On Torah from Heaven
Hello Rabbi,
Does the rabbi believe that God gave the Torah?
Does the Rabbi believe that Moses spoke to God?
If so, how is it possible that there are things in the Torah that contradict what we know today, whether it is due to science or simple facts of life?
If not, why does the rabbi attach special importance to the Torah? (The very fact that the rabbi is a religious Jew tells me that the rabbi attaches special importance to the Torah).
לגלות עוד מהאתר הרב מיכאל אברהם
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0 Answers
Israel, peace.
Every contradiction is a contradiction. But it is clear that either there is a solution (this is not science, this is not the correct interpretation of the Torah, or there is really no contradiction) or it is not given by God.
Two things to remember here:
A. Even if Moses spoke to God, that doesn't mean that everything written in the Torah came from him. I suppose I'm not repeating to you that there are verses in the Torah that clearly appear to be later additions.
on. Most of the Torah laws that we have are the work of the sages (interpreters and preachers of the Torah) and not of the Torah itself. Here it is clear that mistakes can occur. —————————————————————————————— Asks: I was raised to believe that everything written in the Torah is true and that the entire Torah was given by God, meaning that God dictated to Moses what to write in the written Torah and that no error can occur in the Torah.
And also, the entire oral Torah was also spoken to Moses our Rabbi, and he transmitted it orally to the people, so that the moment I realize that there may be errors in the text, it undermines my faith in the entire Torah, not just in that specific text.
By the way, I still haven't been able to get a satisfactory answer. What is the Torah? That is, the Torah says that God gave the Torah at Mount Sinai. What does it mean by the Ten Commandments? To all five books of the Torah? To the first four books or to something else?
And what is the written Torah? Is it the entire Bible? If so, how is it possible that according to the tradition that I have received, which I assume is the accepted Orthodox Jewish tradition, that God dictated to Moses the entire written Torah? I have great confusion on the subject and would be grateful if Your Honor would shed some light on the subject.
PS
I can't help but notice that you didn't address all the questions in my question. If the Rabbi chooses not to answer questions of the above type, I would be happy to know so that in the future I can avoid such questions. I ask the questions in good faith and I don't want to cut off the only channel that exists.
I'm currently asking questions of faith.
From where I come, there is no legitimacy for such questions, no legitimacy to reflect on the Torah, and so I fear that I was too direct. —————————————————————————————— Rabbi: Israel Peace
Your secular cousin was raised to believe that there is no God, and the Christian was raised to believe that Jesus walked on water. So what if you were raised?! It's because you were born somewhere and your parents and educators thought a certain way. You are the only one responsible for your thoughts and you are the one who has to shape them. The fact that you were raised one way or another means nothing.
Now think about whether you think it is reasonable that the entire Toshba was given to Moses at Sinai. This is complete nonsense, and there is countless unequivocal evidence against it. I don't understand where this bizarre notion even arose. It is quite clear that if at all, a very small nucleus was given at Sinai (interpretations of words and perhaps principles of the methods of preaching. That's all). The things are explained in the Rambam and in other places, but they are self-evident. The statements that included the generalities and specifics of the Toshba from Sinai were only made about the Toshba, and even about that, the Rabbis and the Rabbis disagreed (whether at Sinai or at the Tent of Meeting). Anything that a veteran student would like to say is a normative statement (meaning that it is appropriate to treat it as if it were given at Sinai) and not a historical one (that it was really given at Sinai). And see the introduction to the Toshba.
Regarding the written Torah, there are some not-so-simple objections to certain (not large) parts of it. I don't know what exactly was given at Sinai and I don't think anyone does. I do believe that something was given there, and that's what's important. The additions added to what was given and now the Torah that has come down to us is the binding Torah. If this is objectionable, what to do?! These are the facts. Think about them, examine them and make decisions.
Don't avoid any questions, and continue to be direct, clear, and concise. This site was created to discuss everything. Not that I necessarily have answers to everything, but freedom of discussion and argument is the lifeblood of intellectual honesty. Without it (when arguments or opinions are dismissed because they are "heretical") it's a shame to have discussions at all.
I will clarify my response to the rest of your questions (I thought this was supposed to be understood from my words). To the best of my understanding, God revealed Himself at Sinai and conveyed something to us. What this included, I do not know, and as mentioned, it is not really important to me.
My relationship to the written and oral Torah is briefly detailed in my remarks here. To my understanding, the written Torah was given there (with the exception of minor additions), but it in itself (without the commentary and midrash) does not say much. How many "laws that the Sadducees acknowledge" do you know? Every human addition is part of the Torah, but we must not forget that it is a human addition, and as such, mistakes can occur in it.
This is very brief. You can find a little more detail in the fifth notebook on the site. Even more detail will be in the trilogy I am currently writing on contemporary Jewish theology.
Every contradiction is a contradiction. But it is clear that either there is a solution (this is not science, this is not the correct interpretation of the Torah, or there is really no contradiction) or it is not given by God.
Two things to remember here:
A. Even if Moses spoke to God, that doesn't mean that everything written in the Torah came from him. I suppose I'm not repeating to you that there are verses in the Torah that clearly appear to be later additions.
on. Most of the Torah laws that we have are the work of the sages (interpreters and preachers of the Torah) and not of the Torah itself. Here it is clear that mistakes can occur. —————————————————————————————— Asks: I was raised to believe that everything written in the Torah is true and that the entire Torah was given by God, meaning that God dictated to Moses what to write in the written Torah and that no error can occur in the Torah.
And also, the entire oral Torah was also spoken to Moses our Rabbi, and he transmitted it orally to the people, so that the moment I realize that there may be errors in the text, it undermines my faith in the entire Torah, not just in that specific text.
By the way, I still haven't been able to get a satisfactory answer. What is the Torah? That is, the Torah says that God gave the Torah at Mount Sinai. What does it mean by the Ten Commandments? To all five books of the Torah? To the first four books or to something else?
And what is the written Torah? Is it the entire Bible? If so, how is it possible that according to the tradition that I have received, which I assume is the accepted Orthodox Jewish tradition, that God dictated to Moses the entire written Torah? I have great confusion on the subject and would be grateful if Your Honor would shed some light on the subject.
PS
I can't help but notice that you didn't address all the questions in my question. If the Rabbi chooses not to answer questions of the above type, I would be happy to know so that in the future I can avoid such questions. I ask the questions in good faith and I don't want to cut off the only channel that exists.
I'm currently asking questions of faith.
From where I come, there is no legitimacy for such questions, no legitimacy to reflect on the Torah, and so I fear that I was too direct. —————————————————————————————— Rabbi: Israel Peace
Your secular cousin was raised to believe that there is no God, and the Christian was raised to believe that Jesus walked on water. So what if you were raised?! It's because you were born somewhere and your parents and educators thought a certain way. You are the only one responsible for your thoughts and you are the one who has to shape them. The fact that you were raised one way or another means nothing.
Now think about whether you think it is reasonable that the entire Toshba was given to Moses at Sinai. This is complete nonsense, and there is countless unequivocal evidence against it. I don't understand where this bizarre notion even arose. It is quite clear that if at all, a very small nucleus was given at Sinai (interpretations of words and perhaps principles of the methods of preaching. That's all). The things are explained in the Rambam and in other places, but they are self-evident. The statements that included the generalities and specifics of the Toshba from Sinai were only made about the Toshba, and even about that, the Rabbis and the Rabbis disagreed (whether at Sinai or at the Tent of Meeting). Anything that a veteran student would like to say is a normative statement (meaning that it is appropriate to treat it as if it were given at Sinai) and not a historical one (that it was really given at Sinai). And see the introduction to the Toshba.
Regarding the written Torah, there are some not-so-simple objections to certain (not large) parts of it. I don't know what exactly was given at Sinai and I don't think anyone does. I do believe that something was given there, and that's what's important. The additions added to what was given and now the Torah that has come down to us is the binding Torah. If this is objectionable, what to do?! These are the facts. Think about them, examine them and make decisions.
Don't avoid any questions, and continue to be direct, clear, and concise. This site was created to discuss everything. Not that I necessarily have answers to everything, but freedom of discussion and argument is the lifeblood of intellectual honesty. Without it (when arguments or opinions are dismissed because they are "heretical") it's a shame to have discussions at all.
I will clarify my response to the rest of your questions (I thought this was supposed to be understood from my words). To the best of my understanding, God revealed Himself at Sinai and conveyed something to us. What this included, I do not know, and as mentioned, it is not really important to me.
My relationship to the written and oral Torah is briefly detailed in my remarks here. To my understanding, the written Torah was given there (with the exception of minor additions), but it in itself (without the commentary and midrash) does not say much. How many "laws that the Sadducees acknowledge" do you know? Every human addition is part of the Torah, but we must not forget that it is a human addition, and as such, mistakes can occur in it.
This is very brief. You can find a little more detail in the fifth notebook on the site. Even more detail will be in the trilogy I am currently writing on contemporary Jewish theology.
לגלות עוד מהאתר הרב מיכאל אברהם
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