Question

Hello Michi. Here an interesting discussion began. With your permission, I’d like to continue it.
Israel
You wrote: “I would tell people that they are mistaken, in the sense that they are mistaken in understanding themselves. That is, they themselves should also admit the mistake after I explain it to them, and understand that they indeed did not define correctly the concept they are using.”
“The question whether poetry is an idea that exists in the nature of the world or an artificial creation of human beings (the question of the Platonism of the idea of poetry) is not important for our purposes here. I am looking for the meaning of the concept of poetry that most of us intend, and in my opinion there definitely is such a concept and it has a meaning that can be clarified.”
Seemingly, according to Ockham’s razor, we should not assume a Platonic existence of ideas, and it should be enough for us to relate to “concepts” as you describe them here: “a meaning that most of us intend,” “the concept they are using.”
So my question is: why do you maintain that ideas have an “external” existence?
Michi
I explained this in Two Carts (Second Gate): because of the principle of causality, I assume that if I have an experience within me, it has an external source (= the object that produces it). By the same token, if there is in my mind a defined and distinct concept, I tend to think that it has an external source that generates it and from which I drew this understanding (this is a kind of anthropological argument).
Israel

Now a point has become sharper for me: I also agree with you that there is a source and cause for my experiences and concepts, but why “external”? Why not settle for a source and cause that exist “inside” (not a Platonic existence)?
As I was writing, it became even clearer to me that in fact the concepts of “inside” and “outside” themselves require definition (one that will formulate their intuition). What is “inside” and what is “outside”? Why is it important to distinguish between them? And what practical difference does it make whether something exists in an external existence or in an internal existence? (That is almost the same as asking what the point of the discussion is over whether ideas have a Platonic existence or not.)

Michi

The answer is in the body of the question: by ‘external‘ and ‘internal‘ I do not mean a geographic-spatial boundary. The question is whether there is such a concept or not. If it exists, but is inside me, that is still external in that sense.
Essentially the question is whether we invent the concepts or uncover them. Of course, if it is found within all human beings (intersubjective), then it is clearer that it is really outside.
Israel
I still haven’t understood well enough:
1. On the one hand, from your words it seems that “externality” is determined by the entity. That is, if the concept exists, then it is outside (even if it is found within the person).
2. But on the other hand, you also make it depend on the number of people in whom this concept is found. Which implies that if it is found only in me, then even if it exists, it is inside and not outside.
3. And finally, you make it depend on the concept’s source: whether it is invented by a person (in which case it would be called inside) or whether it is only discovered (and would be called outside).
Aside from the fact that I can’t extract from your words a complete explanation composed of these claims, the individual points also still require clarification for me:
Regarding 1: how is it still determined what exists and what does not?
Regarding 2: seemingly, the number of people is not a defining characteristic, but only a sign that I am not inventing the concept (because it is not likely that many people would invent the same thing)?
Regarding 3: how is it determined whether the concept was invented or discovered, given that even if it was invented it could still be taught to someone who did not invent it (but only received it), and for that person it would only be in the category of something “discovered”? Do we need to go ask the first person who conceived the concept whether he “found” it or “invented” it?