From what was written it seems he didn't issue a general instruction at all, but rather, like the idea you raised, he answered this in a *particular* way only to yeshiva heads who asked him about it, where they were implementing the capsule outline in full (and besides that, I think I saw that the yeshiva they were talking about is anyway sufficiently closed on a normal day too, and without cell phones at all…).
Presumably it was because of concern over neglect of Torah study and spiritual deterioration. In any case, from what I understood from the articles, he did not issue such a general instruction…

Benyamiiiin, why don't you ask Rabbi Kanievsky himself?
You're asking and requesting a response from someone who doesn't ask the rabbi, doesn't know the rabbi, and doesn't recognize the concept of "faith in the sages"?

As for the matter itself,
While the secular crowd are raping a girl en masse in Eilat, yeshiva students in dormitories are going through extraordinary hardships so they can study.
I have sons in yeshivas and I also hear from my friends about the difficulty of getting organized in the yeshiva.
They do not leave the yeshiva!!!!!!! and do not come into contact with anyone except the yeshiva students.

How is this different from a corona hotel???? Do they also do tests in a corona hotel???

Why are you looking for deep explanations for things that are so simple??? Open your eyes and see where you live!!!!

Tzachi is completely right, you just have to make sure that only yeshiva students who don't leave the yeshiva are allowed this.
Even though the question still comes up whether the virus has side effects and whether freedom of choice should be allowed to the student so he knows about the danger (though anyway if he's in a corona hotel I think he'll be no less at risk)…

People need to stop with the inflammatory and anti-Semitic discourse against the Haredim!!! This is our time to go to war against the vermin from the media! To show them that we're better than them in taking care of your health, in morality, and in everything!!! While those clucking critics keep trying to blame us all the time. Clowns.

Hello Tzachi!
They don't go out to the nearby grocery to buy pastries, milk, etc.?
They order everything online on their kosher phone?
I studied in one of the closed yeshivas in Bnei Brak and we still used to go out to the groceries around the yeshiva and to pizza places etc., even during Elul, and nobody said a word. It's very hard for me to believe there is a yeshiva where the boys are actually shut inside the building without going out. (Aside from Or Yisrael?) In addition, in most yeshivas on Rosh Hashanah elderly people from outside the yeshiva come to pray in the yeshiva, and likewise for talks by many mashgichim many people come from outside.
Best regards.
And in addition, even if the claim is indeed true, it is impossible that a person who has not taken upon himself the treatment of the coronavirus for all citizens should decide for some of them without taking into account the consequences for the others. If every group decides for itself according to its own logic and value system, our situation will be very bad. In Arab society there is a kind of religious obligation to come to the wedding of anyone who came to your wedding; this is a high value in their eyes, about like neglect of Torah study is for us. Would you want them to decide for themselves?

Any shred of seriousness in discussing the chatter of the holy old man who lives in la-la land is absurd. What happened to the ability of his attendants to tell him, grandpa, come drink a cup of tea, come, want a cookie, here, breathe, breathe, say, is it possible to perform the ritual of the heifer with the broken neck next to a flowing puddle like they do at Tashlich?

האשמים לשנאת החרדים.

With God's help, 14 Elul 5780

Already half a year ago Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky and Rabbi Gershon Edelstein instructed the boundaries and conditions under which it is possible to study in yeshivas: ventilated rooms; "space between one flock and another" (capsules, in the vernacular), a supervisor responsible for caution; and the avoidance by the sick or possibly sick from coming to the study hall so as not to be "causing harm to others" (when the Ministry of Health required wearing a mask—the rabbis added this requirement as well).

It is therefore clear that a student who feels healthy, and makes sure that the time of Elul will be "Elul," a time of diligence and immersion in Torah, while maintaining the boundaries and safeguards, both Torah-based and health-based, and of course refraining from leaving the yeshiva, not for weddings and certainly not for wandering around—then spiritual and physical dangers alike are spared from him.

Best regards, Shtz

On the problematic nature of the tests, which do not distinguish between a live virus that can infect and the remains of a virus that died long ago and has no chance at all, Professor Yoram Lass already addressed this in his letter to the Director-General of the Ministry of Health, Professor Hezi Levi. To identify a live and active virus, Professor Lass says, a culture is needed.

It follows, then, that even someone who was tested and found "positive" may actually be carrying a dead virus, and thus causes unnecessary isolation for everyone who was close to him and unnecessary inflation of the "infected statistics." Therefore, on the face of it, the guidance published in the name of Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky makes sense—that a healthy yeshiva student without symptoms should not be tested for no reason, lest he cause a waste of time with no real medical need.

And of course, someone who feels symptoms should be tested and undergo all the tests and treatments according to the doctors' instructions, and be careful not to enter the study hall and not to be "causing harm to others," as the rabbis instructed.

With wishes for robust health, Shtz

For clarification:
How much should a person give up his principles in order to look good if there is indeed logic in what he says? In general, the sentence that there is some logic in what he says, and the continuation that the public will say that his words are foolish, requires clarification.

There is no giving up of principles here at all. Just common sense and learning from experience. When he issues such instructions there is no control, and there cannot be control. This is not a private individual deciding to cut corners. These are irresponsible words of nonsense, and they are also not within his authority (all my comments are from that column). What I wrote is that in the things themselves, if it were possible to ensure that they were implemented only in hermetically sealed places, if such places even exist (and note that at the end of the term this hornet's nest doesn't go back out into the homes), there is some logic to it.

Hello our Rabbi.

You wrote: "I'm not surprised, but if his words are directed also at those who according to the guidelines do need to be tested, then this man should have been put in jail for incitement and agitation," and: "These are irresponsible words of nonsense, and they are also not within his authority."

I do not support Rabbi Kanievsky's views, and I was among the first to argue here on the site that he should resign from his position as minister (of Torah), even before the column in question.

Nevertheless, as far as I know there is no legal obligation whatsoever to be tested, in any situation. No law was legislated, and there is not even such a regulation (as opposed to obligations of isolation or wearing a mask).

Therefore even if these are nonsense (in my opinion this time, unusually, not), there is no issue here of authority. As long as the instruction does not conflict with the law, everyone is permitted to instruct others as he wishes, and the listener will choose whether to obey.

I would be happy for a response!

I don't know what response you expected.
I can tell you and the rest of the commenters, aside from Mr. Simcha the "great know-it-all,"
I am just now returning from a Thursday-night visit to my son's yeshiva.
You can meet the boys only when an oilcloth nylon partition separates us. And even that only when there is a barrier keeping him away from the nylon on one side and me away from it on the other side.
For those who don't know (and especially Mr. Simcha the "great know-it-all"), the parents had to hand over guarantee checks because a student who does not follow the capsule rules can be fined.
Yes! The yeshiva gives out tickets!!

At my nephew's yeshiva in Kiryat Sefer there is a grocery opposite the yeshiva. At 12:00 at night police vans arrived and opened a route for the boys so that only they could buy in the grocery and return to the yeshiva without endangering anyone.
So if Simcha the know-it-all studied in a yeshiva that doesn't keep the rules, or there are other yeshivas that do whatever they feel like—that has nothing to do
with Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky.
And Benyomayn Goralyayn the golem is invited to chew over his questions together with the nuts at the Sabbath table!!

With God's help, eve of the holy Sabbath, "Blessed shall you be when you come, and blessed shall you be when you go," 5780

The reports of a rise in "morbidity" in the Haredi public recently stem from increased testing in the yeshivas. The more scrupulous among the yeshiva heads made sure to test all the boys coming from bein hazmanim, which is not done in any secular educational institution and on no secular street, and plainly when you test a whole population—you find more "carriers" of the virus.

If they were to test all the customers of the cafes on Gaza Street and all the participants in the demonstrations on nearby Balfour Street—they would discover that Rehavia is a blazing red neighborhood, and I, the undersigned, who work in the area, would be stuck in lockdown until the coming of the righteous redeemer. But to my great good fortune, my neighbors in Rehavia are not "suckers" like the Haredim, and do not go en masse to be tested; therefore the Haredim are "red" and the people of Rehavia are "green."

These are the wonders of the "religion of medidatzia," which flips the colors like the red heifer flips from impurity to purity and vice versa 🙂

Best regards, black yellow white

Hello again, Tzachi!
I didn't understand what all the outrage was about. I described the conduct in my yeshiva when I studied there 10 years ago, not in the days of corona, and the level of control that there really is over the boys.
I don't understand what difference it makes what happens in your son's yeshiva. What matters is whether one can issue an instruction to the general public when you are not the one who is going to monitor and make sure what is happening there.
Is the situation you described the situation in all yeshivas, in most, in some known part? Does Rabbi Chaim or someone around him know in which yeshivas they observe and in which they don't? Will what is now being observed hold up throughout all of Elul? Is it only the younger groups that observe it, or the older ones as well? Does nobody go out on dates with girls?

I did not present myself as a great know-it-all. I asked questions, and I still have not received an answer. There is some yeshiva in which they apparently observe strict rules. Fine. And what does that say about the rule as a whole?

A clear example of the rule that when you test whole populations you find high percentages: I just saw in an article (on Channel 7) about the "coronavirus outbreak at Officer Training School 1": following two female soldiers who were found confirmed with coronavirus, they tested the whole base and found 30 coronavirus carriers, all in mild condition. And if so in the officers' school where high discipline is practiced—you can imagine what happens in the general public.

In short: all the measurements and statistics are utter nonsense. The main thing is to be strict about wearing masks and hygiene, and avoiding close proximity between people, and when one feels symptoms to go and get tested. Most coronavirus carriers do not suffer from any symptoms whatsoever or only mild symptoms, and the tiny minority of the tiny minority will be tested and treated. The name of the game is: caution without hysteria, and may God send all of us bodily health and excellent well-being.

Best regards, caution without hysterical measures

And I still haven't understood why anyone pays any attention at all to the chatter of the holy old man. Turns out what he said is right, turns out what he said is wrong—so what? My advice to his attendants is that they bring him a few candies, stroke his hand affectionately, let him cut a few curls for a first haircut, and ask him about the laws of the boils of the burn.

Public Relations, nobody pays attention to your nonsense either!

Line 4:
… in the laws of heartburn of the burn.

And a note:
In the laws of skin afflictions they study exactly the ways of coping with contagious skin diseases, through "quarantine," "isolation," and "he shall cover over his upper lip" 🙂

Best regards, caution is needed without hysteria

"And I will give children to be their princes, and the deranged shall rule over them," Isaiah promised. One verse says, "and a little child shall lead them," and another verse says, "for the youth shall die a hundred years old." Happy are we, the last generation, that we have merited to witness the words of the prophet, something the earlier generations did not merit. If you happen to be near the dear little grandpa, maybe give him a tissue to stick up his nose and smile at him a bit so he'll be happy.

https://mobile.mako.co.il/news-politics/2020_q3/Article-def2c601d386471027.htm

If this is what the former Minister of Defense tells us, what shall the lowly folk from the Haredi enclaves say?!

Why go far? Here, from Channel 12 News:
Gamzu retracts his remarks about Rabbi Kanievsky: "I regret the misunderstanding"
The Haredi sector has been in an uproar in recent days following the coronavirus commissioner’s remarks about the leader of the Lithuanian Haredi public, Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky • Gamzu accused the rabbi of endangering Haredi society by calling on yeshiva students not to get tested • Now, Professor Gamzu apologizes: "From an examination I conducted, it turns out that there is no instruction and no instruction was given by Rabbi Kanievsky not to get tested—I regret the misunderstanding"

With God's help, 19 Elul 5780

As stated in the article "Israel a red country?—not necessarily at all," economist Professor Nissim Ben-David (president of Western Galilee Academic College) says that the State of Israel received the label of a "red country" because here they do several times more tests than is common in the Western world, and when you test more—you find more. That may be good medically, but it complicates things for us economically through negative labeling in the world.

Best regards, Shtz

And I already noted above the words of Professor Yoram Lass about the problematic nature of the test, which cannot distinguish between a live virus and a dead virus. Therefore the tests do not at all reflect the number of newly infected people, but the number of people who were ever exposed to the virus, including those whose natural immunity killed the virus long ago. To know whether it is really a live and active virus, according to Professor Lass one must do a "culture."

This error explains very well why despite the "explosion of the infected," there is no increase in the rate of severe patients or in mortality. The "explosion" is in the "tested," not in the "infected" 🙂 In my humble opinion the main thing is to be strict about washing hands, wearing masks, and spacing between people and not crowding too much. And simply calm down…

And see further in Ido Efrati's article: "Doctors in a Knesset discussion: stop the scare tactics, stop talking about a lockdown," on the Haaretz website)

Major General (res.) Matan Vilnai says in an interview on Channel 7 that when he was the minister for home front defense, an emergency plan was prepared also for situations of a pandemic, according to which the heads of the local authorities who know their city, with the help of their security officers and the Home Front Command liaison unit, would lead the response to the pandemic. Vilnai regrets that for political reasons the plan that had been drilled was not activated.

Best regards, Shtz

Hello our Rabbi.

A few days ago in the thread above I wrote a comment here, and I would be happy if you would respond.

You wrote: "I'm not surprised, but if his words are directed also at those who according to the guidelines do need to be tested, then this man should have been put in jail for incitement and agitation," and: "These are irresponsible words of nonsense, and they are also not within his authority."

I do not support Rabbi Kanievsky's views, and I was among the first to argue here on the site that he should resign from his position as minister (of Torah), even before the column in question.

Nevertheless, as far as I know there is no legal obligation whatsoever to be tested, in any situation. No law was legislated, and there is not even such a regulation (as opposed to obligations of isolation or wearing a mask).

Therefore even if these are nonsense (in my opinion this time, unusually, not), there is no issue here of authority. As long as the instruction does not conflict with the law, everyone is permitted to instruct others as he wishes, and the listener will choose whether to obey.

Aharon

I have nothing to respond. I wrote that if he instructs against an obligation (as was the case the previous time), he should be put in jail. That is indeed correct.

Another thing: it was published that the Bnei Brak municipality is calling on healthy residents to get tested in order to lower the percentage of sick people and move from "red" to "orange," and this is the wording of its announcement:

"We call on and appeal to all the residents of our city: tomorrow during the day free testing compounds will operate throughout the city. Go get tested! Even if you feel excellent and healthy, and precisely because of that, this will be our proof, with God's help, that Bnei Brak is strong and healthy. Not red and not a center of illness, God forbid."

Here is the source:
https://www.kikar.co.il/373683.html

Do you see this as manipulation?

Aharon

Righteous Aharon, (stress on the penultimate syllable),
Have you sunk into some deep Talmudic passage??

Retroactively it became clear that the whole thing was fiction and, in plain Hebrew, nonsense.
Besides, you got a sea of responses…

I don't know what the meaning of manipulation is. As long as the tests are real, and certainly the call to get tested is proper and beneficial, then what's the problem? On the contrary, in my opinion one of the rationales of the traffic-light policy is to incentivize municipalities and people to act against the coronavirus. So it's excellent that here this is actually being done.

Needless to say, nothing was clarified. Neither fiction nor nonsense.

Too bad.
You can read in my comment above a quote from Channel 12 News regarding Gamzu regretting the misunderstanding.
And anyone who wants can look directly at Channel 12 News.
Indeed, fiction and nonsense.

There is manipulation here because in other cities only someone who suspects he is sick goes to get tested.

In Bnei Brak they are intentionally testing healthy people in order to influence the data.

This trick causes the numerical data not to reflect reality.

Tzachi, I didn't understand what the nonsense is.

Second, when a response is requested from the rabbi, apparently your response is not an equal substitute.

Look at Channel 12 News and also at Walla and Maariv and more. Please get updated!!
No such instruction was given by Rabbi Chaim. And the projector shuffling around in flip-flops also retracted his words.
A response from the honorable rabbi is certainly more respectable than from little me.
But what can I do—I'm a man on the ground and I know what's happening from the inside. And there is no substitute for a response that comes from internal information!

Someone updated from "Channel 12 News and also Walla and Maariv" is an armchair man, not a man on the ground.

Master of the universe. I'm already sick of the shallowness of the people here. Every single thing has to be explained in kindergarten detail.
I wrote you above a response from a visit I made to my son's yeshiva in Jerusalem, and information I have on additional yeshivas like my nephew's yeshiva, or those of my friends' sons.
You have absolutely no knowledge of what is happening in the yeshiva world and you haven't even bothered to take a look.
You're not updated even in the news. So what are you updated on exactly???

Forgive me. I retract.
In the comment in question that I wrote above I forgot to mention my name (which is not really my name), Tzachi.

I wasn't dealing with what happens in yeshivas.

My discussion above focused only on Rabbi Kanievsky's words and whether they constitute incitement.
A "man on the ground" on this matter is someone who walks around in the house on Rashbam Street.
If you are not one of the household, you are not a man on the ground on this matter.

Best regards,
Aharon the shallow

To Aharon—greetings,

After all, the whole turning of the Haredi cities began with manipulation. In contrast to the situation everywhere else, where only someone who feels symptoms goes to be tested—here before the start of the term they tested hundreds of yeshiva students without symptoms, and naturally when you test more you find more, since the test does not distinguish between a live virus and a dead one.

The second stage in the manipulation was to attach the "positives" who have already been in the yeshivas for two weeks to the cities from which they left, and thus cities whose heads cooperated and did everything to reduce morbidity were turned into "reds" unjustly. And unnecessary and unjustified suffering was caused to their populations.

Let us hope that the heads of the health system, who entered isolation on the very day they unlawfully canceled the schooling of tens of thousands of schoolchildren, will understand that they need to recalculate the route.

It would be worthwhile for you to read the criticism of Dr. Aliza Bloch, mayor of Beit Shemesh, of the conduct of the senior Ministry of Health officials who impose decrees without coordinating and consulting with the heads of the local authorities who know the situation in their city.

Best regards, Shtz (grandfather of four grandchildren in Beit Shemesh)

Ahhhhh. I get ittttt.

So if I may. Since we are discussing a theoretical question, seeing as Rabbi Chaim did not say this, and the same mouth that forbade is the mouth that permitted.
Since Goralin brought the source from Ynet, and some news site or another disproved the information,
then we should discuss whether still, theoretically, what Rabbi Chaim said is rebellion against the kingdom of heaven and the State of Israel?
Which makes decisions out of political motives. Which makes decisions based on presentations and graphs and not at the field level (I don't know if you happened to hear Moshe Leon on the radio. And I think not).
And apparently they too understand that "field level" means being in Gamzu's house or inside the Ministry of Health.
Shall we continue? The State of Israel that makes decisions off the cuff. (And it doesn't seem you happened to watch the committee of Ms. Shasha.)
So you heard some sentence that Rabbi Chaim said and you jump?
Check deeply and ask questions.
But after all the question is only theoretical?
Fine. I have to say, you've really tangled me up.
Success to you, Rabbi Aharon.

The criticism of Beit Shemesh mayor Dr. Aliza Bloch of the conduct of those imposing the lockdown appears in the articles: "Aliza Bloch fights the imposition of a lockdown on Beit Shemesh" and "Aliza Bloch: I am still waiting," (on the Channel 7 website, 17-18 Elul). We too are waiting 🙂

Best regards, Shtz

Apparently you didn't read my words.

I didn't jump.
I explained why in my opinion there is no problem with such an instruction (whether it was said or whether it wasn't).

Just for anyone who doesn't understand what Gamzu meant when he said the instruction did not come from Rabbi Kanievsky:
The rabbi had a stroke a few months ago, and no instruction comes from his mouth.
You can see his condition from the few pictures and videos that the household members release.
And as Amit Segal explained, it's all an internal quarrel between courts; Kanievsky's people want to fight the competitors and therefore put out bizarre instructions supposedly in his name.

Here you go, friends:
https://news.walla.co.il/item/3389171
I remind you that in the bitter arguments that were here about the capsule outline in the yeshivas and about the iron discipline they would impose so that nobody would go anywhere (yeah right), I wondered what would happen when the guys went out for bein hazmanim.

What's the content, for those blocked from access?

Hundreds infected in yeshivas and in the Haredi world generally, because the capsule outline was not observed. And in the Ministry of Health they are very worried about the return home on the night after Yom Kippur. They are predicting what they call a mass casualty event.

I'm not sure that's what will happen, but of course this whole issue involves taking serious risks,
because in a yeshiva that has one corona patient there are probably already hundreds infected, and I assume it's very hard not to notice that. And in that case, as far as I know, they no longer release the whole yeshiva after Yom Kippur. If so, what's the chance that there is someone sick with corona in the yeshiva who won't cause infection of a huge part of the yeshiva so that no one notices?
On the other hand, if in recent days there was someone who entered the yeshiva and infected even one person, then it is possible that this one person, who developed symptoms only very recently, could still on Yom Kippur infect broad parts of an entire yeshiva, God forbid, may the Merciful One save us.

—-
By the way, Rabbi, I'm not really familiar with yeshivas that implement the capsule outline, but from what one hears in the media it sounds like some of the infections occurred because of one person who left the yeshiva, or because of the open capsule, and if so then it's not because of the boys.

And the simple solution: send the workers of the testing system out for bein hazmanim. They have already tested a quarter of the country and found that more than 10% carry the coronavirus. One may assume that about a million coronavirus carriers exist in Israel, and almost all of them are without symptoms or with mild symptoms. The unnecessary panic is a shame.

Life should continue while wearing masks and keeping distance and preventing dense gatherings. And whoever feels symptoms should go get tested and be treated, and likewise anyone who came into close contact with him should be tested. And peace upon Israel.

With wishes for calm health, Shtz

.

With God's help, eve of Yom Kippur 5781

In my humble opinion it would have been worthwhile for the yeshivas and their students to adopt what Chief of Staff Aviv Kochavi did, when he ordered a leave freeze for combat soldiers and soldiers in training. The soldiers in God's armies as well—the students of Torah—would do well if in this difficult time they persevered in Torah study even on the festival days (with all the "capsules" and "means of caution" and the merit of diligent Torah study).

For their personal safety too, medical and spiritual, it is preferable that they study in the yeshivas where there is relatively more space and air, rather than return to the crowded cities and neighborhoods and wander the streets idly. I fear that it was not the return to studies that increased the infection, but דווקא the "summer vacation" and its counterpart, bein hazmanim.

Be that as it may, a Torah-level doubt is ruled stringently, and "the more Torah, the more life." The appointed times were given to Israel only so that they might add to their labor in Torah during them.

Best regards, Shtz

Paragraph 1, line 4
… and the merit of diligent Torah study will increase health and blessing for all the Jewish people.

It's not because of the boys, or at least not only because of them. It's because of the stupid decision of the Haredi leadership to keep them studying and to ignore the guidelines and the tests. That's exactly what I wrote above.

Shtz, they already pointed out to you that this claim is a statistical error. It's a shame to keep repeating it again and again.

In any case, in coordination between the yeshiva heads and Major General (res.) Roni Numa, the coronavirus project manager in the Haredi sector, thousands of yeshiva students were tested before returning home. Those who were found positive will spend bein hazmanim in yeshivas that were prepared for that. See the article "Thousands of yeshiva students were tested before returning home," on the Haaretz website.

Once they used to say about one who neglects his Torah study: "Rags shall clothe Numa." Nowadays General Numa makes sure they won't stop studying 🙂

Best regards, Shtz