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Q&A: Disadvantaged Populations

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Originally published:
This is an English translation (via GPT-5.4). Read the original Hebrew version.

Disadvantaged Populations

Question

Hello Rabbi!
I notice that when the Rabbi writes about weak/disadvantaged populations,
he also mentions Mizrahim. What makes or defines a group as a weak group?
When you define such a group as weak, does a child born into that group, who sees that there is a stigma on him that he belongs to a weak group, get advanced by that or does it harm his self-image?
Is there a desire in human nature to feel that one belongs to a strong group, and therefore it is important to him to define others as weak?
I am not closing my eyes and thinking everyone is equal. But isn’t it right to reduce the number of weak groups and define what makes them weak, or what makes them weak in your eyes? . 

Answer

Whatever they themselves claim. Mizrahim are a very large population, but quite a few of them themselves claim that they have been disadvantaged or that they are weak.

Discussion on Answer

Doron (2021-06-01)

Michi, I’ve never done this before, but here goes…
I invite a column on Mizrahim/Mizrahi identity in Israel (discrimination, cultural gaps, discourse, and whatever you like).
I guarantee you that a juicy and provocative column on the subject will yield you a high “return.”

Michi (2021-06-01)

Doron, it seems that in your opinion I choose topics and writing style based on ratings. You should go over the list of my columns, examine their length and content, and reconsider your position on this issue. This time I was offended (not really).

Doron (2021-06-01)

Forgive me, Your Honor, even though you weren’t offended…
First of all, I simply have ready-made responses sitting on the shelf on this subject, so I wanted to make use of you for the matter so they wouldn’t go to waste… Well, that’s not really true either.
But there is also a substantive side here, not just a ratings side, regarding the question I raised. For example, how authentic is the Mizrahi identity in whose name people speak? What is its price and what is its “benefit”? It seems to me this really is a topic that could interest you.

Michi (2021-06-01)

There may be interesting aspects to the subject (though not very much). I was only commenting on your remark about the “return.”

Linksetter (2021-06-01)

מהי גזענות? (טור 10)

The Last Decisor (2021-06-01)

A weak population is a distorted concept that people use without understanding.
The scale in the social hierarchy is not strong-weak but ruler-ruled. Every person is somewhere on that scale in certain areas.
There are populations that statistically have a much higher percentage on the ruled side than on the ruling side, compared to others.

Noam (2021-06-01)

I’ll respond to your answer.
Quote: “Whatever they themselves claim” “quite a few of them claim” — arguments of a first-year college student {I assume you didn’t conduct a survey, check data, age ranges, and additional variables}. Too bad; you’re a serious person who relates to data and doesn’t speak from feelings, conjectures, or emotions.
The younger generation doesn’t feel that way. Their parents too would argue that it’s a matter of the past. And some of them would argue that it continues. 40% of the children in Israel today are children of inter-ethnic marriages. How would you define them? You’re invited to include this variable in the research you still haven’t done.
“Whatever they themselves claim,” as you put it, that’s mainly you and Dr. Avishai Ben Haim and a few other loud Mizrahim whom nobody chose as their representatives.
At a time when Israeli society is polarized, this element can be lowered in the polarization.
You can write about the social periphery, which includes people from all communities, and not use sweeping language about a large group in Israeli society {about 50%}.
And maybe one more point: for some reason you didn’t answer my question (perhaps you intentionally ignored it. You usually know how to answer “I don’t know”) — is there a desire in human nature to feel that one is above another group in order to elevate oneself? {Maybe it’s in your subconscious}. Go to those traits that are among the most beautiful, and not to divisive and condescending views.
By the way, I asked my son whether he feels weak or disadvantaged. He didn’t understand which “east” I meant — the Middle East or Eastern Europe.

Michi (2021-06-02)

Noam,
The condescending nonsense that fills your last message is the product of a common pseudo-academic failure. When a person makes a claim (especially if it is reasonable and called for), if you have nothing to answer him, the recommended advice is to bring up exceptions and outliers, point out that this is a generalization (which of course is true, like every social claim), and note that not the entire group to which the claim refers feels that way. Those who are extra punctilious bring an example from their son, who doesn’t know whether we’re talking about the Middle East, the Far East, or east from sunrise to sunset. Now I am truly convinced.
But it isn’t worth ending with just that, because the punch line is still missing. The recommended advice is, at the final stage, to ask: did you conduct a survey? Then you can return home smug and self-satisfied. You won by knockout.
So you will surely be surprised, but my answer is yes. I conducted a survey. And while we’re at it, did you conduct one? Ah, I forgot your son. Your words are based on a scientific survey conducted on a representative sample of the population of size one individual (=1). Or is it only I who must base myself on surveys and not you?!
And here is a description of the survey I conducted (I’ll allow myself not to dwell on the methodological assumptions and the description of its execution): for some reason, in Israel there are parties (today mainly one) of Mizrahim who feel excluded and discriminated against and want to restore the crown to its former glory, but by that same “some reason,” there are no parties in Israel at all that represent such Ashkenazim (although the Labor Party and Meretz are starting to look that way). So yes, in about ten rounds in which I repeated this survey again and again, a fairly similar answer was obtained (admit that this is already completely scientific): there are about seven or eight Knesset seats’ worth in the public who feel that way (in the past it also reached seventeen), and in my estimation there are many others who feel that way and do not vote for Shas for other reasons. And no, the last addition (about those who don’t vote for Shas) is not based on a survey, but on a number of individuals whom I personally know (by the way, that sample size is much larger than your sample), and of course also on two more dubious and unscientific tools: logic and familiarity with reality.
I didn’t answer a foolish question that tries to divert the discussion into psychologistic directions. The discussion that can be conducted is whether such a feeling exists among people or not, and not the question of what psychological factor causes me to think that such a feeling exists. That is a question for another discussion that I do not intend to enter into. By the way, I’ll add one more reading-comprehension tip (all in all I would expect a proud and not-excluded Mizrahi like you to display minimal reading comprehension of what he himself wrote): that wasn’t even a question. It was a cynical and ugly remark with a question mark at the end. Therefore I saw nothing here to answer. So let my failing be laid at my door.
I hope that now everything has been answered to your satisfaction.

Noam (2021-06-02)

Thank you very much for your response. I am very glad to read your disagreement with my words. People who disagree with me cause me to learn and become wiser, and for that I thank you.
Your claim: you bring exceptions and outliers.
My claim: those exceptions are increasing.
The proof: from your own words! The number of the deprived and self-victimized went down from 17 seats to 8. {The assumption that everyone who votes for Shas feels deprived is a claim that can also be disputed}.
I assume your personal experience regarding Mizrahim comes from places where you lived and live, Yeruham and Lod, where there is a Mizrahi population that claims discrimination. The number of those who claim discrimination is small. Therefore it is not correct to write “the Mizrahim.”
In conclusion: in one thing you certainly erred. I am not Mizrahi and I am not proud. (‘I would expect a proud Mizrahi’) my parents’ origin is in the south of the Land of Israel and not the east. {If you reply to this comment of mine and want to needle me, please write ‘modest southerner’…}
So let my failing be laid at my door.
With great respect, Noam.

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