Q&A: Accepting Converts from the Jungle?
Accepting Converts from the Jungle?
Question
Hello and blessings,
Regarding accepting converts from the jungle, does the rule apply that converts are not accepted in the messianic era? And more generally, how did they refuse to accept converts in the days of David and Solomon—what is the source of the authority to refuse?
With blessings, Benjamin
https://rotter.net/forum/scoops1/649739.shtml
Answer
There is no such rule. We do not accept converts whose motives are not because of fear of God, and the assumption is that in the messianic era they will come with ulterior motives (like today, when people want rights). A religious court is supposed to investigate the convert’s motives, and if his motives are not proper, they do not accept him. That is the authority to refuse. It is not authority to refuse, but rather conditions for conversion.
Discussion on Answer
No. The Sages assessed that this would be the situation then (because when our situation is good, the simple assumption is that joining is self-interested). But if a religious court checks and sees a serious convert, of course they would accept him.
What is the meaning of this condescension—”putting obstacles in the way” of someone who comes from the jungle and abandoned the giant shadow of the forest thickets in order to take shelter in the “shade of faith”? Didn’t your ancient forefathers also climb trees in the jungle? :9
With the blessing of “Then shall all the trees of the forest sing for joy,” C. Darwinger
With God’s help, ערב ראש חודש Elul 5780
Perhaps, in the reality of the “end of days,” the nations of the world will find spiritual fulfillment in the not-so-simple task of maintaining a morally ordered life embodied in the “Seven Noahide Commandments.”
Christianity and Islam hated Judaism because they could not tolerate there being a special people meant to be a “kingdom of priests,” and they were not willing to be on the level of a “people of the fields” who learn from and are blessed by the priests. And so a situation was created in which there is no possibility of believing in the Torah of Israel unless you are a Jew who keeps the 613 commandments. No one agreed to be in the status of a “Noahide.”
In the reality of the “end of days,” all the Noahides will find spiritual fulfillment in their role as a “people of the fields” cultivating the settlement of the world in a moral way, while giving honor to the people who delve deeply into the study and observance of the system of the 613 commandments in order to be the guides of all humanity.
The Jewish people will distinguish themselves in their work as the “kingdom of priests,” and the nations of the world will distinguish themselves in their work as the “people of the fields” cultivating the world, and aside from exceptional individuals among them who will be interested in being included in the status of the “priests,” most of them will be satisfied with their role in fostering “the settlement of the world” in accordance with the Noahide commandments and the guidance of God’s priests in the world.
With blessings, Shatz
Shatz
A. Or maybe in the end of days everyone will be Canaanite slaves? Or maybe the nations will be nullified completely after a certain period? Or maybe the Jews will all be elevated to the level of priests and the nations to the level of Jews? It seems to me every speculation I raised here exists in the literature, and it’s all speculation.
B. What is not simple about the 7 Noahide commandments?
With God’s help, 29 Av 5780
To Rationally — greetings,
Fortunate are you that for you the seven Noahide commandments are “something simple.” Unfortunately, not everyone finds this clear and simple, and some think the world is a jungle; they will undergo a “cognitive reversal in the messianic era,” as described by Maimonides at the beginning of chapter 12 of the Laws of Kings:
“And this and that which is said in Isaiah, ‘And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid,’ is a parable and a riddle, meaning that Israel will dwell securely with the wicked of the nations of the world, who are likened to a wolf and a leopard, as it is said: ‘A wolf of the deserts shall spoil them, a leopard watches over their cities’; and all will return to the true religion and neither rob nor destroy, but will eat what is permitted peacefully together with Israel, as it is said: ‘And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.'”
Maimonides did not explain whether their return to the true religion will be expressed only on the level of the “righteous among the nations” who keep the Noahide commandments because God so commanded in the Torah of Moses, or whether they will become full righteous converts keeping all 613 commandments. And apparently the matter will be left to their choice, since Maimonides did not bring as Jewish law the words of the Sages that converts are not accepted in the messianic era.
And at the end of the chapter Maimonides explains:
“And in that time there will be neither famine nor war, neither envy nor competition, for good things will flow in abundance. And the occupation of the entire world will be solely to know God. Therefore Israel will be great sages and know hidden matters, and they will attain knowledge of their Creator according to the capacity of man, as it is said: ‘For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.'”
With the blessing: may it be a year of openness in faith, Shatz
How can one make a general assumption that their motives are not because of fear of God? In the messianic era, would a religious court be exempt from investigating the motives of each convert individually?