Q&A: Are We in the Redemption?
Are We in the Redemption?
Question
Do you agree with Rabbi Kook that we are in the process of redemption, and why?
Answer
I haven’t the faintest idea, and in my estimation nobody does either (including Rabbi Kook).
Discussion on Answer
A colloquial expression meaning: I don’t have the slightest idea.
Doesn’t the following passage in tractate Sotah show that we are in such a process:
“In the footsteps of the Messiah, insolence will increase and prices will soar. The vine will yield its fruit, but wine will be costly. The government will turn to heresy, and there will be no rebuke. The meeting place will become a place of immorality, the Galilee will be destroyed, and the Gavlan laid waste, and the people of the border will go from city to city and receive no compassion. The wisdom of scribes will become putrid, those who fear sin will be despised, and the truth will be absent. Young men will shame the faces of elders, and elders will stand before the young. A son dishonors his father, a daughter rises against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, and a man’s enemies are the members of his own household. The face of the generation is like the face of a dog, the son is not ashamed before his father; and upon whom do we have to rely? Upon our Father in Heaven.”
And do you think there will ever be a redemption?
Not necessarily. Signs are a matter of interpretation. Beyond that, the Talmud itself also can’t know the future.
I don’t know.
I’m trying to get to the bottom of your view, so what would the Rabbi say about the following quotations:
A quotation from Ezekiel 37, the resurrection of the dead —
11 Then he said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say: Our bones are dried up, our hope is lost, we are cut off. 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them: Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am opening your graves and will bring you up out of your graves, My people, and I will bring you to the Land of Israel. 13 And you shall know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up out of your graves, My people. 14 And I will put My spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will settle you upon your land; and you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken and done it — says the Lord.”
A quotation from Daniel 12 dealing with the redemption of Israel:
Verses 2–3: “And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake: some to everlasting life, and some to reproaches and everlasting abhorrence. And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament, and those who lead the many to righteousness like the stars forever and ever.”
1) How can the Rabbi rule out the interpretation that the sources I cited above are speaking about redemption? My opinion is of course a small one, but many commentators and Jewish thinkers gave these quotations a redemptive interpretation — how can one dismiss them all?
2) What other interpretation can the Rabbi give?
3) If indeed it doesn’t seem likely to you that these things will happen — the World to Come, reward and punishment, deliberate divine intervention in the world, etc. — then what is the motive of the Jewish people? What is the purpose of creation, just to keep the commandments because they are true? It feels a bit weak to devote an entire life to an unknown goal…
General prophecies and verses from the Hebrew Bible can be interpreted in different ways, so it’s hard to draw a clear conclusion from them. “An eye for an eye” is also written, and it is interpreted to mean monetary compensation. “Until I come to my lord in Seir” is interpreted as referring to the World to Come.
The vision of the bones could be a metaphor for redemption and not a description of an actual resurrection of the dead.
I’m not ruling anything out, only wondering whether it is necessarily so. And in general, ad hominem arguments don’t work on me.
The service of God should be done for its own sake and not for the sake of reward. See Maimonides, chapter 10 of the Laws of Repentance.
What’s interesting about the signs of redemption is that whoever believes in them also believes that Bibi is God’s messenger (“Benjamin, beloved of God”), and therefore the government hasn’t exactly turned to heresy, especially since we’ve merited a government of faith.
Whoever thinks the government has turned to heresy and truth is absent and that our whole “government of faith” is a disgrace is usually not counted among those who calculate the end-times. A real Catch-22.
From the Arizal or one of his students, Maharhu, or another kabbalist,
at any rate, a kabbalistic book printed hundreds of years ago,
on the Scroll of Ruth.
The name of the book is And the Righteous One Is the Foundation of the World.
It explains the verse, “Stay the night, and in the morning, if he will redeem you, good; but if he does not wish to redeem you, then I will redeem you, as the Lord lives; lie down until morning.”
If I understood correctly, he swears there in the name of the Lord that the redemption will not be delayed beyond the year 5708 — “lie down until morning” is 5708.
And today is Foundation within Beauty, the 5th of Iyar,
and most of them were secular.
It was on the 5th of Iyar 5708,
most of them secular,
the last possible time for redemption — Ben-Gurion declared it (according to the law he was supposed to declare on the 6th of Iyar at midnight when the British Mandate expired, but he moved it up to Friday afternoon, whose date was the 5th of Iyar — amazing, a perfect fit, grapes of the vine with grapes of the vine)
of the establishment of the State of Israel.
It’s hard to ignore that all the conditions were fulfilled דווקא on that very day and in that very year and in that very spiritual state,
and all this has already been printed for hundreds of years and in several editions in the book And the Righteous One Is the Foundation of the World.
Therefore, and accordingly,
I definitely understand those who think that the State of Israel is the be
that the State of Israel is the beginning of the flowering of our redemption.
I also understand those who argue that it is a “deliverance” and not a “redemption,” because redemption is by miracle and this is redemption by way of nature…
What is certain is that we need to be careful that the wheel doesn’t turn backward, and that Bibi and his gang, in their malice, wickedness, and stupidity, don’t reverse the wheel so that we all get slaughtered and some, as refugees, manage to escape,
and everything retreats backward…
And the Holy One, blessed be He, and we will save ourselves from their hands.
In short,
whether this will be redemption or deliverance,
or destruction,
depends on our actions.
If we appoint good and upright leaders over us, there’s a good chance.
If we appoint Bibi, destruction will come.
Everything depends on our choice.
A question for all the people talking about the birth pangs of the Messiah — do you accept that the government has turned to heresy?
Is it agreed by all of us that Bibi-Smotrich-Ben Gvir-Shas-Agudah are a bunch of heretics?
Because one way or another — either we have a government of heretics or there are no footsteps of the Messiah.
And if we do have a government of heretics, do you remember to have in mind in prayer “and for the heretics,” etc., regarding the government of 64?
Gabriel, the kingdom of heretics is the High Court and the bureaucracy.
With God’s help, 18 Sivan 5784
Indeed, in the Talmud it is said regarding Ezekiel’s prophecy: “But you, O mountains of Israel, shall shoot forth your branches and yield your fruit to My people Israel, for they are soon to come” — “There is no more revealed end than this.” So here we have a ‘green notion’ 🙂
Best regards, Fish”l
Indeed the government turned to heresy and accepted Christianity,
though that was several generations upon generations ago.
Since then, as was said:
Everything is open 🎸🎷 it’s not too late yet…
Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire 1,700 years ago, so according to the logic that this is the beginning of the fulfillment of the prophecy, then the son of David could arrive in another 1,000–2,000 years (that is, tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, “for a thousand years in Your eyes are like yesterday when it passes”).
Azriel,
Is the High Court the ruler of the state?
Can the High Court send soldiers to war?
Does the High Court run the state budget of 500 billion shekels as if it were its private money?
Does the president of the High Court have a private plane that cost a billion shekels?
Speaking of a president, the High Court doesn’t even have a president since the government of heretics came to power!
But of course everything is run behind the scenes — there are three Jews with long noses, beards, and long fingers who control the world.
They pretend to be oppressed and persecuted, but they are the real rulers behind the scenes.
There’s extensive literature on the subject, including explicit protocols…
Even in World War II Hitler claimed that the Jews were the ones who initiated the war, as they did in every war ever since time immemorial…
Amazing how antisemitic propaganda has become the central axis of Bibist ideology — there isn’t an antisemitic cliché you’re not happy to adopt, there isn’t a disgrace you won’t proclaim loudly in public.
95% of the budget is tied up in salary agreements, interest repayments, predetermined payments, and the like. 5% of the budget is discretionary, and as we can see now with the High Court’s cancellation of yeshiva budgets, the Court has its own tools for how to control it. Anyone who thinks the legal system, through the legal advisory apparatus, has no tools to block or advance policy as it wishes is living in a fantasy. A few examples from the last few days:
https://www.inn.co.il/news/640863
What does “faintest” mean?