Q&A: Protons, Identity, and Leibniz
Protons, Identity, and Leibniz
Question
Hello!
Unlike atoms, which differ from one another in their properties (that is, “emergent” properties), among protons there are no differences, and one can determine that they are particles with no identity or form at all (only physical properties such as mass, etc.). That is, they are point-like and nothing more (or waves, according to other interpretations)! If so, it follows that there is no way to distinguish one proton from another, so how does this fit with Leibniz’s view that when there is no difference, it is the same thing?
Thank you very much!
Answer
I asked this on the basis of the distinction between fermions and bosons. Protons are fermions, so there דווקא is evidence for Leibniz there, because no two fermions can be in the same state (energy and other properties). But bosons are evidence against him, since bosons can be found in exactly the same state (that is what happens in Bose-Einstein condensation). Though he could always say that these are not many particles, but one large particle.
Discussion on Answer
Where did you get this strange idea? A human being doesn’t determine it, but diagnoses it. Reality determines it.
Why is it a strange idea? It’s pretty clear that nature doesn’t know what a tree is.
You identify leaves and roots as one entity.
Isn’t that so?
Nature also doesn’t know what a proton is. Nature doesn’t know anything. Only human beings know things. But seeing a tree as a tree is not an invention; it is a distinction / recognition.
Good evening!
I’d like to discuss this from another angle: is every form/identity of a material particle actually a real form, or only a matter of consciousness? That is, from nature’s own perspective, for example, a collection of roots and leaves is not a “tree”; only the human being determines that.
Thank you very much!