Q&A: Two Questions.
Two Questions.
Question
Hello Rabbi,
A. I know that the Rabbi’s view is to separate religion and state, but I haven’t managed to understand from the answers on the site whether, in the Rabbi’s opinion, the term “a Jewish state” has any meaning at all. For example, that most of the state’s citizens would be Jews? Is there any justification for legislation aimed at preserving a Jewish majority in the state, and if so, what is the justification?
B. This question will probably testify to my ignorance in philosophy, but I’ll ask anyway: if the Torah is a fact, does that mean it is impossible to derive values from it?
Answer
A. I’ve written about this more than once. In my opinion it has no meaning whatsoever. There is a state that operates according to Jewish law, and a state that does not. Everything else is a matter for sociology and the cultural sphere. Let everyone define it as they wish. There is no justification for legislation that forces people to do things they do not believe in, unless it prevents demonstrable harm to the public.
B. The Torah is not a fact. I don’t even understand that sentence.
Discussion on Answer
A. In religious legislation there is no demonstrable harm. It is harm in your view. Harm to human life is not disputed, and that is called demonstrable harm. But of course there is no end to this, and no sharp boundary.
B. On that very point, there is a dispute. Many do not see the divine promise as the basis, but rather the historical right (simply from the fact that our forefathers lived here).
A. We are talking about legislation that “forces people to do things they do not believe in,” which according to the Rabbi is justified only if it causes demonstrable harm, and demonstrable harm according to the Rabbi’s definition is harm that everyone agrees about (such as bodily injury). So does everyone agree about it, or are there people “who do not believe in it”? If the harm is “not disputed,” then isn’t that not a case of “forcing people to do things they do not believe in”?
B. “Many see.” What is the Rabbi’s own opinion? If the Rabbi’s view is like those who see the divine promise as the basis of our right to the Land—then does that mean the Rabbi should support religious legislation because there is a justification for legislation and because the argument I raised in the previous comment is correct? If the Rabbi does not see the divine promise as the basis, why not? (After all, the very existence of the divine promise is true, for those who believe in the Torah.)
A. According to your approach, anyone who thinks something is harmful to the state can impose it on all the rest of the residents. I do not agree with that. Beyond that, I do not see value in performing acts in accordance with Jewish law by coercion, at least when the person doing them does not believe in it. The fact that the majority would agree that there is harm is not a criterion that the harm is real (a majority is not a criterion for truth), but rather that over this harm coercion can be imposed.
B. See section A and my previous reply.
“There is no justification for legislation that forces people to do things they do not believe in, unless it prevents demonstrable harm to the public.”
A. What is defined as “demonstrable harm to the public”? That is very subjective: one person will define something as harm and another will not. Could one say that there is justification for legislation on matters of religion because it causes harm to the public, because it is spiritual harm (and seemingly spiritual harm is also harm), or because it harms the national culture, which is also called harm, and therefore there is justification for legislation?
B. Another argument I’ve heard for justifying legislation on matters of religion: after all, our entire right to conquer the Land and settle it is because of the divine promise (Rashi’s very first comment on the Torah). So perhaps there is justification for religious legislation, because without that we have no right to the Land?