Rabbi, I think your answer is playing innocent. Even if by the strict letter of the law there is no prohibition as long as there are no improper thoughts, it is obvious that this opens the door to serious breaches because of the emotional closeness that develops through learning. Anyone who has learned even a little knows that a havruta is not just some casual thing; very strong bonds really do develop through it. I also think that the very idea that there can be such a dry, purely matter-of-fact relationship in a frequent and deep encounter between a man and a woman is emotional blindness. I don’t understand you, Rabbi.

And don’t dodge and say that I’m being stringent because I haven’t properly dealt with my sexual urge. I am completely in favor of healthy relationships with women and even conversation, but when it’s frequent and involves intimate conversations, all the more so a havruta with a young woman when you do not intend to develop a relationship with her as a result, that is a serious opening for things to go wrong.

I wrote that if there are forbidden thoughts, that is a different discussion, but the learning itself is not forbidden. I wrote what I had to write. If you disagree, that is of course your right.

There are things that should be prohibited even if by the strict letter of the law one can be lenient, and this is one of them.

I can say that I am a Haredi nursing student in a mixed class; naturally there are more women than men, and it just didn’t work out for me to study for exams with a man. I regularly study in a “havruta” with women before every exam. There is a healthy, normal friendship, but we don’t go beyond that. The goal is practical, and if the boundaries are clear, it doesn’t go anywhere problematic.

Dvir, you wrote that this involves “intimate conversations.” Serious Daf Yomi study is not supposed to include intimate conversations.

Does the Rabbi permit this specifically only in the case mentioned by the questioner (“It should be noted that the havruta takes place over the phone, without either of us seeing the other, and certainly without physical closeness. She is in the east and I am at the far end of the west”)… or even when they are sitting together at the same table… face to face…???

The answer is the same. The likelihood of improper thoughts developing is of course different.

The answer is the same. The likelihood of improper thoughts developing is of course different.

With God’s help, 15 Kislev 5783

To Shachar — greetings,

If you are married, it would be advisable to consult your wife whether she thinks it is appropriate for you to learn Daf Yomi with another woman. And if you are not married, one may hope that very soon both you and your havruta will find your matches. Will you continue the havruta then? Will your future wife be comfortable with your learning in havruta for an hour a day with another woman? Will your havruta’s future husband look favorably on her learning for an hour a day with another man? And perhaps the very fact that you are learning together creates the impression that you are a couple, and so you lose matchmaking suggestions? In short: think about the end result before you begin…

With blessings,
Shealtiel Haim Blau-Weiss the Blue-Eyed

According to Rashi’s interpretation, this was Rabbi Eliezer’s reason for saying that a person should not teach his daughter Torah: through the daughter’s Torah study, she may come to inappropriate relationships with men.

To be sure, this concern was stronger in their time, when all Torah study involved direct teacher-student relationships and close fellowship among companions. But even in our day there is no shortage of problems that begin with joint study by a man and a woman (see also the Takana Forum). And without entering into a halakhic discussion, there is certainly value in following the practice of our fathers and mothers, that “Abraham converted the men and Sarah converted the women…”

With blessings,
Hashava