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Rational arguments as an influence on changing a position – failure

שו"תRational arguments as an influence on changing a position – failure
שאל לפני 6 שנים

Peace and blessings,
I eagerly read your wonderful books (the new trilogy). The books are written much more successfully than the previous ones, and the mere transfer of ideas through dialogue is enough to create this difference. It is a pity that this dialogue did not carry over into the third part of the book.
In our case, in the first book you presented arguments to justify belief in God. And here I would like to challenge this point. What underlies the motivation to formulate arguments for proofs of God is simple: if it is good evidence, it will cause a change in position. Although I regret to disappoint you and many like you, man is not a rational machine. Man does not act according to his mind, certainly not in the significant decisions in his life and values ​​in general. I say this in a somewhat imprecise formulation: a man has an internal point where he feels a connection to something and thus has a position towards many things in the world. On this platform he justifies his positions. And in our case: a man who feels alienated in a strange way from the idea of ​​God, of choosing a people, from the idea of ​​the commandments of the Torah, etc. – will never be able to be convinced of the reality of God or evidence to prove the Jewish tradition. To reach such a situation, you need to do something else – make him connect to tradition or, alternatively, to the idea of ​​God – by creating some kind of experience in him or a feeling that these things are serious enough to justify them rationally. Therefore, the things you wrote will definitely not make these changes, because your words are written from a wrong perception.
I'll just give you an example to end the matter: Imagine that a close acquaintance of yours tells you that he is in a close relationship with the Queen of England and that they discuss burning topics together in letters and on the phone from time to time. Of course you will think that he is mentally ill or that something has happened to him. And if he brings you evidence of this? You will still refuse to believe it. You will interpret the evidence differently or try to explain why it is fake. What is the point of that? Because you have a prior position that claims that it is nonsense. And this is the prior position I am talking about…


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מיכי צוות ענה לפני 6 שנים
There is quite a bit to comment on your words, and I will do so briefly. First, those who are not convinced then not. I write to those to whom the things speak. Experiences and existentialism have already received favorable treatment from many authors and those who seek them have a place to do so. Secondly, I don't agree that everyone follows only emotion and experience. Logical considerations are certainly significant for many. And third, most importantly, your example shows that you are wrong about a very fundamental distinction that I have made in several books (mainly Two Carts and Truth and Unstable). It is clear that at the heart of every argument are assumptions, and these are determined by intuition and not logical argument. Therefore, it is clear that an argument can only work on those who accept its assumptions. But this is a feature of logical arguments in general. Does this mean that there is no point in using logic? The fourth conversation in the first book clarifies the matter (and in the aforementioned book I did more of this). For this there is rhetoric that examines assumptions and can change initial intuitions. Therefore, there are certainly situations in which people are convinced by new assumptions and then the argument is relevant to them. This reflects the fact that up until now they were wrong (they thought they were assuming X but it turned out that they were not – this is what a revelatory or "theological" argument does), or that they are changing their minds now. And in your example, if that person brings good arguments, I will definitely be convinced that he is in a relationship with the Queen of England, even though I tend not to accept it at first. Your description of the person's thinking is too simplistic. I think that in my book I bring the example of rationalism versus rationality (which I also brought on the website), and the example of a jaundice patient. Take it from there.

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