Q&A: Are wicked people and fools the same thing?
Are wicked people and fools the same thing?
Question
At the regional school where my three daughters study, they decided [by law?] that if 70% are vaccinated, classes will take place, and if not, they won’t.
My stupid neighbors, many of whom aren’t vaccinated, are a kind of low socioeconomic group [with lots of pride and stupidity]. Bottom line, we’re in trouble.
My wife says this isn’t just, because if someone has sense and gets vaccinated, why should he suffer? Only the unvaccinated should be punished.
I think: woe to the wicked person, and woe to his neighbor. Whoever lives next to wicked people loses out in reality.
My wife says it’s true that there is “woe to the wicked person and woe to his neighbor.” But here these are fools, not wicked people. And about that the Sages didn’t say, “woe to the fool and woe to his neighbor.”
I argue that this is an a fortiori inference: if woe to the neighbor of the wicked person, then all the more so woe to the neighbor of the fool, because as is well known, the Torah spoke of four sons: one wise, one wicked, one simple…
Why is the wise one next to the wicked one? [After all, woe to the wicked person and woe to his neighbor.] Why not next to the simple one?
Apparently it’s obvious that it’s preferable to be the neighbor of the wicked person [despite “woe to the wicked person”] than the neighbor of the fool…
Who is right?
Answer
I don’t know. Better not to be the neighbor of either of them. Are you asking whether I would have arranged it differently? Certainly. I would have forbidden the unvaccinated from showing up for classes.
Discussion on Answer
Maybe that’s fine.
Their parents are stupid [fact: they don’t vaccinate], better that they drop a grade than keep dragging the level down all the time…
After all, we’re believers, children of believers, in heredity…
There are many other kinds of stupidity. It’s quite possible that in my eyes you too are exceptionally stupid in certain areas.
Why do people keep saying “vaccinated”? They aren’t immunized at all; the virus also multiplies in those who injected themselves with the bat-viral substance.
And on the other hand, if they are “vaccinated,” then why are they afraid?
Answer: fools.
I don’t see how it can be morally justified to vaccinate children for a disease that endangers them in no way whatsoever. The spike protein is a toxin and only about 25% of it remains in the injection area. The rest spreads throughout the body and apparently is also capable of crossing the blood-brain barrier. In the words of Dr. Alroy-Preis: “It troubles me that we are going to mass vaccination when we do not have sufficient safety data. The younger the ages we went down to, the more cases of inflammation of the heart muscle we saw.”
There is some Canadian doctor who checked D-dimer in vaccinated people and found that in 62% of them there were values indicating blood clots, as the theory predicts. Maybe his test is anecdotal. But has anyone else checked this? Not here. Which teaches you that safety is of no interest.
As for the person who wrote the question — I prefer classic fools to poetic fools (like you).
As for Rabbi Abraham — in general I wouldn’t ask him any question about corona because he doesn’t understand it at all. For a year and a half he’s been parroting the Ministry of Health without any criticism. Even what one could ask him on the ethical plane — he’s lost that too.
Let’s see him answer you why children who don’t get sick and barely infect others need to be vaccinated.
And why there needs to be any distinction at all between vaccinated and unvaccinated when according to all the studies (both statistics-based and those based on measuring viral load via PCR) there is no difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated in terms of contagion.
And where, within all these restrictions on children, is there any value given to education and learning, to their social situation and their mental health.
Amazing that on a site of wise people there are corona deniers of every shade and kind. This usually belongs to the lowest decile culturally and intellectually…
Or maybe they just have to vomit out their stupidity? “Even as he walks along the way, his sense is lacking, and he says to everyone that he is a fool”…
1,000 children were hospitalized in Israel due to corona. (According to the estimates, 20 percent of them had no underlying illnesses.) The risk of myocarditis (mild, and in a minority of cases severe) following the vaccine is 1 in 50,000.
Let’s assume that in Israel a million children were infected (4 times the official confirmed number). With simple arithmetic one can say that the risk from the virus to children without underlying illness is 10 times greater than the risk from the vaccine to such children. (And that’s without taking into account long COVID and just the plain unpleasantness of being sick even if not hospitalized.)
The reason to vaccinate children is because it protects them from a disease that, while rare, is possible. A parent of a child with an underlying illness who does not vaccinate him — in my opinion sins against him.
The reason to distinguish between vaccinated people and those who are not:
Viral load is correlated with severity of illness. It’s true that if we take a vaccinated sick person and an unvaccinated sick person in the same condition, we will likely find the same level in both (and likewise if we take two asymptomatic people).
Therefore, since the vaccine protects against illness — it also lowers viral load. The immune system clears the virus more efficiently in vaccinated people — that is the mechanism of action of the vaccine. That is the scientific logic behind it.
Therefore the working assumption is that the vaccine, which protects against illness at every age, helps prevent infection. Because more illness means more contagiousness.
And that is the justified reason why the Ministry of Health and doctors, most of whom are good and honest people, recommend vaccination, and preventing those who are not vaccinated from creating additional risk to their surroundings.
In my opinion people who do not vaccinate are not necessarily stupid, but they definitely suspect the trustworthy ones (just because they are “the establishment”) and do not read reality correctly.
Avishai, if we assume that in the next shipment of the vaccine hostile agents come and replace the genetic code of the vaccine with code that causes cancer,
come analyze that situation.
Avishai, nothing you wrote is correct.
1. Regarding the number of children, I suggest you use the corona dashboard. Just Google it and you’ll get there. Look at “breakdown of various measures by age and sex” and choose the option of severe patients since the start of corona.
By the way, regarding deaths it doesn’t say there, but overall in Israel 7 children died since the start of corona, who had severe underlying illnesses and died with corona, not from corona.
2. Regarding myocarditis, it’s not one in 50,000 but one in 5,000, and that too is after underreporting. Apparently the statistics are even worse. That’s what’s strange about you corona exaggerators. You exaggerate corona and minimize the damages of the vaccine and the restrictions.
3. Children do not get sick from corona. Long COVID (for the few for whom it does happen) is a matter of weeks or months. Not prolonged damage. Therefore a parent who does not vaccinate a child without underlying illnesses, in my opinion saves him.
4. No difference has been found (in several cases, including the CDC one) in the viral load of vaccinated and unvaccinated people — as of the delta strain. Regarding those vaccinated with the third dose — there is still no data.
5. You insist that the vaccine prevents infection and you’re unaware of all the statistics showing that the number of vaccinated infected people is equal to their share in the population, and even more.
And here I’ll add 5 studies for you (let’s see you bring even one study that supports your position) showing there’s no difference in contagion between vaccinated and unvaccinated people (viral load testing by measuring CT values in PCR):
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v1
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v3
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/investigation-of-novel-sars-cov-2-variant-variant-of-concern-20201201
https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-637724/v1
The second link is the CDC study, by the way. And here is also the publication from the CDC website:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm?s_cid=mm7031e2_w
And as a bonus, if you don’t know English and/or lack the ability to read scientific articles in the field, here’s an article from Mako:
https://www.mako.co.il/news-lifestyle/2021_q3/Article-60dc80ce4a9fa71026.htm
Dedicated to Rabbi Abraham, Avishai, and all the corona exaggerators, lovers of the vaccine, lockdowns, and green and purple passes.
The Decisor — find me RNA that can be injected and induce cancer in a mouse. We’ll publish together in Nature; it’s much easier to poison the tap water.
Dudi —
1.-2. Right, I missed a zero. The risk according to the Ministry of Health in the younger ages is 1 in 2,500 for severe illness and 1 in 6,000 for myocarditis (only in boys); still the risk is smaller. It’s true that healthy children don’t die, but I don’t wish any child to be hospitalized for two days in a corona ward, so the risk assessment in the decision to vaccinate is certainly logical.
3. The main thing is that you agree children with illnesses must be vaccinated. If you’re more worried about the vaccine relative to a healthy child — that’s against the opinion of most experts, but it’s not absurd.
4-5. It’s true that there is an equal percentage of confirmed cases — the vaccine does not prevent the vaccinated person from being infected, but it definitely raises the ability of the immune system to clear the virus — that’s how it prevents severe illness. Therefore the reasonable working assumption is that the virus infects more when it resides in someone who isn’t vaccinated — simply because it survives in him better and for a longer time.
I read one study about PCR in patients with the delta strain — the study compared vaccinated and unvaccinated hospitalized patients. It found a non-significant difference in favor of the vaccinated. As I explained, when we compare two people in the same clinical state, one vaccinated and one not, we probably won’t get a difference. The vaccinated simply arrive at the hospital much less often.
To my understanding, there is no data that comes even close to disproving the very logical assumption that someone who vaccinates is less contagious. (Again note — less contagious to others, not less likely to get infected.) If you have something convincing, please, I’d be happy to hear.
To say that mRNA that causes cancer cannot be made is like sticking your head in the sand and saying that malicious code for a computer that will destroy it cannot be made.
There are viruses already known to induce cancer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oncovirus
With God’s help, 11 Elul 5781
Support for and opposition to corona are not connected to wisdom or stupidity. What we have here are different approaches regarding the degree of trust placed in the scientific establishment and its decisions.
Since many of the contents taught and methods of work practiced in the existing education system stem from conventions accepted in the institutional scientific world, one who advocates alternative scientific conceptions is entitled to receive an education system that teaches and advocates alternative approaches. Let each person live by his own worldview!
Just as people propose privatizing agriculture and kosher supervision — so too the education system should be privatized. Whoever wants conventional education will receive conventional education; and whoever advocates alternative education will merit alternative education!
With blessings, Alter Nativ HaKohen Ben-Zion
Here you go, Avishai.
There are five studies here. Seems to me that’s enough:
https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-637724/v1
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/investigation-of-novel-sars-cov-2-variant-variant-of-concern-20201201
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v3
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v1
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733
Avishai,
you can read this Twitter thread. Some of the studies are there too.
https://twitter.com/IAC_IL21/status/1427713366739533830
Paragraph 1, line 1
Support for and opposition to the corona vaccines are not connected…
Differences in approach regarding the vaccine require different methods of protection. Opponents of the vaccine will place the emphasis in protection on wearing masks, distancing, and small groups, whereas supporters of the vaccine will place the emphasis on vaccination and be less strict about distancing.
Therefore it is not far-fetched that separate educational and cultural systems should exist for those with the different outlooks, and each group will adopt the emphases that seem right to it.
In places where separation is not possible — they will need to act stringently in the methods of protection, and strict care will be required to prevent crowding and maintain distance as before vaccines existed. This will require maintaining small classes and moving some of the learning to Zoom, and perhaps this will be good beyond the corona concerns.
With blessings, Alter Nativ the Conventional Levite
The Decisor — there are also bacteria, chemical substances, and snake venom. But an RNA molecule like this does not change the genome and does not create cancer. It’s not a reasonable concern. Believe me, I know there are viruses that create cancer, but specifically the Pfizer vaccine contains no virus at all (unlike some routine vaccines, which are live attenuated virus — including RNA or DNA as well as viral proteins).
Dudi — I read it. The two relevant studies there say exactly what I said: vaccinated people who are sick and unvaccinated people who are sick — all have high viral load. That’s obvious — they’re sick.
But thank God, in most cases the vaccine prevents illness. And therefore it also delays the ability to infect.
It’s like comparing a successful school where 5 students failed the matriculation exam in math to a school where 50 failed, and saying they’re at the same level because the average score of the failures is identical.
I hope you find more reliable sources of information to rely on than that thread. It’s not serious. It’s very biased against the system and not at all critical of its own claims.
And again — the vaccine prevents severe illness by improving the ability of the immune system to clear the virus. Less virus means less contagion. Therefore unless the opposite is proven very clearly, all the restrictions on those who do not vaccinate are reasonable. (Especially in the case of adults and in relation to the first two doses.)
I assume you do know English, but in drawing conclusions from studies you still have room to improve.
The first and last show that delta infects vaccinated people. Well done.
The middle ones show what I said before — compare sick people (or mainly sick people) and you’ll find the same levels.
If you want to do a study that proves your claim, you need to take a population randomly, and not only those who tested positive, including follow-up regarding the positives with a number of additional tests.
By the way, there is a study from Singapore that shows the opposite, but the monkey doctor from Laniado said it isn’t good.
And besides, even in the studies you brought, in most cases there is a difference in favor of the vaccinated — not statistically significant, but a significance level of 0.2 means that in 80 percent the difference isn’t random. One of the stupidest mistakes is to say you have proof that there is no difference when you have several articles with a non-significant difference.
In short, good thing there are people in the Ministry of Health with judgment who know how to draw conclusions correctly from articles.
For your sake I even bothered to do the most superficial Google search. And I found an article published in Nature Medicine (a journal with a higher impact factor than everything you brought put together) that says the opposite. But as I explained before, first think and only afterward read articles.
Good luck.
By the way, I do not know whether you work in science, but you should know that there are subjects in which, without a high number of patients, the chance of getting statistical significance is very low. That is probably the case with the articles you brought. If I conduct a sufficiently small study, I can “prove to you there is no difference” regarding almost anything.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01316-7
True, this is not about the delta strain, but it shows that the vaccine lowers viral load. Until there is conclusive proof otherwise — that is the working assumption: the vaccine prevents illness by clearing the virus.
Avishai, read again.
If a malicious agent replaces Pfizer’s code with malicious genetic code,
then the vaccination campaign will destroy the entire Jewish people.
Why would the malicious agent replace specifically Pfizer’s code and not the code of the tetanus vaccine?
Because there are broad vaccination campaigns in the State of Israel to inject the Pfizer substance. And for someone who wants to destroy the Jewish people, that would be the easiest and fastest way.
And besides, nobody would know at all who, how, and why. You can’t see it. It’s tiny.
And when the children next year don’t know the material, will they go into a lower grade and harm the social fabric?