Q&A: "Gedoil Hadoir" and a Coronavirus Vaccine
"Gedoil Hadoir" and a Coronavirus Vaccine
Question
Hello,
"The Gedoil Hadoir" from Bnei Brak, famous for his blessings, blessed everyone who donates 3,000 NIS to "Kupat Ha'ir" (up to 30 payments) that they should merit not to catch coronavirus. But astonishingly, 30 hours later (measure for measure, as above), after this promise was publicized, a notice was issued canceling public reception hours at his home out of concern for coronavirus. Does this amount to an admission against interest that his blessings are in vain?
Regards, Benjamin
P.S. I am asking in full seriousness: how should one relate to this astonishing phenomenon?
Answer
The fact that you're asking seriously is the most troubling thing here. The fact that he blesses you not to get infected does not mean that he is certain you won't get infected. He's making his effort through a blessing. Were it not for your blatant bias, I'm sure you would have come up with this "astonishing" excuse on your own.
Discussion on Answer
******It wasn't for nothing that I deleted this stupid question, so what's the point of discussing it?*******
I don't know what the writer meant, but in Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky's own words I didn't see promises, only wishes and blessings. Are you setting one person's statement against another's?
Why is the Rabbi being exceptionally patient with Benjamin Goralin? (If only he'd be that patient with me too…)
Where was I not patient with you? If it wasn't as it should have been, I ask forgiveness. Do you have a sample link?
Is that you under the handle 'A Question for Benjamin' that I deleted above? I thought there was no point discussing a deleted question. If I deleted Benjamin's question, then I wasn't patient in that matter with him either, so I don't understand the claim of discrimination. The question is silly and provocative, and there's no point discussing it. That's unlike the question here about Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky, which is indeed tinged with bias, but there is a question there, and so I answered it.
That was me.
I don't feel any 'jealousy' regarding the way Benjamin Goralin is treated. I completely understand why you took down his question and my comment.
I'm just very surprised why you give a platform to his compulsive taunts, which are phrased as questions and cover for the expression of a position (especially since the questioner is publicly known as a notorious troll).
The claims are superficial and expressed in a way that lowers the level of your site.
The question you removed is one example, but there are more questions of his like that, for example: "Why are Haredim afraid of dogs?"
https://mikyab.net/%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%9E%D7%93%D7%95%D7%A2-%D7%97%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%99%D7%93%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%9E%D7%A4%D7%97%D7%93%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%9E%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%91%D7%99%D7%9D
There was a question there, and I answered what I answered, and then left the discussion. As I explained, bias exists in many places, and that by itself does not disqualify a question/comment. What matters is whether there is a question here for discussion, not what the questioner's agenda is.
I don't pretend to operate by unequivocal criteria, certainly not formally articulated ones, so borderline cases may occur. But broadly speaking, what I described here is my policy. As a rule, I really try not to censor comments.
I'll add that today I censored another comment, from someone with the handle Levi. There was rudeness there, but that's not what caused me to delete it (rudeness toward others does get deleted. But rudeness toward me really doesn't bother me. On the contrary, I'm rather amused by it). There simply was no claim or question there at all, only abuse, and therefore it was deleted. And I also wrote there that it was deleted because of the lack of relevant content, not because of the rudeness.
Good morning everyone,
Rabbi Michi hasn't deleted even a single question of mine; I don't know what the comment above is referring to. Perhaps it was an impersonator?
My email address is exposed and visible to his honor, as is known…
If we're talking about the question that mentioned oranges, then yes, I was joking around. But of course I wasn't trying to impersonate anyone (that is, to mislead), only to give a variation on the name.
In my view, the question was fitting sarcastic criticism. But if someone thought that you (the original Benjamin Goralin) were the one who asked it, and especially if Rabbi Michael Abraham himself thought so, then I apologize to you, Benjamin.
!PDNFTT
(Please Do Not Feed The Troll)
https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%98%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%9C_(%D7%90%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%98%D7%A8%D7%A0%D7%98)
From the link above:
"However, the term troll is also used as trolling, and trolls use it against a person who is not a troll in order to belittle his intelligence, humiliate him, and render the accused person's words meaningless, so that he will not receive proper consideration from the other participants in the discussion. Or because of the accuser's intellectual inability to cope with his statements; this situation is called 'reverse trolling.' Another situation is a mistaken accusation because the person's words were not properly understood—whether because of style of expression, spelling mistakes, or a new or unconventional argument."
Rabbi, the issue is not the question itself, which anyone could have asked in a normal way. The issue is the tone and style. He insists every time on distorting the word "Haredi" and more besides, and he repeatedly insists on generalizing and making sweeping claims without any qualification.
I regularly follow the responsa on the site, and this style is very irritating and really unpleasant, and it also stands out from the rest of the questions.
There's no problem with joking or generalizing once in a while, but here it's consistent, blunt, and with a clear agenda.
I am Haredi, so I do have a personal stake in it, but I'm not made of sugar and I know how to take criticism. In my opinion, he goes beyond the bounds of good taste.
I'm not calling to censor the questions themselves, but it would be very worthwhile to moderate the style, because it really is getting tiresome.
With God's help, eve of the holy Sabbath, "and each man shall give an atonement for his soul," 5780
Prayer, repentance, and charity are appropriate after a person has fulfilled the duty of making a reasonable effort not to rely on a miracle. And since the experts in the Ministry of Health recommend avoiding gatherings of many people, especially when they are crowded together in enclosed places, they were therefore concerned and canceled the reception hours at Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky's home.
After reasonable effort, a person still needs much heavenly assistance, and one should increase repentance, prayer, and charity, which avert the evil decree. And it seems to me that a standing order for "Kupat Ha'ir" is fitting charity, particularly for the residents of Bnei Brak, regarding whom the rule is "the poor of your own city come first." And to the donors is added the prayer and blessing of a sage and righteous man such as Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky.
And an emotional call to the site's visitors:
In my humble opinion, in this place we are obligated by the rule "the poor of your own site come first." We have unfortunate trolls starving for attention ("tzumi," in the vernacular), and whoever feeds them thereby fulfills the commandment of charity in the finest way. Especially since among them are several modest Torah scholars who hide their identity—feeding them is an especially elevated fulfillment of anonymous charity, which forces the nose not to run and the throat not to cough, and may blessing be upon the One who nourishes all…
And of course, the essence of charity is when one gives to the poor with a pleasant countenance and willing soul, and therefore when feeding the troll, it should be done with a smiling face from the depths of the spleen 🙂
With every blessing, Mumin-Troll
Indeed, I was referring to the oranges question. I thought it really was a question from Benjamin (which in itself says something. If it had been under a different handle, I probably wouldn't have made that mistake).
I definitely join the request to tone down the bias and focus on relevant questions, but as for my deletion policy, what I said above stands.
The whole idea was to give the initial illusion that it really was Benjamin Goralin, and then stretch the bounds of absurdity until the reader would be astonished and understand that it was satirical (satire at the expense of the original questioner, of course, not of the objects of his ridiculous attacks).
Anyone with a bit of sense in his head understands that despite the denials, Genyamin Borlin is in fact Benjamin Goralin.
And I again ask him to soften his writing style, despite the fact that I am formerly Haredi and hold atheist views.
Chaim, let it go. I hope I have some sense in my head, and I'm telling you as a matter of knowledge that it's not him. That's it.
In the link below it is stated explicitly that the "Gedoil Hadoir" can take the entire world upon himself, meaning that his blessing is guaranteed to be fulfilled, since that is the enormous responsibility he is taking upon himself.
A mere blessing carries no responsibility at all; that is clear to anyone with a sound mind…
https://www.kupat.org.il/news/235?source=kikr15