Q&A: Ben-Gvir
Ben-Gvir
Question
Are Ben-Gvir’s views worthy of the Knesset?
Answer
This question will be deleted if it is not phrased properly. Make sure there is a concrete discussion here about a specific view, and don’t ask me what is or is not worthy of the Assembly of Israel.
Discussion on Answer
Do you mean the Knesset in Jerusalem? The term “Assembly of Israel” sounds like something mystical.
I’ll assume, as you say, that he admires Goldstein and supports what he did (since he says otherwise). If the law allows him to enter, then he is fit. Are you asking whether in my opinion it is proper to let him in there? No. But neither should supporters of terror from the Joint List be there.
Is there a difference between the actions of the Irgun and Lehi (and a bit of the Haganah) against civilians? They are admired…
Is it not proper for a citizen to vote to bring in the terror supporters from the Joint List, even if we assume that on this issue they faithfully and precisely represent, one for one, the views of all the Palestinian citizens of Israel, who according to Wikipedia are about 20% of the citizens?
Or is there also an additional factual assumption here that views of “support for terror” are held only by a minority that is not really present at all?
A few actions of Lehi:
April 26, 1947: assassination of CID officer Albert Edward Conquest in Haifa.
November 12, 1947: several revenge actions for the murder of Lehi youths in Ra'anana.
January 4, 1948: bombing of the municipal building in Jaffa — the Saraya building; about 14 Arabs were killed in the explosion and many dozens were wounded.
February 29, 1948: bombing of the railway line between Haifa and Cairo, north of Rehovot. 28 British soldiers were killed and 35 wounded.
March 31, 1948: bombing of the railway line between Haifa and Cairo, near Binyamina. 40 civilians, most of them Arabs, were killed, and 60 were wounded.
Be Innocent, if their view supports terror, meaning the destruction of the state, what difference does it make how many people think that way? It harms the state, so they can’t be brought in.
Anyone who kills ordinary civilians without necessity falls into the same category.
So in your opinion, are Lehi and the Irgun worthy of being officially honored, and should the Ministry of Defense fund their commemoration?
That is a different question. Even on your assumption (which I don’t know is correct) that they killed ordinary civilians without justification, they also had positive actions, and at least some of them took no part in such actions. That is what can be commemorated.
“Anyone who kills ordinary civilians without necessity falls into the same category.” —
A meaningless statement.
What counts as “necessity”? Was the bombing of Hiroshima a necessity?
Is someone who died in Dahiya in Beirut in 2006 and had no direct connection to Hezbollah considered just an “ordinary civilian”?
Bombing Gaza after they fire 100 rockets at us a day, with full knowledge that people with no direct connection to it will die — is that a necessity? Are they in the category of “ordinary civilians”?
You’re the king of clichés, Michi!
The main thing is to say that everything has to be defined and made perfectly clear.
King!
“A son honors his father, and a servant his master. If I am a father, where is My honor? And if I am a king, where is My awe?” — and this requires further study.
You can’t claim that in war it is forbidden to kill innocent people. After all, they could put an innocent person in every tank, and then nothing could be done. But outside wartime, killing ordinary civilians for no reason falls into the same category, as Rabbi Michi said.
It’s interesting what the essential difference is between Goldstein and Meir Har-Zion, who avenged his sister’s death on someone who was not the murderer. There are distinctions, but they are not significant. The only significant difference is the public consciousness, which changed over time. If so, is it correct today to relate to Har-Zion as we do to Goldstein?
Is a person who admires Baruch Goldstein (he claims that the fact that he was a doctor is why he admires him), even though he murdered Arabs, fit to serve in the Knesset?