Q&A: Ketubot 64
Ketubot 64
Question
Hello Rabbi,
The Talmud on page 64 asks in its initial assumption why a betrothed woman can demand marital relations, since she is not commanded in procreation, (and since she is not married, her husband has not obligated himself to her in conjugal duties).
So the Talmud answers that she has a claim: “I need a staff for my hand and a hoe for burial,”
meaning: that she needs someone to take care of her in her old age and see to her burial.
And the question is: does she really have the right to bring a child into the world for such a selfish reason?!
She wants someone to take care of her???
Let her hire someone!
And even more: because of this she can force her husband to bring a child into the world?!
But the main question is: what fairness is there in bringing a child for such a selfish reason?!
It sounds as though for the Talmud this is a sufficient reason to bring a child into the world.
Maybe that woman should restrain herself and not bring a child who will also bring a child so that there will be someone to bury him, and so on.
Isn’t it a shame to produce someone who will produce someone else just in order to survive the private life of the present moment?!
Actually, this connects for me to secular people who have children so they won’t be lonely… and so they won’t be bored…
So in such a world of values, maybe one of those people should hold back, remain lonely, and turn out the light behind him, and let’s finish this unnecessary cycle?!
Answer
That is not the reason for bringing a child into the world. The reason is procreation and “inhabit the world,” which are a value and a commandment. But here the issue is not the reason for having a child, but whether the woman has the right to demand this from her husband. That is really not the same thing. For example, I have the commandment of procreation. Am I allowed to demand of some woman on the street that she have sexual relations with me because I have a commandment? Of course not. She owes me nothing. So too with the betrothed woman who makes a claim against her husband: the husband ostensibly does not owe her this, since the commandment is incumbent on him. But it is her right to demand it because of his obligations to care for her.
Beyond that, you are assuming that bringing children into the world is bad for them, and then you ask how my interest overrides the harm to them. But there is nothing bad about it at all, so I do not see why self-interest is an invalid consideration.
Discussion on Answer
Indeed. And that is what I answered.
As for the question about understanding the Talmud, yes, obviously you answered…
But not the big philosophical question behind it, which comes up even without the Talmud, since in the end it’s a common case.
I answered that too
With God’s help, 18 Elul 5782
Whereas the elders in the Book of Ruth perceive Ruth’s marriage as a foundational national event, blessing her: “May the Lord make the woman who is coming into your house like Rachel and Leah, who together built the house of Israel…” — women are allowed to speak about a natural and healthy human feeling, as they bless Naomi: “Blessed be the Lord, who has not left you this day without a redeemer; and may his name be renowned in Israel. And he shall renew your life and sustain your old age…”.
Apparently, the natural need for a son who will continue the family name “after one’s hundred and twenty years” and spare his parents an old age of childless loneliness, instead surrounding them with love and honor — is a legitimate human need. And rightly so. Parents give their child endless love in his childhood, and he repays them in their old age. What’s unclear about that?
With blessings, Shemaryahu Hillel Oxytocynski
I think he’s asking whether it isn’t a somewhat arbitrary consideration for having children.
And that you need a more reasonable consideration in order to “create” someone.
Also, after all, that child will experience suffering in his life, and the question arises whether it is good for a person, etc., or morally right to bring someone into a world that contains suffering.