Q&A: An Atheist Friend
An Atheist Friend
Question
1. When an atheist friend and I were talking, I argued that the world is very complex, and he claimed that not necessarily.
When I asked him to give me a monthly forecast, he got a bit tangled up and said that this is not complexity in reality. I argue that it is complexity in reality. I’d be happy to hear the Rabbi’s perspective.
In addition, when I asked him whether, if he saw a fork / a Beitar Jerusalem football team scarf in outer space, he would claim that there was a creator behind it, he said yes, but it depends — it depends on whether I had seen such a scarf before, because if not, it could be very random. I argue that this is not rational — and what bothered him was the analogy to reality, of a Creator / maker and the world.
2. That same friend asked me whether I believe in the Flood that took place in Noah’s time, and I answered yes. When I said yes, he said there is no geological / archaeological proof that there was ever a flood on the scale described.
I answered that maybe it is a parable / a matter of belief conveying a certain truth, and he claimed that when things get a bit difficult, Judaism conveniently escapes into parables and ideas.
I would appreciate some expansion on the subject, Rabbi.
Answer
1. The complexity of the world is objective. It has mathematical measures (entropy). According to that measure, a living creature is far more complex than, for example, an inanimate object.
2. That is indeed true. Once people decide that something is true, then when difficulties arise they adopt various explanations for it, sometimes even forced ones. Everyone does this because it is reasonable. He certainly does it too. Here are three examples, one of them from him himself.
A. I assume that Israel is not committing war crimes in Gaza, so when I hear Yair Golan and Bogie Ya’alon claiming that it is, I look for explanations (hatred of Bibi that has driven them out of their minds).
B. When believers in evolution encounter a fact that seems to contradict the theory, such as the peacock’s wingspan and coloration, they look for an explanation (Amotz Zahavi’s handicap principle).
C. Once he decided that there is no God, and you present him with a contrary fact — that the world is complex and unlikely to have come into being on its own — he offers a forced explanation: that this complexity is imaginary.
Discussion on Answer
By the way, is the scarf analogy correct?
I don’t know what “Judaism’s approach” to something means. What you think is, from your perspective, Judaism’s approach.
The scarf example is correct, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with whether you saw such a scarf before.
What do you mean that what I think is Judaism’s approach?
The Torah has an approach to things, and that’s why I’m asking what the story of the Flood in the Torah is…?
If you assume premises different from mine, that is of course your right. So ask yourself and not me.
I don’t understand — could you please elaborate on the last answer?
What is there to elaborate on? I told you that it can be interpreted literally, and it is also possible to conclude that it is a parable, even if that does not appear to be the plain meaning of the text. You ask what “Judaism” thinks about it? I don’t know who “Judaism” is. One person may interpret it literally and another may interpret it as a parable. Which one of them is “Judaism”? What does “Judaism” think about the verse “You shall be holy”? Rashi writes: separated from sexual prohibitions; Nachmanides says: not to be a degenerate with the permission of the Torah; and Maimonides interprets it as a general command to fulfill the commandments. So what does “Judaism” think about that verse?
The claim that there is no geological evidence is incorrect. There is much evidence for major floods that caused wide-ranging changes. The question is whether this was a worldwide flood or only a Middle Eastern one (as is known, the Sages held that there was no Flood in the Land of Israel, so the verses do not necessarily require that this was a worldwide flood, even though that seems to be the plain meaning of Scripture).
Thank you very much!
If so, what is Judaism’s approach to the Flood? A parable / story, etc.?