Belz’s side wanting to enter the Ministry of Education framework and teach core curriculum in their Torah study schools—is that a preference for stupidity and ignorance?
Or maybe some kind of progress and sobering up?

There are those who are waking up a bit, but I very much doubt that Belz is really there. Beyond that, in my estimation this is being done mainly for budgets, and I also assume they won’t actually teach what they committed to. Exactly like in Shas.

There has been a broad trend toward higher education and large Haredi sectors in universities, and also in the army, with the encouragement of major Haredi Torah authorities for many years already.

I can’t understand the unequivocal insistence of Degel not to let Belz into the Independent Education system.
Maybe someone can explain. It seems to me that in Independent Education they pull tricks and don’t really study according to the regulations. They’re afraid that the more institutions join and cut corners, the more the state will make an effort to supervise, and all the institutions will lose from it.

What is lacking in their service of God?

That they serve in an incorrect and foolish way. Their belief in various miracle-workers and holy men, their denial of education and wisdom, their ingratitude to their surroundings, their failure to share the burden, their not giving their young people tools for earning a living, and so on and so on.

Member of Knesset Moshe (Kinley) Tor-Paz, who was the architect of the education framework proposed to the Belz Hasidim, offers his explanation of the dispute. His remarks are brought in the article “Tor-Paz: the dispute in United Torah Judaism — not only education,” on the Arutz 7 website.

Best regards, Hanoch Henekh Feinshmaker-Polti

Tor-Paz’s familiarity with Haredi education in its various streams comes from the period when he was head of Minhal Education Jerusalem, the Jerusalem Municipality’s Education Administration. His name “Tor-Paz” is a Hebraization of “Keilingold,” meaning “golden row,” indicating his family’s descent from the author of the Turei Zahav. The nickname “Kinley” was given to him by the guys because of his family name “Keilingold.”

Interestingly, Tor-Paz, who in the past was secretary-general of Torah Va’Avodah Loyalists, understood that promoting modernization in Haredi education cannot be done through pressure and coercion, but rather with patience and through dialogue. Let the people of “the third identity” hear and learn a lesson.

There is a claim that Tor-Paz consulted the librarian at Yad Harav Nissim before changing his name, after receiving a recommendation that the well-known librarian is very expert in fine details and in matters of “the intention of names,” and that “a name has an effect.”
Is the rumor true?

To H.Z.B. — greetings,

I knew Tor-Paz about 20 years ago, when he headed Torah Va’Avodah Loyalists, which rented an office room in the Yad Harav Nissim building, and even then he was already called “Tor-Paz.”

Once I arranged the benches in preparation for a board meeting of Torah Va’Avodah Loyalists, and I made a condition that what was said about Joshua would be fulfilled in me—that he was appointed to fill Moses’ place because he used to arrange the benches in his study hall.

However, I was not privileged to fill his place—not as secretary-general of Torah Va’Avodah Loyalists, not as principal of the Sde Eliyahu school, not as head of Minhal Education Jerusalem, and I fear not as a Knesset member on behalf of Yesh Atid either 🙂

Best regards, Menashe Barkai Buch-Treger (M.B.T.)

From what I understood, the budgeting will be according to external tests of the Ministry of Education that examine knowledge of English and arithmetic, without interfering in the educational approach itself. So really, why not expand this to all Israeli education?

You made me laugh.

You could also expand it so they supervise the adults too; there are many who remained uneducated.

With God’s help, the 11th of Elul 5782

To Chaim the Happy, Man of the Mountain — greetings,

Indeed, adults too need constant education, so that “the treatment and hassle of worldly matters” will not cause them to forget the proper character traits.

Habits of self-education are developed in yeshivot, through personal study of books of ethics, in groups in which issues of character refinement are discussed, and through personal talks and guidance from spiritual supervisors. The system offers a person the path of ascent. Of course, the responsibility rests on him to make a reckoning of his soul.

Beyond the study of ethics and setting aside time for soul-searching, the Chazon Ish noted (in Faith and Trust) the importance of analytical study of the fine details of Jewish law, which accustom a person not to “just go with the flow” casually, but rather to stop and think with every act, word, and thought whether they bring satisfaction to his Creator and to other people.

May it be God’s will that you merit a life of spiritual elevation מתוך true joy!

Best regards, Simcha Fishl HaLevi Plankton

Best regards, Hanoch Henekh Feinshmaker-Polti

Who is Chaim the Happy?

To Moshe — greetings,

“Chaim the Happy, Man of the Mountain” is a Hebrew translation of “Chaim Zelig Berger,” abbreviated as “H.Z.B.,” and he sometimes signs with that nickname too 🙂

Best regards, Ofer Badan Melvav-Muskeroner
from the village of “Luingne,” which today is part of the city of Mouscron in northwestern Belgium

So your name is Ofer, and the nicknames are Simcha Fishl / Hanoch Henekh / and you also have another nickname, Hasdai Betzalel, which someone named Chaim the Happy took from you?
Complicated…

It also doesn’t seem related to the discussion or to the level of the site. The first question you raised here, Ofer, was about the dispute between Degel and Agudah. I think Agudah is right, in this case.

To Moshe — greetings,

H.Z.B.’s question about the dispute between Agudah and “Degel” does not interest me at all, since because of my young age (64), and because I am Religious Zionist, it is unlikely that they would turn to me to issue a halakhic ruling in the dispute,

but since I found a reference to it online, I thought it proper to bring to the attention of the site’s readers the explanation of MK Tor-Paz, who was privy to the “Belz framework.”

Best regards, Ofer (= Zvi) Badan (= Samson) Melvav (= HaLevi) Muskeroner (= Luinger)

To the best of my knowledge, the Hasidim do not advocate the ideological outlook of a “society of learners,” and their kollel men customarily set out, as an ideal, after many years of yeshiva study, to wage-earning work in commerce or a trade, in the rabbinate or in education, and not to remain dependent on the wife’s work outside the home.

So too was the practice of our forefathers in the shtetl. There were no kollels for married scholars, apart from a few kollels for outstanding students in Lithuania. It was customary for the father-in-law to undertake to support his son-in-law for a few years so that he could grow in Torah, but at the end of the support period, the young married scholar would turn to seek his livelihood. Few found work as a rabbi, ritual slaughterer, or yeshiva head, and most turned to commerce, crafts, or teaching children.

There were a few yeshivot, such as Rabbi Klein’s yeshiva in Halmin in Hungary (the great-grandfather of our prime minister), which already during the yeshiva years combined, for those interested, studies of a wage-earning trade, without “enlightenment” and external wisdoms, aside from, of course, the four classes of elementary school that the kingdom required.

I too do not see any great point in the core curriculum. Someone who wants to be a scientist, doctor, or high-tech person of course needs knowledge of English and mathematics, but there are quite a few trades that do not require mathematics or English.

I am more impressed by my barber, Rabbi Rahamim (Rami) HaKohen-Shauli from Zikhron Moshe, who rises every day at 4 in the morning to give a lesson in the daily Talmud page, and in the barbershop too he meditates on the Talmud “between one customer and another,” and even his conversation with his customers is Torah.