Q&A: Ontic Gratitude
Ontic Gratitude
Question
Regarding your explanation of serving God as part of a philosophical moral obligation, what you defined as ontic gratitude: I agree that there is an intuition of gratitude toward a person who created something, and toward that ontic relationship. But where does the leap come from that a person needs to sacrifice his life for it? That is certainly not part of the intuition, even toward parents—which is also both philosophical gratitude and ontic gratitude, as you wrote. I’m pretty sure no person has an intuition to give up his life for that, and not even simply to sacrifice his way of life for it. Religion demands a complete change of lifestyle, and that is already not part of the intuition. The intuition says, at most, to leave some respect for religion and for symbolic parts of the tradition, no more—in my opinion.
Have a good week!
Answer
First of all, who said you have to sacrifice your life? Maybe in fact you do not. Each person should decide for himself whether his obligation justifies that, and how far it goes for him.
Second, there is a difference between an ontic obligation to one’s parents and an obligation to the One who created the entire world.
We risk our lives in various circumstances (such as war), and not only in the Torah context (where it hardly happens at all, certainly nowadays).
Discussion on Answer
And it also isn’t possible that God commands creatures with punishments and obligation, when all His authority to command is some sort of moral feeling—something some people feel and some do not, and even those who do feel it do not mean to enslave their entire lives because of it.
[In the past, if a king redeemed a slave, it was legitimate for the slave to dedicate his life to serving him. But in our time, human freedom is an elementary value, and the reason of “I brought you out of the land of Egypt,” even if it happened today, is not a sufficient justification].
Assaf, the Torah certainly commands it, and from its perspective it is proper to sacrifice one’s life in the relevant circumstances. But your consideration is based on the degree of trust you have in the system. Each person according to his own criteria.
Eliezer, if in your opinion it isn’t possible, then the next time you serve as God, don’t command it.
Yes, but I assume God is wise enough to think about what reasons mortal human beings would have to listen to Him, and here it seems like He missed the point…
As for the question, then, what is the boundary where one can play with intuition, and up to where the Torah obligates me—I’d be happy to get an answer… (Mainly because from what you write in the book it seems there is some universal intuition, and whoever doesn’t grasp it is like a blind person… so I’d be glad to know your position.)
This is not a matter of wisdom. It is a matter of human choice and judgment. I’ve already written several times that I have no criteria for questions like these, and there is no need for them either. And even if there were, they would be based on common sense and intuition.
Isn’t there some conception that a person is not the owner of his life? Rather, more in the direction that his life was entrusted to him for a purpose (so seemingly he is the owner after all, no?)
Although I don’t fully understand what exactly is meant by that—probably because I don’t live in a time of slavery—wouldn’t that do a better job of answering the claim that a person is obligated to give up his life?
Conceptions are all very nice. The question is why a person should act in accordance with those conceptions.
First of all… the Torah commands this, to sacrifice one’s life in certain situations. If it knows there is no reason we should be obligated to do so, why did it command it? Second, I’m not talking only about sacrificing life in the physical sense, but also in the mental sense. Clearly religion asks for a change in one’s whole way of life… And if in your opinion one does not need to accept it in full, then up to where? Is this supposed to be measured by personal intuition—when it is too great a sacrifice and when it is not? And regarding the distinction between parents and the Creator of the world, what difference does it make? Both created me. And even if one senses some difference, the obligation toward the Master of the Universe comes from an intuition that, as I wrote, does not apply in many respects even without the comparison to parents.