A creative midrash

Responsa > Category: Talmudic Study > A creative midrash
EA Asked 7 months ago

When a sermon creates a new halakhah from a verse, to the method that it creates a halakhah Dauriyta (the Ramban), what did the children of Israel do before a midrash issued this halakhah? Just passed on a Dauriyta offense (without awareness)? For example, before they demanded that sage students be respected (a halachah derived from the midrash of "the"), what would they do? They just would not be respected and would be committing a Dauriyta offense? 

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1 Answers
mikyab Staff Answered 7 months ago

Definitely. What is the problem? As long as they did not demand this law he was not known and therefore even the one who went through it was raped.
But even that is not necessary that these are all previous generations. Sometimes the law has been demanded even before, and only the sermon we have is a certain sage.

EA Responded 7 months ago

The problem is that this is really unlikely. Halacha Dauriyta is a direct expectation of Gd from us. So if he expects something from me it is very likely that he will tell me, and will not wait several generations until one sage comes and renews to us what God expects of him.

EA Responded 7 months ago

Expecting from us *

Tirgits Responded 7 months ago

Perhaps an example of the latter option is in the link below. It is implied that Rabbi Akiva demanded and created and did not cite the tradition of Shalach what is the place for Rabbi Tarpon's critique, and it turns out that Rabbi Akiva probably scored a forgotten halakhah.

https://he.m.wikisource.org/wiki/%D7%A1%D7%A4%D7%A8%D7%99_%D7%A2%D7%9C_%D7%91%D7%9E%D7%93%D7%91%D7%A8_%D7%99_%D7%97

Tirgits Responded 7 months ago

(I do not remember where and in what context I saw that this source is brought. Although it is not clear that Rabbi Akiva scored a tradition but only that the tradition does not contradict it, but it is likely that if Rabbi Tarpon remembers what he saw and the tradition was not like Rabbi Akiva then Rabbi Tarpon )

Michi Responded 7 months ago

It is impossible to write everything (see Eruvin XNUMX why the laws of Durban were not written). Beyond that, your question is about the sermon in general. Why God chose to give Torah with Deresh. Do not know his considerations.

Tirgits Responded 7 months ago

On second thought from the source in the above books it seems that they actually assumed that even a creator demanded could not contradict a tradition, i.e. assumed that even in the past they knew the creative sermons or at least remembered their conclusions (at least for the most part). Thus the conditions did not hold the claim “Absolutely. As long as they did not demand, etc., whoever was going through it was raped ”or at least saw it as a significant urgency.

The trumpets are blown from Dauriyta (for generations) in the presence of the crowd and in the war of mitzvah and in certain public sacrifices (in the wilderness XNUMX: XNUMX-XNUMX). From the Torah on Rosh Hashana (every year) and on Yom Kippur on Yuval, the shofar is blown, and in the Temple, trumpets are added to the shofar according to the verse in the Psalms,
In the books of Ibid. Rabbi Akiva demanded a sermon in verses in the aforementioned desert that trumpets lawfully other works and priests with invalid defects. Rabbi Tarpon brings evidence against this that he saw his uncle Higer standing and cheering with trumpets. Rabbi Akiva replies that perhaps his David stuck blasts that are not from the Torah (or at least not from the above-mentioned parsha in which the sermon exists) but on Rosh Hashana or Yom Kippur of Yuval. And Rabbi Tarpon recalls that he did see this, and declares: “The work is not fiction. Bless Abraham our father that Akiva came out of your loins. Tarpon saw and forgot, Akiva demands of himself and agrees to the law. "Everyone who retires from you as a retiree from his life."

Rabbi Tarpon marvels that Rabbi Akiva "demanded of himself and agreed to the law," meaning that Rabbi Akiva did not bring a trusting sermon but a creative demand. In other words, we see that Rabbi Tarpon also came to Deresh Yotzer and claims that it is not true that in the past they did not behave like him.
This means that Rabbi Tarpon assumes, and in this Rabbi Akiva probably agrees with him, that it is not possible (or it is unreasonable) to assume that in an earlier generation they did not know the correct laws in fact. That is, it assumes here that all the conclusions of the creative sermons (i.e. the creative sermons themselves) were known in the past, but have been forgotten, and today whoever demands a creative sermon should assume that he is only reproducing a sermon that was previously known and followed.
Although it is possible that the tradition is not absolute evidence and Rabbi Akiva could indeed excuse (narrowly) that in the past they did not think of this correct sermon until Rabbi Akiva stood up and demanded.

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