Q&A: Is There a Moral Problem with Eating Honey? And Do Plants Feel Pain?
Is There a Moral Problem with Eating Honey? And Do Plants Feel Pain?
Question
Hello and blessings. I became vegan בעקבות things you wrote, and I wanted to ask whether, in your opinion, the honey industry abuses bees, and whether they can even feel pain at all. I’ve also seen conflicting views regarding plants’ ability to feel pain and the implications of that, and I’d be glad to hear your approach to these matters.
Answer
Hello. I’m very glad to hear that. I have to say honestly that you’re stronger than I am. I haven’t managed to become vegan; I got stuck at vegetarian-plus.
I don’t think there is a scientific way to answer your questions. Pain-like responses do not necessarily indicate an actual sensation of pain. From my impression, regarding plants this sounds far-fetched to me. But when it comes to animals, I have no way of knowing where the line runs, if there is one at all.
Discussion on Answer
On the Animals YouTube channel there’s a video of Rabbi Dr. Daniel Sperber speaking out against the abuse, and there’s also a book by Rabbi Avraham Stav called “Jewish Vegetarianism” that goes in the direction of supporting vegetarianism and veganism.
There’s a YouTube channel of Rabbi Asa Kasher where he talks about veganism as a religious obligation.
Only “Rabbi”?! Our master and teacher, the great eminent rabbi, to whom no secret is unknown…
I know the sources, and that’s respectable.
What bothers me is the deafening silence in most of the religious and Haredi public, especially their leaders.
I always assumed that the religious public was supposed to lead in everything connected to helping the weak, all the more so its leaders, and that’s where my bewilderment comes from.
The anger is doubled when I see the demonstrations over other nonsense in these communities.
They can demonstrate against Angel over some silliness, or over the evacuation of three houses in Ma’aleh Mikhmas behind Mount Moriah, but over the terrible abuse of animals—absolutely not.
You always assumed—and you were mistaken. I see no reason there should be any difference. Morality is no different between the communities, nor is the commitment to it.
Sometimes it’s actually the opposite, and that’s natural too: the religious public has more values to be concerned with (the whole of Jewish law, beyond morality), so it’s no wonder they’re occupied with many other things. Someone whose world contains only morality naturally focuses on that. A similar point was already made in Ran’s homilies, Homily 11, and by Maharal in Be’er HaGolah, second well.
Of course there’s good reason to assume that, and it’s even the expected conclusion.
A. Because of halakhic values. In our case—causing suffering to animals is Torah-level / of biblical origin, or at least rabbinic. (I didn’t write about vegetarianism, only about preventing abuse.)
B. The religious public studies ethics / morality and tries (in its own telling) to improve its character traits, and it’s pretty clear that helping the weak is part of that.
Gabriel, I think you meant Asa Keisar.
I don’t know of a single modern ethical theory that justifies moral treatment of animals to the same degree as human beings. This is just nonsense from media people… All philosophical ethical theories, from the beginning until today, do not give equal status to humans and animals. (Even from an evolutionary standpoint this is a mistaken claim: man, as the most developed creature, harnesses the less developed creatures for his needs.) I’m asking for a quote from a serious non-religious thinker from the last twenty years who equates animals with human beings.
Have you read Peter Singer?
Peli, are you sure you’re on the right website? It’s very recommended to read before commenting.
And by the way, of course there are such people. But why is that important or interesting?
Even Peter Singer, as is well known, doesn’t completely equate animals with human beings.
It’s beyond me why there are almost no rabbis who criticize the terrible abuse of animals. On the other hand, rabbis also let a thief like Deri lead a gang in the Knesset, so there really aren’t any expectations from a significant portion of the rabbis.