Q&A: A Few Questions About the Third Chapter in the Book – God Plays Dice
A Few Questions About the Third Chapter in the Book – God Plays Dice
Question
Hello Rabbi,
I started reading your books (The Science of Freedom, God Plays Dice)
and I got to the third chapter, where you discuss various atheist claims about the probability of the formation of the world and the universe by some entity, or just by chance.
- One of the claims is: what is the probability that we live on exactly such a planet, with all the laws and the environment needed for us to grow in it? So of course the atheists' answer is that because the place itself is like that (suited for the growth of life), life developed there and we are here. I read that you did not accept this claim and tried to give examples of why the claim does not fit, but I didn’t understand your examples. Seemingly, no matter what the probability of such a thing happening is, only if there happened to be a world fit for life would life grow there.
- In addition, you explain that once we talk about the laws of nature or the constants, we are talking about God, because where did the laws come from such that they are exactly this way, enabling the process (evolution) or life? So either they were formed by chance or God created them. You showed that the probability that they were formed by chance is low, therefore God created them. Why? Because laws are not different from planet to planet, and then there is a number of planets giving a probability that one planet would come out with those laws. But those laws do change. Maybe the force acting on the atomic nucleus doesn’t change, but that also doesn’t exactly affect life. For example, the distance from the sun, which is very precise, seemingly does change from galaxy to galaxy. The same goes for the atmosphere and the gravity of the planet itself, etc. So seemingly this argument does not fit here.
- And regarding plausibility/probability, I learned from my rabbi (I studied at the Jerusalem College of Technology, also with your general outlook but a bit differently) that it’s a bit hard to talk about probability. Probability with things we know is simple, because you can see what the chance is that one thing will happen out of the larger sample space. But probability regarding the creation of human beings or the creation of things about which we have no experience is meaningless. You can’t say that something is more or less probable when we don’t know how to create it or what the sample space is.
- Finally, I’d appreciate it if you could direct me to one of your books or articles that talks about rationality in Judaism and how to deal with most of the difficulties about Judaism. (Suppose I accept the claims in God Plays Dice—how do you connect such an entity to Judaism, and how do you make Judaism, which is full of unequivocal errors, legitimate today?) And how does one live a religious lifestyle in today’s reality?
Thank you very much for reading and for the answers!
Answer
I explained all these things.
* I didn’t understand what isn’t clear. See the execution example (the firing squad that all missed and the condemned man survived). Is there nothing astonishing about that? According to your approach, even if he survived it would not arouse wonder, because if he hadn’t survived he wouldn’t be here to wonder.
* The same system of laws prevails on all planets. It is a special system, because it allows biology and chemistry, and therefore also life. In another system there would be no life even if there were a sun and its distance from some planet were like ours.
* One can definitely talk about plausibility. One cannot talk about probability. A sample space is needed for probability calculations, not for assessing plausibility. If you think that the spontaneous emergence of life is something plausible, then we disagree.
* See the fifth notebook on my site. The fact that there are errors is not really important in my opinion. These things will be laid out more fully in the trilogy that is currently being edited.
All the best,
Discussion on Answer
1. You didn’t understand yourself, and now you’re repeating the same thing again? Now I don’t understand. Or maybe you were just explaining my answer here.
2. Indeed. And again, the question is how such a galaxy that allows life came to be (or really, laws of nature that allow it). The laws of nature do not vary between planets. Certainly not in any essential way.
3. Plausibility is a line of reasoning that is not measurable. That is indeed correct. After all, even if we assume that the laws of nature depend on some constant, and its precise value is essential for the creation of life, the probability of getting such an exact value depends on a distribution that you of course do not know. Therefore you talk about plausibility, not probability. It is not plausible that one would get exactly such a precise value of the constant. And if there is a distribution that allows this, it is not plausible that the mechanism that created such a distribution came about on its own by chance.
4. Regarding the notebooks, look under “Miscellaneous.” In the first volume of the trilogy there will be an updated and corrected version.
5. I don’t know exactly. It is now being edited, and I hope within less than a year.
1. Yes, I was trying to explain what I understand and just wanted you to confirm whether that’s the line of thought.
2. In my opinion the change between planets is indeed essential; could you direct me to suitable sources?
3. If plausibility is just a thought, what place does it have here? Just common sense? That changes from person to person. Is it plausible that such a precise constant would come out? I don’t know—I don’t think my opinion here can move us toward the truth about why that precise constant remained what it is.
4. Thank you very much.
5. Same here, thank you.
2. Sources for what: for the fact that all planets have the same system of physical laws?
3. Wherever there is no calculation, you need plausibility considerations. When a person answers your question about the time and you wonder whether he is lying to you or not, you have no calculation. But plausibility says that he is not lying. Likewise, the emergence of a precise constant when you do not know the distribution is not a probabilistic calculation (unless in the absence of information you assume a uniform distribution). Your opinion is the only thing that will move you forward.
2. Yes, is that agreed upon? In my opinion the small changes between planets are very significant, and they are what affect the creation of man דווקא here.
3. If it is just an opinion, then there is no argument here at all. You hold this way and I hold that way; there’s nowhere to go in terms of arguments. The plausibility that a person tells the time correctly is high because from my experience I have met many people who told me the time and were right (it matched many things for me afterward), so seemingly I assume that the next person will also tell the truth. But with the plausibility of a precise constant, I have no experience with such things (I have never tried to create such a coefficient in a world of our own), so I have no intuitive sense of plausibility about it.
2. I think there is some fundamental misunderstanding on your part of the argument. Of course that is agreed upon. There are changes between planets, but not in the laws of nature—rather in the data (distances from the sun, radius, mass, temperature, ground structure, etc.). The values of the constants do not change. Therefore this has no importance for our discussion, since these laws of nature, and only they, allow biology (even if it arises only on one of the planets—ours). Under different laws of physics there would be no biology, and then no living beings could have formed anywhere. My question is why the laws of physics are these specifically and not others. This has nothing to do with planets and the differences that do or do not exist between them.
3. It is not just an opinion. Plausibility also has a logic to it, even if it cannot be calculated. The principle of causality or induction are matters of plausibility, and they have no observational source (as David Hume showed), and still they are the foundation of rational thought. The fact that you met various people who told you the correct time means nothing, unless you adopt the principle of induction and generalize from the people you met to other people. You have no probabilistic calculation to ground that, and yet you accept it because it is plausible.
2. I understand, so you are asking what the chance is that there would be such laws that give any possibility of life in reality at all? If so, then how can one even talk about plausibility here? This is a one-time event that happened—how can I, as a human being, say whether this thing is plausible or not? It seems more logical to me to say that the universe simply came into being with some laws (one could wonder whether there even had to be laws at all), and if because of them we live then here we are to wonder about it, and if not then not (back to the previous argument). I don’t understand how this is an argument for God.
3. Okay, so in the example I gave, you actually justified the plausibility by induction or some other tool. The question is why mere assumptions, about which we have neither induction nor causality, are plausible.
Think, out of all the possible systems of laws on earth, what is the plausibility that one system of laws would come into being, and that it would be exactly the special one that allows life. Therefore it is plausible to infer that there is a guiding hand that created them.
All right, I’ve completely exhausted this. All the best.
Y., there is one point the Rabbi did not clarify, namely that induction is not the justification for accepting plausibility; on the contrary, there is no reason at all to rely on induction except for its plausibility, which we know through our intuition. So if you do not want to accept the plausibility of things on the basis of our reasoning—then don’t rely on induction either (and don’t fly in an airplane, for example. Gravity is known only on the basis of induction).
Thank you very much for the quick reply,
1. Actually, after I thought about it a bit, suddenly I can’t understand myself. But basically, the question of why we are here has an answer: because there are good conditions here that support life. But afterward you can ask whether it is plausible that there would be good conditions here in a blind way. Same thing with a firing squad. The wonder is not that he survived (that the bullets didn’t hit him); the question is why the bullets didn’t hit him. Still, the original question (what is the probability that we would end up on exactly such a planet) is meaningless; it will always be 100% because we live here. The question is how such a world developed.
2. Seemingly, if you created a galaxy exactly like ours, life would form there. You can’t know whether the life formed here because of God or because there are different laws on this planet. (If there were a sun at a distance similar to ours on another planet, and if all the same conditions we have here were there too, like atmosphere etc., then life would form there.) Seemingly what I’m saying is that you’d have to go through all those constants and see that they really do not vary from planet to planet.
3. So plausibility is just a feeling and not something measurable? As opposed to probability.
4. Where do I find the notebooks? What is it called? How can I stay updated on when the trilogy comes out?
Again, thank you very much.