Q&A: A Healthy Attitude Toward Women
A Healthy Attitude Toward Women
Question
Hello Rabbi, this question feels to me somewhat unrelated to most of what I know from the site, but I’m asking the Rabbi as a wise person who is glad to help. I’ll try not to wear you out with too much background to the question.
Like most young men (as far as I know), I too was exposed to immodest content during my high school years and a bit afterward, until eventually, thank God, I got out of it. I think this created in me extremely flawed thought patterns regarding women (as could be expected from all of the above), what is called “objectification.” That is, I notice that the first way I perceive a woman (and not only in the first second) is not as a person like me, but in an instinctive way and “…”.
I’ll add that in order to “get out” of the problematic situation of falls and the like on the internet, I went all the way to the opposite extreme, and cut myself off from any connection with girls and the like, even simple friendliness that is accepted where I live—in a Religious Zionist community (as I understand it, this is also correct from the standpoint of Jewish law, though I’d be happy to be corrected). But even though, thank God, in day-to-day life I’ve been detached from all of that for about a year and a half or so, I think the basic attitude hasn’t changed, and I notice it in those times when I do see women (regardless of immodesty and the like). That is, it seems to me that my perception of women in my head changed from something that is supposed to give me pleasure and so on, to something I need to avoid because it might give me pleasure and so on—and although in practice this helps me cope in a substantial way, I think not much more than that has changed.
So my question is whether the Rabbi thinks there is a correct way to build a healthier attitude, and I’ll note that I’m asking this because I want to build a home within roughly the next two years, and I assume healthy relationships aren’t supposed to be conducted in such a warped way. So it seems to me that a basic condition for that is serious treatment of this issue. (I’ll note that I’m a yeshiva student, if that affects how the situation should be understood.)
Thank you in advance, and sorry if the question is a bit unrelated. I’m just a little helpless about this matter, even if not in day-to-day life as mentioned above.
Answer
Hello.
This question is definitely relevant and important. It seems to me that an attitude of objectification can be changed consciously and intentionally. Precisely if you meet intelligent and impressive women, it will be hard for you to relate to them as an object or as a sexual object. Maybe it would be worthwhile to try meeting in a more intellectual or spiritual context, rather than avoiding encounters. Usually, strong avoidance does not solve the problem and may even deepen it. Like someone who ran away from honor and complained that honor was not chasing after him. In my opinion, specifically a balanced and mixed society creates a healthier attitude than extreme separation.
I don’t know, but perhaps you are mixing up objectification with sexual desire. When you see a woman and desires are aroused in you, that is not necessarily objectification. It is a natural urge. Objectification means not seeing anything in a woman beyond a sexual object. When you live in a mixed society, it is hard to avoid the arousal of desire, and still, in my opinion, separation is not recommended. The Torah was not given to ministering angels, and we are not required to flee to deserts in order not to fail in transgressions. If it is hard for you and the urge is very strong, the remedy for that is to find a partner and get married (assuming there is no other obstacle, such as age and the like, aside from mere plans).
Discussion on Answer
If forming such connections does not change your attitude toward women and you still see them as objects, I don’t know what could change that. It seems the problem is not philosophical or conceptual but psychological (a failure to recognize reality). I’m writing this completely seriously, of course. It may be worthwhile to go to a psychologist (or a female psychologist).
By the way, I wasn’t talking about a personal relationship with a girl, but about living in a society in which women are also involved in intellectual and spiritual activities.
If your urge is not running wild over you, there is no necessity to give up plans for Torah study and growth. About that it was already said: “Should he have a millstone hanging from his neck and still engage in Torah?!” But if contact with women will arouse those urges, then certainly it is worthwhile to give it up.
Thank you very much, I’ll think about it.
As someone asking from the side: is there any halakhic concern about going to a female psychologist when a male psychologist is available?
Or does the very fact of asking that question show that it’s preferable…?
When choosing between professionals, the question is a professional one. That is true for a doctor and true for a psychologist. Go to whoever is better and more suitable in your eyes.
To the dear questioner—how did you get out of it? I’d be happy to get some help…
I’d be glad if you would correct me if I’m mistaken, but at least for me there’s an internal contradiction here. If the kind of connection the Rabbi is suggesting (intellectual/spiritual) will not create an emotional bond toward the girl, then seemingly it won’t change the basic feeling. In other words, even now I understand intellectually—and that’s the reason I was moved to deal with this on the level of awareness—that a woman is a person like me, and it is also obvious to me that there are smart and talented women, etc., and nevertheless in practice that is not the attitude that is formed. On the other hand, as I currently understand it, it is not right to form emotional bonds with a girl not for the sake of marriage. Also, I’m concerned that even if toward those particular girls a bond of appreciation and the like is formed, toward other girls it seems to me the situation will not change. That is, toward a guy with whom I have no ability to create high-level conversation and who does not manage to interest me on those levels (intellect and spirituality), usually I feel a desire to help him or just a neutral attitude. But toward a woman, I think this neutrality automatically gets filled with instinctive content.
[By the way, in practice I don’t fail in transgressions of this sort at all, since I’m in yeshiva and not in the company of women, and I control myself relatively well in this matter. Does the Rabbi think that I should nevertheless consider marriage and give up plans such as Torah study?].
Again, thank you for everything.