It’s exactly like morality, which also is not connected to the commands of Jewish law, and yet is binding by virtue of God’s will.

Michi, I don’t understand your approach.
If reason determines that morality precedes the Torah (and certainly Jewish law), shouldn’t we expect the Torah to tell us that explicitly? You can see for yourself that we all get confused about this all the time, and the Torah, as a document that takes itself so seriously, presumably should have taken that into account and laid it out before our eyes, right on the table.
Put first things first. Isn’t that so?

First, it does not precede it but runs parallel to it.
Second, the Torah does indeed say this: “And you shall do what is right and good.”

That’s a very interesting answer, except that it doesn’t fit with what you said a few hours earlier in the comment above. But even if you change your mind again in the next few hours and assume that morality does in fact have priority over the Torah (“and you shall do what is right and good”), you still haven’t solved the problem. I’ll explain:
Here I’m reminded of your consistent position that one can learn almost nothing from the Torah. As you know, I think that’s a wild exaggeration, though in some cases people really do project their own thoughts onto the Torah with no control. I think that’s also the case with your claim about “you shall do what is right and good.”

First of all (and this is the less important claim), the scope of these descriptive terms (good, right, etc.) in the overall text is very limited.
Second, the more fundamental claim: from the Torah’s perspective, when there is a dilemma between religious values (chief among them accepting the Torah and observing the commandments) and human, moral, and universal values, the choice is almost always the former. There is no equivalence (or parallelism, in your language) between the two. And the proof is this: the primary validity of both moral laws and religious laws is the revelation at Mount Sinai reported in the Torah itself—that is, a purely religious principle that carries on its back both universal morality and religious principles. This is a command (a norm) directed only to a particular group, and therefore the correct way to interpret it is as giving priority to the religious sphere over the moral one.

If you like: from the Torah’s point of view, it itself is “right and good” because God gave it, and not that God gave it because it was “right and good.”

I don’t see even the slightest word that I retracted.

For your convenience:

This was your first claim:
“That system too receives its validity from the will/command of the Holy One, blessed be He, except that it precedes the Torah. God also came with complaints against Cain for murder even though he had not yet been commanded about murder. There are norms that exist by virtue of God’s will and precede the Torah.”

And this was the second one, in response to my question about morality’s priority over the Torah:
“
First, it does not precede it but runs parallel to it”

You’re mixing categories that don’t belong together. Rabbi Shimon Shkop is not talking about morality but about property law. Those really did precede Jewish law.

Proper conduct preceded the Torah.

Okay. You still haven’t answered my main question: you claim that from the Torah’s perspective there is equivalence between the moral system and the religious system, but I claim that this clashes with the fact that the Torah treats the believer’s obligation to it as a supreme value. That is, it sets a certain religious value prior to all other values (whether moral values or specific religious values—commandments).
How does that fit with what you said?

At the margins, I’m also interested in your assertion that property law precedes Jewish law. That seems odd to me, since these are “laws.”
And besides, as far as I know, classical halakhic literature does in fact discuss them extensively as “laws” on which one can issue rulings. But as I said, that’s a side question.

I didn’t understand what you mean by the equivalence you’re talking about. These are two parallel systems, both of which originate in God’s will. If that’s what you meant, then yes, that is what I claim.
But the obligation to both of them has equal status. Both are supreme values. What’s the problem? What doesn’t fit here? And with what does it not fit?

As for your side question: Jewish law discusses all laws—those based on reasoning, on agreement, or on a command in the Torah, or on rabbinic enactments. Property law precedes the command not Jewish law.

As for my main question, I already explained: if there really is equivalence between the two systems (both originating in God’s will), why does the Torah place itself and the duty to obey it as a precondition for all other norms, religious and non-religious alike? Don’t you agree with me that when it does that, it itself gives priority to a religious value over all other values (including moral values)? And if that is true, then it doesn’t fit with your claim that there is equivalence.

As for property law, this really does seem very vague to me… Above you answered that property law precedes Jewish law, and in your last answer you claimed that it precedes the command, not Jewish law. So does it precede it or not?

I think my words are clear and lucid, and you are insisting.
The Torah did not set itself up as a condition for all other norms. Moral norms are also in the Torah, just not in Jewish law. Property norms precede the halakhic command, but they are part of Jewish law (a part that is not founded on command. There are other parts like that too).

Well, apparently we’ll remain in dispute over who is being stubborn here.
I’d be glad if other readers who share your position would explain it in different words. I can’t find any logic in it.
As for the second issue, now you’re talking about property “norms” and not about what I asked (laws). If that’s your answer, then it makes more sense (before, it sounded like you were saying that the laws of Jewish law precede Jewish law, which is like saying that the laws of the Knesset precede the laws of the Knesset…).