hundreds of years later will hatred and polarization awaken and lead to the second destruction.

Even after the second destruction, a process of restoration and re-formation of the entire people began around the leadership of the sages in Yavneh, and its continuations: Usha and Shfaram, Zippori and Tiberias, and the yeshivas of Babylon. The polarization and division that marked the end of the Second Temple period gave way to a relatively unified leadership around the Oral Torah and its sages. A relative unity that lasted for about 1800 years until the outbreak of enlightenment and modernity, which broke down the walls of separation between Israel and the cultures of the nations of the world.

During the days of exile, there were processes of peace and integration into the cultures of the surrounding peoples, which ended with the awakening of hatred of the Gentiles, persecutions and deportations, when Jews disillusioned with the illusion of a false refuge in Spain or Germany - the gates were opened in other countries, in the Middle East and Eastern Europe, and so on, as described by the "Machach Hochma" in the parsha of the Laws.

The peak of the mistaken idea that it was possible to break through the iron barrier between Israel and the nations and reach a state of "all the Gentiles are the house of Israel" reached its peak in Europe in the 19th-20th centuries, when Jews thought that the European "Enlightenment" would allow the erasure of the distinct Jewish identity, so that we could think that "Berlin is Jerusalem"

But here the prophet Ezekiel's warning against the ’Selka Da'ata’ that’Like all the Gentiles, the house of Israel’ was fulfilled. The Holocaust was the fulfillment of his prophecy with a strong hand and with a wrath poured out I will reign over you’. Those Gentiles with whom we thought we would merge – vomited us out and persecuted us to the point of destruction, and their terrible hatred reminded us that we have no choice but to return to our land and proudly preserve our Jewish identity.

The destructions are difficult and terrible – But they also heal us and return us to the path – to which we were destined – to adhere to our divine destiny.

With blessings, Amioz Yaron Schnitzel”R

World War II was also the beginning of a global process of correction. If until the terrible Holocaust, war was an inseparable part of world culture. The trauma of a world war with sixty million casualties, and the development of weapons of mass destruction that created a ‘balance of terror’ – created a trauma that removed war from the global ’lexicon’, ‘and the land was quiet’ for more than 75 years!

Rabbi Michi
Regarding the destruction of the First Temple – Can you describe how you think God was involved?
Did the Babylonians who set fire to the Temple not have free will and did they behave like robots?
And if they did have free will, in what ways did God help them?
Was it through overt or covert miracles?

I have no idea. I know there were prophecies about it and it came true so it must have been from the Lord. Whether he did it through a gnat on Nebuchadnezzar's head or a fly on the city wall, ask him. How should I know?