Q&A: Question About Drafting Haredim
Question About Drafting Haredim
Question
I am Haredi, and I follow with interest the whole discussion about drafting Haredim. There is one basic point that I don’t understand in the general public’s approach to the issue: why not discuss it from a technical point of view? That is — the general public is not willing to defend the Haredim, and the Haredim should manage on their own. There is no way to argue with that, because we cannot demand that anyone defend us for free. Just as there is no ideological debate over whether the supermarket should give free food to kollel students, why should military protection be any different?
(everyone discusses the matter from an ideological point of view, but in this area I do not believe there is any chance that any public will be persuaded to change its position)
Answer
The problem is that the suckers set up a liberal democracy here and decided that it obligates them toward everyone, including wicked parasites.
Discussion on Answer
Wicked in every sense. I’ve written more than once that I’m talking about Haredi public conduct. Individuals are a different matter. Many of them are like children captured among the gentiles.
Yitzhak, the only ideologies Haredim promote are exploitation and ignorance.
Yitzhak,
Your argument against the Haredim doesn’t hold water.
After all, they don’t benefit from the IDF’s protection at all. The Torah protects them.
If the rest of the public didn’t exist, there would be no army. They would study, and Hamas would be burned up by the fire of the Torah. That’s also why they don’t go to work. God pays them; the secular people are just His messengers.
That’s why they also don’t go to the doctor, or move when a car is speeding toward them, or eat. All you need is faith and trust.
Just kidding… not all Haredim are like that, I’m just generalizing. There are maybe a million who operate according to the natural order, heaven forbid, but army service is hard and money is fun.
Do you really, honestly think that Haredim don’t enlist for reasons of convenience, and not for ideological reasons?
P.S. I’d be glad to get an answer from you to my question. I don’t understand why everyone gets angry at the Haredim and curses them out, instead of informing them that they need to manage on their own, and that’s the end of the story. After all, the Haredim have no ability to force the rest to defend them for free…
Yitzhak,
How exactly would you not defend the Haredim? Define Bnei Brak as open sky for the Iron Dome?
We’re not deaf, and we hear very well the “ideology” behind the draft-dodging. The thing is, that ideology is built out of all sorts of reasons, some stronger and some very weak, all asserted in one breath. And if you knock down one excuse, another excuse always pops up. That creates the feeling (or more accurately, the conclusion) that these are ad hoc claims.
There is one central claim that really is not ad hoc, and that is the fear of secularization. The Haredi public acts this way not only on this issue, and that is indeed believable. But… it is easy to see that even if you refute that problem, the motivations to share the burden are still far from being there. So yes… behind it all there is simply laziness. And don’t get me wrong, I’m not judging the individual. It is very hard to give the best years of your life for a value you were not raised on, and were even raised against. Especially since there is a considerable social price to pay for it. But I also don’t judge a savage cannibal in the jungles of Africa.
P.S. I spoke at length with a guy from Bnei Brak who thinks Haredim should enlist. He honks in support at the protests in Coca-Cola Junction. Preaches about it to everyone who will listen. And… he is ashamed that he himself does not enlist; he feels like a hypocrite, but weakness of will is greater than him (married with children and a career, and he himself said: “Reservists also have a family and a career, that’s not an excuse”… I make excuses for him, but this is not the place). Not only do I not judge him, I even appreciate him positively. I don’t think I would behave differently from him under the circumstances. And still I think he is acting wrongly. No contradiction.
By the way, this of course did not begin as laziness. Once there really were genuine ideologues, and the situation in the IDF was also different.
The current Haredi generation has long since become extreme right-wing Zionist. What remains is understandable laziness: we grew up this way. Until today we haven’t enlisted, none of the older brothers enlisted. The army is yucky. Why enlist?
Thought experiment:
Rabbi Dov Lando gathers all the yeshiva students in Teddy Stadium and announces a new Haredi brigade that he signs off on, and declares a general draft. Will that bring draft-dodging to an end? I wish. Rabbi Lando would be moved to a nursing home immediately. Even if there once was ideology, by now the situation is simply too comfortable to change. That’s the whole story.
Isn’t it a wild exaggeration to define Haredim as wicked?
We are not acting this way out of selfish motives, but out of an ideology of wanting to do the right thing. You can argue with that ideology, and I myself have quite a few questions about it, but the motive is certainly positive and not just plain malice.