Q&A: To the Rabbi and the Genius
To the Rabbi and the Genius
Question
Why in the later generations did they take the value of Torah and diminish all other values in comparison to it, especially in the Lithuanian yeshivas?
P.S. Thank you very much for all the lectures.
a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0A pained yeshiva student from a Lithuanian yeshiva
Answer
Hello. a0For some reason this question slipped my mind. My apologies.
It a0isn a0’t only in the later generations. a0 a0The statement that Torah study is equal to them all appears already in the Sages in tractate Pe a0ah. The severity of the sin of neglecting Torah study also appears there. But I agree that in the later generations they emphasized a bit more the importance of study. It may be that this was a reaction to the surrounding world (which placed intellect and wisdom at the center).
Are you pained because they placed Torah study at the center? Why does that cause you pain?
Gladly.
Discussion on Answer
With proofs like these, maybe you really should focus less on studying…
There a0’s a PhD next to my name because I did a doctorate. That says nothing at all about its importance, etc. On the contrary, the title a0Rabbi doesn a0’t formally belong to me, because I wasn a0’t ordained as a rabbi. Beyond that, I wasn a0’t the one who decided to attach the titles. When people ask me, I always say I a0’d be happy to give up both of them. I don a0’t like the use of titles.
The subjects I deal with, for the most part, are Torah study, whether in the person or in the object.
As for your bizarre remarks about Bar-Ilan, I really have no words at all, so I a0’ll refrain.
I have to say, with all due respect, that it a0’s been a long time since I a0’ve seen such an absurd comment here. The amount of nonsense per line is an impressive scholarly achievement.
It seems to me that aside from the additions at the end, and connecting the sentences, and dressing the claims up as specifically about the Rabbi so that you a0’d get the point, I didn a0’t really make anything up myself. True, I took a few claims from a few different styles. But that was in the sense of a well-plastered cistern. ? (Of course, my understanding of their words is also subjective, as you elaborated in one of your columns on interpretation, but I a0’m pretty sure that this is what they mean…)
In any case, you a0’re not impressed by the claims only because in your view there is no providence. But if you switch the a0glasses or the disk and think about the world as a world that has good guys and bad guys, there is us and a0them, a world in which the helicopter of the last generation is trying to shake the rope and see who is holding on tight and who isn a0’t, then I think you could understand the claims. A world in which there are forces trying with all their might to destroy religious society (and who stands behind these phenomena? It a0’s not only the wicked people, but also some metaphysical something that is testing *us*) a0then I hope you can understand the claims.
In any event, I heard most of these things myself.
K was also joking, 80%. About what a0’s been happening here over the last day in opposite directions, one could say: Jewish law, your donkey was torn apart a0with the h/t switched, as is the custom.
To Shulyata a0great peace,
What do you think, that this is the a0Mount Humor sect? 🙂 We a0’re serious people!
Regards, Shimson Lightes
I reread K a0’s words, and what made me think it was serious was the opening sentence, which really was written seriously. But maybe everything else really was said humorously. In my defense, the pace doesn a0’t allow me to read calmly.
In any case, I apologize for the put-downs. I thought he was raising serious arguments (and after all, there are people here who raise such arguments and similar ones). 🙁
Shimson Lightes, what a0’s especially fun here is that both when taking off into huge topics and when diving into technical details, a light and relaxed spirit blends through the room. But there a0’s no escaping Poe a0’s law leading to mistakes in both directions if the writer didn a0’t take care to plant enough hints.
Indeed, and the advisable advice is to add a clarifying smiley. And this is the language of our teacher Rabbi Rabbi Vav Padya:
Poe a0’s law was formulated in 2005 by Nathan Poe on an internet site in a discussion about creationism. The original sentence was: a0Without a winking smiley or some other overt display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of creationism in such a way that someone won a0’t mistake it for the real thing. a0
Were I not afraid, I would say regarding this thread the following, based on what we have received from our rabbis: one should not dress up as a rebbe, because if you put on a rebbe a0’s clothes and arrive with a luxury car and two roaring thugs, you really are a rebbe. And accordingly, the same applies to creationists: their arguments are so absurd that it is impossible to distinguish between satire about them and their own actual words. And their own words are their memorial a0for a blessing. But a group that raises reasonable arguments (even if mistaken) is less prone to Poe failures, and clarifying smileys are less necessary.
Go out and learn the quality of the arguments I sometimes encounter on this very site on these matters…
The Hebrew letters corresponding to the foreign letters in the title are: a0To the rabbi, the genius.
Regards, B. Lamed Shin
Indeed, I was joking 95%; I wasn a0’t really asking all those questions seriously. But these are arguments that exist. Aside from the beginning, which was a serious question: what is your view of the relationship between the primary status of Torah study and your being a PhD, with the great investment in secular subjects that goes along with that.
I just didn a0’t like the answer where you stung the questioner a bit: a0Why does that cause you pain? a0 I agree with the answer that for many generations people have seen the importance of Torah, and yes, that also appears at length in Psalm 119.
In any case, I feel that the questioner was asking more than that a0not only from the angle of increasing the value of Torah, but mainly from the angle of diminishing all the other values in the name of that value. That a0’s how I understand what he explicitly wrote: a0Why in the later generations did they take the value of Torah *and diminish all other values in comparison to it*. a0
As if what bothers him is not the increase in the value of Torah study, but the downgrading of the other values, and you didn a0’t address that at all. I feel that the downgrading of values isn a0’t done only in the theoretical dimension. For example, the claim that work should be secondary, and therefore there is no need to a0sanctify it as other sectors do.
Rather, I feel just a little bit that his claim is also about the contempt that one can often hear from various preachers in various styles, or from various rabbis of different sorts. So I thought he meant diminution in the sense of disparagement, and you didn a0’t address that, and even stung him a bit. And therefore I tried to argue that if you justify that yeshiva-hothouse-Haredi establishment even in those aspects, then why don a0’t you yourself go exactly that way!? Or more than that, what do you think about all kinds of claims by various rabbis about people a0and even more so rabbis a0who are exactly like you…
Where in the mildest versions they are a0just sick, a0 and in other styles of preachers they are part of the gangs of Satan.
a0Regards, a pained yeshiva student on behalf of that pained one who asked.—
Sorry if I offended; it was supposed to be a little funny, especially after your long post which at a quick glance seemed to justify The Jews Are Coming… But it shows that no sector likes being laughed at. And I think there is a difference between allocating budgets from the public sector to private bodies (like religious institutions or secular institutions such as various secular pre-military academies), and allocating money to a public institution whose role is to serve as news for *the entire* public, where there is no place for satires that so deeply hurt many private individuals and groups within the Jewish people. And moreover, if you read interviews with the actors who broadcast there, you a0’ll discover that part of their goal in that program is to awaken people to various ideologies, so that they are trying to change people a0’s thinking about Torah, and that seems to me even more severe for something that comes from the budget of *state* news. (As proof, think what would happen if Kan 11 gave Chabad an hour at the highest-rating slot, in the evening after the news, to air its thoughts?!…) Not long ago there was some Chabad interviewer who read a letter from the Rebbe about homosexuals, if I remember correctly, and he was fired from Kan Heritage news not long ago a0according to his claim, only because of that.
And as proof of their great hypocrisy: they didn a0’t cover the demonstration that was right next to them that very night! They didn a0’t even have to drive to cover it, because it was under their building, and moreover they had a religious reporter at the demonstration but didn a0’t air him on the news! It a0’s simply terrible!
And especially since you probably don a0’t watch television, but they almost did live broadcasts to cover demonstrations with just a few people at that same time. (They kept showing in a loop all kinds of demonstrations at interchanges and junctions against the government while covering the a0central a0 protest at Balfour, which at times included fewer than ten thousand, if I remember correctly…!) And that wasn a0’t much, much more than the demonstration against The Jews Are Coming.
I can understand what he means. There a0’s no problem with Torah study being central; it a0’s just annoying when that center tramples all the other values. I a0’m sure you can understand that…
And I have proof for the Rabbi: if Torah study is central, why is there a PhD next to your title? Is Your Honor ill? And why does Your Honor deal with subjects that aren a0’t necessarily Torah study proper, like philosophy? Is that because of personal temptations…? Or maybe it a0’s actually following the evil inclination itself, or pride? And especially with these two questions one has to remember that everything is in the Torah… And even if you a0’d say that to understand the Talmud you need external knowledge, in the end the words of the Vilna Gaon are well known: without it, a person will lack a hundred measures in the wisdom of Torah…
And why does he teach in that place, God save us? Perhaps he is one of those gangs of Satan? And this can be understood in two ways: either he increases heresy while keeping a kippah, in the aspect of the serpent; or he is one of those whom Satan guards so that they remain religious despite all the filth that prevails there, with the spirit of impurity and promiscuity and heresy, only in order to cool the bath so that other people will see that a0 a0Rabbi Michael Abraham, may he live long, is the head of Judaism at Bar-Ilan University, and then they a0’ll say to themselves: surely this place is glatt kosher, a place where one can stay religious and even grow spiritually. And the proof is that the Rabbi is there.
But alas… oy oy oy…. Suddenly they encounter a desirable woman and leave the delightful Torah. And they make themselves into enlightened intellectuals, may God save us. The matter is clear: whoever hears it, both his ears will tingle. Therefore in this generation we have nothing but to remain in the wilderness and not leave the entrance of the yeshiva even four cubits. These things are known: we do His will and labor in His Torah. On the way of Torah we will go to sanctify the name of Heaven and fear neither fire nor water. And may God show us wonders from His Torah and save us from all errors, amen, may it be His will.