Q&A: Josiah’s Reform and the Tradition
Josiah’s Reform and the Tradition
Question
I understood that, in the Rabbi’s view, the witness argument on its own is not all that strong. Recently I heard what seems to me to be a very strong counterargument, and it seems to work for me. So I wanted to ask your opinion. I’m talking about Josiah’s reform. The Hebrew Bible (Tanakh) tells us that Passover was not celebrated properly (if at all, depending on the interpretation) from the period of the Judges until King Josiah in Judah, which is altogether several hundred years. The Hebrew Bible (Tanakh) says that Ahaz, king of Judah, who preceded Josiah by a bit, burned all the Torah scrolls, and in general the period before Josiah was characterized by terrible sins and lack of faith in God, to the point that after the book was found it says, “Great is the wrath of the Lord that has been kindled against us, because our fathers did not listen to the words of this book, to do according to all that is written concerning us.” In any case, do you think the witness argument should be treated more as a secondary argument rather than as the basis of faith?
And one more small question on the topic: Radak, on II Kings, chapter 22, verse 8, explains that the Torah had been forgotten already from the days of Manasseh (also a king before Josiah), and that even Josiah did not recognize the text of the Torah that was found, and it was something new to him. By contrast, in the Book of Chronicles it says that Josiah began eliminating idolatry even before the book was found. So how or why did he do that if he did not know the Torah? How can the contradiction between Radak’s words and what is written in Chronicles be reconciled?
Thank you very much.
Answer
I’m not sure I understood the question. In my opinion, the witness argument is not bad, but by itself it doesn’t hold up. Combined with philosophical arguments about the existence of God and His revelation, and with historical evidence, it definitely has reasonable weight. The matter of Josiah is not a counterargument in any way. I explained this in my book The First Foundational Principle. On the contrary, from this we see that the Torah was transmitted through an ancient tradition.
That question should be addressed to Radak. I don’t deal with that literature. But as I wrote above, it is very unlikely that the Torah was forgotten. The episode of the finding of the Torah scroll proves that the tradition is ancient. The elimination of idolatry before this event only adds to that.
Discussion on Answer
When they find such a book and convince everyone that this is the Book of the Torah of Moses given at Sinai, that means everyone knew there was such a book, only that it had disappeared. Otherwise there’s no reason they would buy that line. Beyond that, we see that there were various halakhic elements even earlier, and only some of them disappeared. In short, it’s clear that there was an ancient tradition, including a Torah scroll. The people sinned and worshipped idols even when there was a book, so that’s irrelevant. Human urges have nothing to do with the information we have.
I don’t think that means everyone knew. Maybe King Josiah forced them. It explicitly says that Josiah “commanded” them to observe this Passover. It could also be that a small group had not forgotten the tradition, and it heavily influenced the whole people. If they were aware of all this, why did they repent only after Josiah’s rebuke? And not after the rebuke of other prophets? Weren’t they afraid of the terrible curses that were supposed to come upon them?
Add to that the story of Ahaz burning the Torah scrolls, and in general I just can’t imagine a scenario in which the people sinned so much for decades, there were no Torah scrolls to be found, and yet the tradition was still transmitted.
This just seems to me like plain stubbornness. There will always be difficulties based on “maybe.” That’s it, I’ve explained what I had to explain. If you think otherwise—that’s your right.
How does one see that the Torah was transmitted through an ancient tradition? We’re talking about decades in which there were no Torah scrolls at all in the kingdom, and the entire people was sinning and worshipping idols, when no Passover celebration is mentioned and no tradition from the period of the Judges until Josiah’s reform is mentioned. After that, Josiah finds a book that happened to survive, discovers the curses written in it, and forces the celebration of Passover and the elimination of idolatry. If that isn’t forgetting, it’s hard for me to believe what is. How is that any different from a plant? It doesn’t sound like there’s any significant difference at all.