Q&A: Proof That There Is No Free Will
Proof That There Is No Free Will
Question
Okay, I wrote that this is a proof that there is no free will, but actually that’s not precise. I want to make a claim that troubles me regarding the free will on which Judaism relies when it argues for a moral and just mechanism of reward and punishment in the World to Come. This claim indirectly shows that there is no free will—or, more precisely, that even if there is free will, it is obviously unjust to punish us for sins.
I saw your recent discussion with Aviv Franco, and you didn’t claim to have a proof that there is free will, only that the claim that there is free will has not been refuted. Now, let’s assume for the sake of my argument that you are 200% right—that the claim of free will has never been refuted. Let’s even say that it was actually proven that there is free will.
As a Jew, I never chose to be born Jewish, and in fact, according to the belief in free will, my very birth depended on my parents’ free choice. How exactly is this free choice if I never chose to participate in this “game” of free will and reward and punishment? Of course, one can invent endless conspiracy theories in an attempt to save Judaism and claim that God asked our souls before they descended into the world (after granting them free will) whether they were interested in “playing” this game of free choice or not. But I’ll go even further and claim more than that—even if that happened, in order for there to be free choice, I need to have the option to choose not to participate in this game anymore. But according to Judaism, there is no such option. It does not exist. There is the option of suicide, but that is considered a grave sin—actually a very grave sin. So how can there be free choice if I have no option to choose not to choose? I’m not even talking about becoming a deterministic machine (which would be problematic in a world of free choices), but about not living at all. Not living at all without dying, without hurting all my relatives who care about me, and without committing suicide and then going on to indescribable torments in Gehinnom. The option simply does not exist. Surprising as it may sound, I would choose that if I had the option. As far as I’m concerned, God doesn’t have to leave any trace of me (provided that my relatives wouldn’t be hurt by it—say, He would turn back time and prevent my birth); as far as I’m concerned, God could annihilate my soul—the option needs to exist. But it doesn’t. Therefore, even if there is free will in day-to-day life, I believe there is no justification whatsoever for God’s punishment in the World to Come. You can even call it giving up, for all I care. I know I won’t withstand the temptations of sin anyway, so why let me choose if I’m not interested in that? This isn’t free choice; it’s absolute coercion, and in my opinion abuse as well.
One last note—my claim is obviously different from saying, “I don’t have the ability to levitate, so there is no free will.” There is no connection between the two. The fact that levitation is impossible (or doing any other supernatural act) does not create a problem for the fact that I am punished for choices in which I did have free choice. The fact that I did not choose to choose, however, does create such a problem and shows that God is no less than abusive toward some of us.
Answer
I can’t understand this strange logic. First of all, who said we have a choice whether to be Jews? My libertarian claim has nothing to do with Judaism. And even if we do have choice, it may be in other matters and not in the question of whether to be Jewish or not. I also have no choice whether to fly or be a bird or a fish. I am what I am, and I have no choice in that. So what? I have choice in other matters. Nobody claims that everything is in our hands. The libertarian claim is that there are things that are in our hands (and some that are not), as opposed to determinists, who claim that nothing is in our hands.
The distinction you drew versus levitation is not relevant. I am punished for carrying on the Sabbath. I am forced to do so because I cannot levitate.
Discussion on Answer
I understood, and I can only repeat myself. So what if you didn’t choose? I also didn’t choose the rules of morality in general. They are imposed on me, and yet if I violate them I will be held accountable.
All this is not connected in any way to Judaism. My claim that there is free choice is not connected to Judaism or to the Torah.
So what if you didn’t choose? It contradicts the justification for punishment because of your free choices. After all, you didn’t choose to choose, and you had no option to stop.
Just to be clear—I understand that this has no connection to Judaism. No connection at all between anything you’ve ever said about free will and Judaism. I’m connecting it to Judaism because it claims that there is free will, and because this creates a problem for me as a Jew.
If you don’t see a problem here, that’s your business .. in any case my problem with it is justified.
There is a difference between “the system of laws that obligates you”—where there is no need for “your choice” in it—it obligates because it obligates, like the rules of the format.
Now there is a separate discussion: the system is binding and I violated the law—can I be punished? If the purpose of punishment is not deterrence, etc., but the doing of justice, then the legitimacy of punishing exists only in cases where the person controlled his actions.
In short, these are two different levels of discussion.
I didn’t completely understand. But my claim is fundamentally different from saying that states have no moral right to punish criminals because they did not choose to be born under those laws. The laws of states are meant to protect the public, and there is therefore a moral obligation to enforce them. God’s commandments, by contrast, do not harm anyone if I do not observe them (for example, not getting up for prayer), and I did not choose to choose. From that it follows that even if I sinned, God has no justification whatsoever for punishing me. The choice is not really free…
First of all, this logic wasn’t meant to be strange—it’s genuinely something I thought about and that bothered me. Maybe my mind is strange. I don’t know. Maybe that’s a compliment too. Doesn’t really matter to me.
I’m afraid you didn’t understand the claim properly.
My claim focuses on the fact that we did not choose to be born Jewish and enter this game of free will at the end of which we receive reward and punishment for our choices. It is obvious to me that we did not choose to be Jews and that not everything is under our control even according to the belief that there is free will.
I connected it to Judaism because I am Jewish and you are a Jewish rabbi who also deals with matters of Judaism.
Now, it’s clear to me that not everything is under our control and not everything is in our hands. I clarified that the mere fact that not everything is in our hands (for example, the inability to levitate) does not pose a problem for the just mechanism of reward and punishment that Judaism speaks about. But there is one thing that is not in our hands, and the fact that it is not in our hands does pose a problem for the mechanism of reward and punishment that is based on free choice. That thing is the inability not to choose, and essentially to “stop” this game of free will for which we will later receive reward and punishment.
God took us and threw us into this world with free will. But the throwing was done without free choice. We were thrown in without being asked. From that it follows that even if I sinned (when I did have free choice), there is no logic in punishing me. Because I did not choose to be thrown in. That is God’s “problem,” and there is no justification based on free choice to punish us.
Maybe this isn’t clear—it really is a unique claim that I have never heard anywhere before, and I thought of it entirely on my own.