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Q&A: Apologetics

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Apologetics

Question

What do you think about
Presuppositionalism – presuppositional apologetics?
I’m not familiar with rabbis or Jewish philosophers who hold such a view, at least not today, and of course you also don’t hold such a view, but I’d be glad to hear your opinion.
 
On another topic: I looked at one of the questions and it seemed that a debate was being organized (or is in the works).
Is there any chance we’ll get to watch your debate with the people from “The Atheist Line”?
 
Thanks for the response, have a good week.

Answer

I have no idea what that is. If you have a question, please go ahead and write it.
I have no idea. They haven’t approached me.

Discussion on Answer

Y (2023-07-09)

If you have no idea what it is, I’m not sure exactly how to phrase the question. It’s basically a view (mainly Christian) that claims knowledge is possible only if God exists. TAG. Like the moral argument, only regarding knowledge and other attributes. It’s a pretty complicated type of argument, so without minimal familiarity, it would just turn into me giving a long-winded explanation. If you want, you’re welcome to read: https://www.gotquestions.org/presuppositional-apologetics.html. It’s an approach mainly held by Christians, though not only by them; it’s just most common among them.

As for the debate, you wrote in response to a question that you have no problem with it if it’s done in a serious format and so on (category: Faith, question title: Debate against “The Atheist Line”). When I checked again just now, you had replied something about feeling they use manipulations or something along those lines. It’s not so clear—did it end up happening? And do you see any effectiveness in it? They really are very famous, and I personally know a few teenagers who became atheists through exposure to their channel, but maybe a debate just isn’t a serious setting for this kind of discussion. I don’t know—what do you think?

Niv (2023-07-09)

Sorry for butting in:
As a former atheist whose friends are mostly on the “atheist” side, The Atheist Line, through its arguments, has not made anyone an atheist unless they already had “doubts” in their faith to begin with. I say this from knowledge and personal acquaintance with dozens (I’m not exaggerating) of people who left religion.
Modern atheists remind me of “biblical criticism” — they have no proof for any of their claims (and they come in the name of science and rationality), but that doesn’t stop them from writing books, receiving funding, spreading their views, all in the name of “scientific research” (if someone really wants a laugh, let him take any article from “Beit Mikra,” regardless of the issue or the researcher).
Modern atheism (aside from its classical 19th-century form) has become a kind of bizarre religious dogma, more than Catholicism. In fact, they are not atheists but deniers of and haters of the Abrahamic religions. God’s absence from their world is not a philosophical or rational matter, but a childish anti-religious emotion (many of them are “formerly religious,” and the rest follow from that…) and a disgust toward religions as such.
It seems to me that Rabbi Michi has more important things.
And by the way, if you want to see an interesting discussion between an atheist and a rabbi, search YouTube for a discussion between Rabbi Jonathan Sacks of blessed memory and Richard Dawkins (in English).

Y (2023-07-09)

The Atheist Line absolutely has turned people into atheists; the doubts don’t change anything. Doubts may be an opening to heresy, but they aren’t heresy in themselves. That’s nonsense.
In any case, I’m not asking about the debate because I feel my own position is “in danger”; their arguments are not impressive. I asked because they’re famous and influential with a lot of people, especially teenagers, and I think such a debate could do some good.

As for your recommendation, I’ve watched many debates and discussions; it’s great content and I enjoy it, but I don’t know if it’s worth spending time watching Dawkins talk about philosophy. It gives me a headache.

Alon (2023-07-09)

To the commenter “Y”,

I didn’t understand what Michi’s arguments would add, either for you or for the atheists.

The topics are well known —
the cosmological argument, and the argument from complexity and the laws of nature (what Michi calls the physico-theological argument), have already been chewed over there at some point in hundreds of discussions between believers and them.

I don’t see the point of Michi also going there and talking with them.
In the end, belief in God is a matter of consciousness and inwardness. And everyone has the free choice to do what they want.

Can you tell me what, in your opinion, Michi could add for them on the subject of the philosophical arguments?

Alon (2023-07-10)

Here’s the latest one from The Atheist Line.

The first caller tried to convince them that there is a creator of nature.
Can one of Michi’s students say what his knockout argument would be?
Maybe one of you should go on the air and try to convince them?

A (2023-07-10)

To generalize about all atheists and claim that they aren’t really atheists and are driven by hatred of religions is simply wrong, and it sounds like Evangelical or Haredi propaganda. Good thing you didn’t also write that they really believe but want to live a life of abandon, or that Satan is misleading them.
Many atheists I know simply don’t believe and don’t spend too much time dealing with religions. There were some who told me they would like to believe but just can’t. Some of them also had strong arguments.
I didn’t agree, but they certainly weren’t stupid people reciting slogans like someone here wrote.
They are intelligent and educated people.

It reminds me of the claims of many secular people that religious people are ignorant and brainless, that they were brainwashed, and that they believe because it’s convenient for them, because life is harder without faith. Here too and there too, that is far from describing reality, and everyone who believes in their own way tries to diminish the other side like this in order to justify themselves and explain to themselves how there can be believing / non-believing people.

Y (2023-07-10)

^^^Alon, it wouldn’t add anything for me personally. I wrote that already—it’s not that it would help me personally, but a debate would be effective because they’re famous and influential. Especially on young people. That’s the point.

Alon (2023-07-11)

I’m still waiting for even one student of Michael Abraham to get up,
a student who knows the intellectual refinements of the argument for God (at least the philosophical one) that belong to Michi,
and go on The Atheist Line this Sunday.

One who has eagerly swallowed hundreds of articles.
One who has drunk thirstily from what is said in the books.
One who has watched many hundreds of YouTube broadcasts where they talk.
One who has listened to an enormous number of lectures.

The atheists on “The Atheist Line” give enough time—if necessary, even 45 minutes—to go on the line and lay out the whole case.

Isn’t there even one student of Michi here who can feel confident enough to do it?

Y (2023-07-13)

It’s not a matter of confidence or not. If they want, let them come to a neutral and normal debate that isn’t run by them in that way. Your line of thinking is childish.

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