Bennett’s Dilemma, or: What Is More Important, Judaism or Mathematics and Science? (Column 28)
With God’s help
Today (Tuesday) it seems we are deep in the silly season. Already on the morning radio news I heard a lively discussion of Naftali Bennett’s statement that, in his view, Jewish studies are more important than the study of science and mathematics. I confess, without shame, that I was not especially surprised when all the little Pavlovians immediately jumped up and complained,[1] but I was surprised that this occupies anyone at all, and even makes headlines. Even insignificant little me was approached for interviews on the subject on major programs on Channel 2 and Reshet Bet. As in many other cases, I would not have bothered with this boring and nebulous topic were it not for the fact that I felt a need to explain why it is just that. Well, at least people are talking about Judaism ("you do not have a monopoly," "there are many ways," etc. etc.), even if they are talking nonsense (as is usually the case), and that too is something. I will only add that I am neither Bennett’s spokesman nor one of his ardent supporters, and yet it is worthwhile to examine the issue even if it should turn out that I am doing him some kind of public-relations service here (do not worry: none of his vehement critics will pay any attention to it).
A Logical Note: On the Dichotomy
A saying is attributed to Rabbi Kook that it is better to fail in baseless love than in baseless hatred. And I, insignificant as I am, have always thought that the best thing is not to fail in either. When you ask a person whether his sister practices the oldest profession in the world or is perhaps a contract killer, he sometimes forgets that there is also the option of saying that he has no sister. So too when one asks you what is more important, Judaism or mathematics, one forces you into a dichotomy that traps you intellectually. When the importance of Jewish studies is compared to that of science studies, one finds oneself compelled to choose a side: Judaism or science, and to determine which is more important. But why do I need to choose a side in such a bizarre question at all? Why must I decide what is more important? Below I will explain why it is very difficult (and perhaps impossible) to choose a side, and why, in this general formulation, this question is not really very important either.
An Interpretive Note: On the Hierarchy
At the beginning of chapter 46 of Genesis, the Torah describes:
And Israel set out, with all that was his, and came to Beersheba; and he offered sacrifices to the God of his father Isaac.
Rashi there cites the Sages’ midrash:
“To the God of his father Isaac” — a person is obligated to honor his father more than to honor his grandfather; therefore it attributes it to Isaac and not to Abraham.
These words were codified in Jewish law by the Rema, Yoreh De’ah sec. 240:24:
Some say that a person is not obligated to honor his paternal grandfather (Maharik, responsum 44). This does not seem correct to me; rather, he is obligated to honor his father more than his grandfather’s honor. Proof of this is found in the midrash on “and he offered sacrifices,” etc. (Genesis 46:1).
The meaning of this is that if a person tells you that thing X is more important to him than thing Y, the interpretation is that both are important to him, but that there is a hierarchy between them. The application to our matter is clear. Bennett is essentially saying that both subjects are important to him, but that in his view there is some hierarchy between them.
A Second Interpretive Note: Multiple Aspects[2]
Rabbi Elchanan Wasserman was a fierce opponent of Zionism. When he was asked how Zionism, led by wicked people, was succeeding in its path, he cited the following saying (Shevuot 18b)[3]:
Rabbi Hiyya bar Abba said in the name of Rabbi Yohanan: Whoever recites Havdalah over wine at the conclusion of the Sabbath will have male children, as it is written: “to distinguish between the sacred and the profane,” and it is written there: “to distinguish between the impure and the pure,” and immediately afterward: “If a woman conceives.” Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi said: children fit to render halakhic rulings, as it is written: “to distinguish and to instruct.”
The Sages promise us that whoever recites havdalah over a cup of wine will have sons, and perhaps also sons fit to render halakhic rulings. As is well known, throughout history there were some very great sages and righteous people who were not blessed with offspring at all, or were not blessed with sons. For example, the Hazon Ish had no children at all. Does this necessarily mean that he did not recite havdalah over a cup, or that this statement is false? Seemingly, it has been empirically refuted.
In the article mentioned above, I explained that this is not necessary. Failure to recite havdalah is one factor leading to the birth of sons, but there are equally other factors involved in the process that can change the result. For example, there may have been another reason that prevented the Holy One, blessed be He, from giving that person children. Perhaps because of the sin of vows he was not granted children (see Shabbat 32b).
Thus a person can say the sentence "A mass X always causes another mass Y located some distance from it to accelerate with acceleration a," but when you check you will discover that this does not really happen. Why? Because there is another source of force in the environment that also affects mass Y and therefore changes the result. Does that mean the sentence I quoted is incorrect? No; it only means that it describes one aspect of the situation, but the situation has several other aspects and angles. Thus one person can say that it is worthwhile to eat chocolate because it is tasty, and another can say that it is not worthwhile to eat chocolate because it is fattening. Who is right? Both. They are simply speaking about different aspects of the topic.
So too, when we are told that Judaism is more important than mathematics, this does not mean that we are dealing with a categorical and sweeping assertion. It may also be interpreted as meaning that there are aspects from which it is more important, and other aspects from which it is less important.
An Analytical Note: The Incommensurability of Values
In moral philosophy (analytic ethics), it is customary to say that values are incommensurable (lacking a common measure), and therefore cannot be compared.
Think about the following question: which is greater, the amount of water in the ocean or the kindness of human beings? This is a meaningless question. One cannot compare things that have no common measure. I can compare a large and small quantity of water, and perhaps also of kindness. But one cannot compare a quantity of water to a level of kindness.
When we come to compare values, for example saving life and the Sabbath, we must measure both on a common scale (measure), and then see which outweighs the other (build a scale of values). But these two values have no common goal and no other shared basis. So how are we to measure them against one another? How can we decide which is more important than which? Returning to Judaism and science or mathematics, I am truly curious to hear how the various sides built their scale of values. How important is Judaism? And how important is mathematics? And on what scale are they both measured in order to make the comparison?
A Relative Measure and an Objective Measure
So how does a person nevertheless make such a determination? If one cannot compare value X to value Y, what then is the meaning of a statement such as "Judaism is more important than mathematics"?
In many cases this is a momentary judgment from a particular angle, one among many others. Rabbi Elchanan Wasserman, in his booklet Divrei Sofrim, cites the midrash The conversation of the servants of the patriarchs is more precious than the Torah of the sons. ("the conversation of the servants of the Patriarchs is dearer than the Torah of their descendants"). The midrash comes to explain why the Torah dwells at length on the story of the deeds of Eliezer, Abraham’s servant, more than on severe and foundational prohibitions on which the whole Torah depends (such as the very brief You shall not murder in the Ten Commandments). The assumption here is that the biblical amount of space devoted to a given passage is an index that expresses its importance. Well then, how are we nevertheless to explain the fact that You shall not murder appears in such terse form, whereas other passages take up many long verses?
It seems to me that the importance of a subject is not determined only by its severity. It is also determined by the need to emphasize it. Thus, although the prohibition of murder is the gravest prohibition, the importance of its appearance in the Torah is not so great, because the prohibition and its gravity are obvious to everyone even without the verse. The need for elaboration derives from a combination of importance and the need to emphasize it. Therefore, even if something is very important, if it is obvious to everyone it will not receive extensive treatment in Scripture. And of course this does not contradict the general claim that there is a proportion between biblical space and importance.
If we return to our subject, when someone says that Judaism is more important in his eyes than mathematics, this does not necessarily mean importance in an absolute sense. It can also express a momentary feeling that at present he senses a greater deficiency among the students in Judaism than in mathematics. The comparison here is relative rather than absolute. He is not comparing the absolute importance of mathematics to the absolute importance of Judaism, but the degree of the students’ deficiency and need in the area of Judaism as against their deficiency and need in mathematics. Even if mathematics were far more important than Judaism, it might still be that the students’ attitude and investment in mathematics seem to him sufficient, or closer to what is required, than the situation in Judaism.[4]
Conclusions
Statements that compare values and their importance are imprecise statements, which are very difficult, and perhaps impossible, to formulate and judge. They are also vague and open to different interpretations, sometimes even opposite ones. It is certainly very difficult to quantify them. In many cases these are momentary and shifting intuitions that arise from different aspects, from a combination of needs, circumstances, and importance, which are very difficult to summarize and weigh. Therefore, when someone says that Judaism is more or less important in his eyes than mathematics, he is expressing a momentary mood or a particular angle of vision, not necessarily a sweeping statement.
A Note on the Criticism
These things are also true with respect to the position of Bennett’s critics, those who think mathematics is more important. That too can stem from a different scale of values, or from different assessments of the current situation and the needs. These sweeping assertions in themselves, so long as there is no specification, are almost meaningless. Empty declarations. Just as Bennett cannot make a sweeping determination of a hierarchy of importance in so complicated an equation, his critics cannot do so either.
To the best of my judgment, these reactions did not even try to do so. They are nothing more than a Pavlovian instinct against Bennett and against Judaism, and nothing more. In my view, there does indeed stand behind them a different scale of values, but not one that differs in hierarchy; rather, it differs at the absolute level. Most of the critics mean to say that they do not want Judaism at all (at least not Bennett’s version of Judaism), not to establish a different hierarchical order between Judaism and mathematics. Only thus do I manage to understand categorical and unambiguous statements on a subject about which, if one can say anything categorical and unambiguous, it is only that it is neither unambiguous nor categorical. Except that then it is not clear to me why they do not simply put that on the table ("you do not have a monopoly," "there are many Judaisms," and the rest of the worn-out and irritating slogans). What do they have against a little honesty?
Another Note on the Criticism: Philosophy and Practice
Since Bennett is not a moral philosopher, nor a mathematician or a great rabbi, I assume the discussion is not about a scale of values in some abstract sense, but about the allocation and distribution of resources (= money). But now the question naturally arises: if one cannot determine a scale of values, how are budgets nevertheless divided among the different values? Again, probably according to the relative measures I described above: more by deficiency than by importance. Everyone agrees that health and security are more important than culture, and yet the budget reflects needs and deficiencies and not necessarily relative importance. Criticisms claiming that culture receives too much or too little funding cannot suffice with pointing to the importance of the field, but must also point to the deficiencies and needs within it.
Accordingly, a relevant criticism ought to address the question whether Bennett devotes enough to mathematics. It seems to me that he certainly does (surely no less than his predecessors), but even if someone thinks not, let him criticize that and not vague general statements about its relation to Judaism. If indeed he devotes enough, then why is it relevant what, in his view, the relation between mathematics and Judaism is? Is this supposed to be a philosophical discussion?
I have already mentioned that in practice Bennett is known as someone who made mathematics a top priority. He even took quite a bit of criticism for that. So why does it bother anyone that he says Judaism is more important? Is it because he does not devote enough to mathematics? This is further evidence that what we have here is not a dispute about priorities but a dispute about the very importance of Judaism and the need for it.
Another Note on the Criticism: Excessive Focus
A comparison made between two items out of a budget basket that contains dozens of items is always demagoguery. Thus, for example, the mantra about settlements versus development towns or versus social budgets selects two items out of dozens and hundreds and for some reason assumes that one comes at the expense of the other. If one wants to speak about a scale of values, one must map the whole thing. Perhaps Judaism is less important than mathematics, and yet it should still receive budgetary reinforcement at the expense of education for democracy? And then perhaps we should reinforce mathematics at the expense of geography. In general, this is not one thing at the expense of another specific thing, but a different distribution of the overall budget. Criticism that focuses on Judaism versus mathematics resembles the infantile criticism of the settlements because of the development towns.
Yet Another Note on the Criticism: Deficiency or Excess
Suppose Bennett prefers Judaism to mathematics, but this preference does not come to expression through harming mathematics, but through giving Judaism additional budgetary reinforcement. Is such a preference problematic? Must every shekel, in some absolute sense, be divided between Judaism and mathematics according to the theoretical ratio of importance, for example 60-40? We have already seen that this also depends on needs and deficiencies. It also depends on the question of how expensive it is to educate in mathematics or in Judaism (science, for example, requires laboratories, whereas Judaism does not. Therefore distributing the budget according to degree of importance is folly, though this too is common in various fashionable critiques).
To sharpen the point, let us consider an example (which I will not go into here in detail). Many criticize Jewish law for a discriminatory attitude toward non-Jews. The question one should ask is whether this preference is carried out by harming the basic rights of non-Jews or by granting extra rights to Jews. After all, every state prefers its citizens to other people, and every family or community prefers its own members to others. So Judaism too prefers Jews to others. What is wrong with that?
The question is whether this preference is expressed in taking away the rights of the other or in granting extra rights to those whom I prefer. Parents devote a fortune to healing and educating their children, and do not devote that same fortune to others. Does that make them immoral? A state devotes a fortune to saving its citizens and helping them in various respects, which it does not do for others. Does that make it immoral? So long as we are not speaking of violating the other’s fundamental rights, but of preferring those close to me, there is nothing morally wrong in that. In the halakhic context as well, one must distinguish between harming the rights of the non-Jew and not granting privileges to the non-Jew. I will leave the applications and implications for another discussion.
If we now return to our matter, the criticism that Bennett prefers Judaism to mathematics sounds completely different if it means that mathematics is being harmed (not receiving enough), or alternatively that Judaism is receiving preferential treatment (but mathematics too is getting enough). But our critics, of course, did not enter into that either.
In the end, it seems to me that what I have said here is enough to show that this is just another bout of ranting, containing little beyond making the desert bloom (= tossing around slogans in the media’s silly season). Well, I already mentioned that this is what in these parts is called a "public debate." Try explaining even one point from all that is said here in a three-minute interview on a news program or in two minutes on television. No wonder this "public discourse" leads people to a policy of ignoring it. By tomorrow nothing at all will remain of it. It is therefore simpler simply to ignore it and not conduct a public debate (but rather make do with a "public debate" in quotation marks). Of this it may be said: the dogs bark and the caravan passes on (ibid., ibid.).
[1] I assume that the intersection between the group complaining today and the group of those who complained about the excessive emphasis he placed on mathematics (where are the humanities?) is not the empty set. Well, they are a bit weak in mathematics.
[2] On this, see my article on ukimtot.
[3] See Aharon Suraski, Or Elchanan, Jerusalem 1998.
[4] The problem of incommensurability also exists in relative comparison, but I will not go into it here.
Discussion
Sh. Tz. Levinger:
With God’s help, 12 Elul 5776
From reading the Bible it appears that the Bible is quite fond of calculations. Whereas the substantive principles of the Torah are conveyed briefly and allusively, the Torah devotes whole chapters to matters of “inventory counting,” censuses, lists of donations to the Tabernacle and execution reports of what was done with them, and lists of the spoils of war and the ways they were distributed.
The meticulous counting expresses the importance of each and every detail. When one seeks justice and integrity, one cannot treat even “small jars” lightly, and all the more so each and every soul is of decisive importance, each being considered “a full world”; and because of His love for them, their Shepherd counts them from time to time.
Let us study the Bible in order to be filled with values, and let us study mathematics in order to become accustomed to precision in each and every detail—a precision that is the guarantee of realizing values in the practical world!
With blessings, Sh. Tz. Levinger
The way to increase the study of both Judaism and mathematics together does not necessarily come through adding more hours and “propaganda.” One should take into account that the more pressure is applied, the more psychological resistance is created in the student’s heart; a little with desire is better than a lot under pressure. Once the student retains a love of learning, he will run toward it on his own initiative.
One of the effective ways is to make the learning interesting and relevant. In Judaism this can be done by posing a value question, leading to a search for what we think about it and what thinkers in Israel and among the nations have said about it; in mathematics, one can present riddles that entice the student to find a solution.
I, in my yeshiva-high-school days, relieved my boredom from studying mathematics by drawing caricatures of the great mathematicians who formulated the theorems. I even composed “a moving ballad about the quadratic equation,” and thus I said:
‘There is no poetry in the world like a mathematical theorem; open your eyes and see, and you will find wonders upon wonders;
wondrous sights such as x multiplied by itself, and if you wish, behold, at once it will be multiplied by a;
and now, my friend, take heart, and look now at the lone x, but do not worry, my dear fellow, for at once it will be multiplied by b;
and now we have reached the peak: behold stands the c, firm it will stand all alone, in all its splendor and majesty1
but how terrible, alas! why, a-x squared, plus b-x and plus c—oh! their sum is zero!
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The rabbi:
And of this it was said: words from the sources, tune traditional folk
M80:
True learning is important for its own sake. Therefore Rabbi Chaim of Volozhin interpreted Torah study for its own sake as—for the sake of the Torah. If a person measures his Torah study in relation to other studies, such as Judaism in relation to mathematics or mathematics in relation to Judaism, that implies that he is not truly at peace with his study, but needs external comparisons to strengthen it. Of this it was said: a person studies Torah only from a place that his heart desires.
Shai:
A. In my humble opinion, a reasonable translation of incommensurable is simply “non-measurability.” I agree that the rabbi’s translation is more precise from a literal standpoint.
B. In order to make measurement possible, is there a need for a common purpose or a common basis? In my opinion, in order to compare, there must be a worldview whose way of ranking values can also apply to the two values before us. The problem of incommensurability occurs when, for example, one tries to rank two worldviews, but each worldview contains within itself its own criterion of evaluation, and therefore there is no criterion for which both worldviews are a “valid input” to the value-giving function. And sorry for slipping into mathematical language.
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The rabbi:
A. Exactly the opposite. Literally, perhaps one can translate it as non-measurability, but in terms of content my translation is certainly the correct one. In any case, this is not a literal translation, since we are dealing with a slang abbreviation (there is a common in the middle). The more precise translation is absence of common measurability, but that is cumbersome.
B. Mathematical language doesn’t bother me, but I still didn’t understand. You need to measure two values on the same scale. To do so, you must define a scale by which each of them is measured, and then see whether it is the same scale. The reasonable scale for measuring a value (what you called here an “evaluation criterion”) is according to its goals (the more important it is for achieving the goal, the more important it will be). But once it has a goal, it is not a value.
Yosef:
The problem is that we live under a primitive socialist regime in which one person has to decide for the whole country which subject is more important and which less so. And what if I think my son should study Beethoven from morning till night? The enormous power placed in the hands of the Minister of Education turns his words from an arbitrary determination binding only on himself into an ultimate determination binding on all the children in the country. It should be possible to establish schools that operate according to the voucher system (this is something Feiglin wants to promote). And each school will decide what it places the emphasis on.
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The rabbi:
Hello Yosef.
As someone who was the first here to conceive of the voucher system (I sent an article to Yedioth Ahronoth 25 years ago through one of my students, who was a journalist there and had become religious. Unfortunately they didn’t publish it. A few years later a similar proposal by Yaron London was published, a well-known leftist, at least politically. I don’t know what his socio-economic views are), I allow myself to say that this is a somewhat simplistic idea. Don’t forget that we are not dealing with a person’s right over himself but over other people (= his children). True, every person has the right to educate his children, but children also have rights. Look now at the complaints of those who have gone secular (and not only they) about the education they received from their parents, which harms them because it did not give them tools for life. They are suing the state over its responsibility in the matter because it did not force the parents to give them those tools.
The power in the hands of the Minister of Education is really not enormous. His influence is fairly limited.
And one more remark. It seems to me that in all countries the structure is fairly similar, including the most capitalist ones. That is because we are talking about providing equal opportunity (for the children), not equal distribution of resources (among the parents). That is a world of difference (cf. Yaron London).
But all this has nothing to do with what I wrote here in the post, of course.
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Arik:
I agree with Yosef about the excessive power of the Minister of Education and the bureaucracy. As a teacher I identify exploitation of this power for Soviet-style indoctrination of children’s minds and the promotion of problematic agendas. I was glad to discover that our rabbi is among the initiators of the voucher system, and it’s a shame it has not been implemented. I doubt whether in other (capitalist) countries there is an education system more paternalistic (and rotten) than ours. And even if that is the case, that is no proof that it is the right thing, only that there is evolutionary pressure on every regime to appropriate more powers to itself and inflate the apparatus (Parkinson’s wonderful law and other nice and correct theories). By the way, if the American Secretary of Education were to say that Christian studies are more important than mathematics, or the French Minister of Education that Islamic studies are more important than physics, would that not provoke controversy?! What does Bennett have to do with it?!
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The rabbi:
As for the excessive power, I agree as well. As for complete privatization, as I wrote, I’ve sobered up. There is no Soviet indoctrination here, if only because you are here protesting it freely and without fear.
I understand that, like me, you also don’t know the education systems in other countries, so each of us will remain with his own doubts.
I liked how you judge everyone else favorably: over there it’s only because of governmental pressure to accumulate power, whereas here it’s because of rotten Sovietism.
And if the American or French Minister of Education were to say such a thing, it would depend on whether they too were in silly-season or not.
Beyond that, one should make a relevant comparison, for example: if the French Minister of Education were to say that French studies and French history are more important than mathematics. Allow me to doubt whether any protest would arise, and with what intensity. Besides, who said that here it’s because of Bennett? And besides, I now say that it really is because of him. If Yossi Sarid or Shulamit Aloni had said this (by the way, they also did) – the reactions would have been completely different.
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Arik:
It seems that the disagreement is connected to the question whether Judaism is a religion (and then it should not be included in the education system) or popular folklore (and then it certainly can be taught just as mythology is taught). I would be glad to know the rabbi’s view on this distinction, and also his opinion in general on the separation of religion and state (you can refer me if you have already written on the subject).
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The rabbi:
I have written about it.
See here:
https://mikyab.net/%d7%9e%d7%90%d7%9e%d7%a8%d7%99%d7%9d/%d7%94%d7%93%d7%a8%d7%9a-%d7%94%d7%a9%d7%9c%d7%99%d7%a9%d7%99%d7%aa-%d7%90%d7%95-%d7%a2%d7%9c-%d7%a6%d7%99%d7%95%d7%a0%d7%95%d7%aa-%d7%93%d7%aa%d7%99%d7%aa-%d7%9c%d7%9c%d7%90-%d7%9e%d7%a7%d7%a3/
And here:
https://mikyab.net/%d7%9b%d7%aa%d7%91%d7%99%d7%9d/%d7%aa%d7%92%d7%95%d7%91%d7%95%d7%aa-%d7%91%d7%a2%d7%99%d7%aa%d7%95%d7%a0%d7%95%d7%aa/%d7%96%d7%94%d7%95%d7%aa-%d7%99%d7%94%d7%95%d7%93%d7%99%d7%aa-%d7%97%d7%99%d7%9c%d7%95%d7%a0%d7%99%d7%aa/
And also here:
https://mikyab.net/%d7%9e%d7%90%d7%9e%d7%a8%d7%99%d7%9d/%d7%a2%d7%9c-%d7%96%d7%94%d7%95%d7%aa-%d7%99%d7%94%d7%95%d7%93%d7%99%d7%aa-%d7%91%d7%96%d7%9e%d7%a0%d7%a0%d7%95-%d7%95%d7%91%d7%9b%d7%9c%d7%9c/