חדש באתר: NotebookLM עם כל תכני הרב מיכאל אברהם

On Intellectualism, Greatness in Torah, and Wisdom (Column 655)

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“Any Torah scholar who lacks discernment—a carcass is better than he.”

(Vayikra Rabbah 1:15)

“The sharper the mind, the bigger the blunder.”

(lefûm ḥurfa shibsh’tâ; Bava Metzia 92b)

In the previous column I discussed the virtues and shortcomings of intellectuality. I analyzed it through paradoxical situations in which an intuitive claim stands opposite a logical argument. I noted there that intellectuals tend to dismiss intuition and common sense and to give great weight to logical and philosophical arguments, whereas ordinary people tend to weight intuition and common sense more heavily. Hence George Orwell’s remark that there are ideas so foolish that only intellectuals could believe in them, and in the Sages’ phrase cited above: “The sharper the mind, the bigger the blunder.” I explained there that the proper path is the middle way, in which both sides are taken into account and a decision between them is made according to a second-order intuition (what strikes us as more convincing). It is not right to grant a sweeping a priori preference to either side.

I concluded the previous column with an implication concerning the rabbinic distinction between lamdanim (analytical scholars) and poskim (decisors), and explained that the lamdanim are intellectuals whereas the poskim are balebatim (practical laypeople). Here too the proper path is the middle way: do not grant an a priori preference to either side; in each case, discuss the matter on its merits. In this column I will try, using that distinction, to explain several pathologies in Haredi modes of thought and conduct. My basic claim is that Haredi thinking is “intellectualist.” Do not be misled by this: I do not mean that Haredi thinkers/publicists/rabbis are intellectuals. Far from it. An intellectual—apart from sometimes having childish modes of thought as I described in the previous column—is also equipped with broad knowledge, a wide education, and open-mindedness. None of these exist in Haredi thinking. What we have here is not intellectuality but intellectualism—intellectuality only in its shortcomings (like the difference between science and scientism). Gabriel already noted this in a comment to the previous column, and I replied that I agree and would explain it more here.

I will preface by saying that the description presented here is, of course, generalizing and broad-brush, as is the way of any theoretical analysis. Yet I think it captures a very essential component of Haredi conduct and thinking. So as you read, don’t immediately hang on to counterexamples. Of course you will find some. I suggest you try to consider whether the features I describe here are in fact typical of Haredi conduct. I am convinced they are.

Haredi intellectualism: the relationship between “the people in the fields” and the beit midrash

I have brought here in the past (see columns 277, 422, 501, 565 and others) my interpretation of the halachic rule that a decree which does not spread among the majority of the public is nullified. My claim was that this is not a compromise with reality but a criterion for truth. The fact that most of the public does not adopt such a decree indicates that something is wrong with it—that it is not halachically correct. The assumption is that what is decided in the beit midrash must receive feedback from the street, from “the people in the fields.” Why? Because the determinations of the beit midrash are intellectual and thus sometimes detached from common sense and intuition. They can be the product of a brilliant, consistent logical structure—very reasonable and persuasive—but not necessarily correct in the real world. In order to determine that the beit-midrash determination is correct for practical reality (and the assumption is that Torah is meant to be applied in the world—“the Torah was not given to the ministering angels”), it must be passed through the crucible of the balebos, the simple person. He can tell us whether the intellectual determination “makes sense,” or whether it is a brilliant idea with no connection to reality and truth.

In those columns I cited Rabbi Beni Lau’s claim that in recent generations religious leadership is generally given to yeshivah heads rather than to rabbis of communities. He argues that roshei yeshivah are accustomed to building magnificent logical edifices, and their young and talented students evaluate them by consistency, originality, and intellectual sparkle. That is the way of the young. But community rabbis speak before a more mature public, and there if they say something implausible—even if it is consistent, brilliant, and very logical—they immediately receive feedback that it does not “make sense.” Therefore, the thinking of a rabbi is more appropriate than that of a rosh yeshivah for halachic ruling and for making decisions about the practical world.

From here we can understand the pathologies in Haredi society’s conduct. New norms are periodically generated in various batei midrash. They descend to the street, where they are supposed to be tested in the balebatish crucible. But in the Haredi world, one who does not accept the new norm is a balebos, and therefore his opinion is discounted (“the view of balebatim is the opposite of daas Torah”). Thus everyone clings to these new stringencies, and there is no feedback from “the people in the fields” back into the beit midrash to balance them. This is a process of positive feedback: every stringency is adopted without the simple folk’s screening and control. The stringencies and new norms pile up without filtration, and matters reach an absurd explosion. Haredi intellectuality, in effect, makes decisions for the public unilaterally, top-down. More precisely: the entire Haredi world becomes one big beit midrash. Everyone there thinks like intellectuals and does not let common sense and reality interfere. What is sorely lacking is the balance that the Sages insisted on when they formulated the rule that a decree which does not spread among the majority of the public is voided.[1]

No wonder that in the Haredi world the assumption is that everyone should sit in the beit midrash, and going out is only bediavad. For them there is no world outside the beit midrash. The surrounding reality is the flood, and we must all shelter in Noah’s Ark inside the batei midrash to protect us from the threatening world. As I have shown, this outlook radiates into their modes of conduct and decision-making.

Haredi intellectuality: the character of the arguments

I think anyone can notice this strange phenomenon when discussing current issues with Haredim. One hears the most bizarre arguments—perhaps logically consistent within their own frame—but barely connected to the world. In column 629 I brought several examples of such arguments regarding conscription and sharing the defense and economic burden; they reflect this phenomenon well. These are preposterous, utterly detached arguments, and often they are advanced as if they were a trump card pulled from the sleeve guaranteeing a crushing victory over all opponents. You can see such arguments and their refutations also in column 649. These arguments recur among rabbis, politicians, and ordinary kollel men and yeshivah bochurim. You can encounter them frequently on this site as well (more than once I have reached saturation with this propaganda and with the smugness and certainty with which these ridiculous arguments are repeated again and again under the pretense that they have not been answered. When they overdo it, I am forced to delete them as trolling, despite my well-known loathing for censorship).

Not infrequently I feel embarrassed in the face of such childish arguments, especially given the smugness, the triumphal crowing, and the absolute confidence of those who present them (“Look, I’ve found an argument no one has thought of—knockout!”). It is hard to know where even to begin to address them. Try to think of arguments that would persuade Zeno that there really is motion in the world. Does anyone have a way to argue this and convince him? He experiences what I experience, but he is an intellectual, and as such he presents a brilliant logical argument and is sure that reality is an illusion. With his crushing, brilliant, consistent arguments he wins the debate by knockout (he adopts “Way A” of dealing with paradoxes from the previous column: the argument trumps common sense and intuition). It does not occur to him that someone (a balebos) might reject his brilliant arguments even if he cannot put a finger on the flaw in them (“Way C” there). And certainly he does not imagine that many can explicitly point out the flaws and show that the arguments really don’t hold water (“Way B” there).

For intellectuals, analytic ability is everything. Some are endowed with dazzling analytic ability, and they are captivated by it. But intellectuality is precisely what trips them up. In the Sages’ phrase: “The sharper the mind, the bigger the blunder” (see the column’s motto), which is the Talmudic counterpart to Orwell’s dictum cited there. Haredi leadership—political, journalistic-publicistic, and rabbinic—leads Haredi society down this crooked path on the basis of these outlandish arguments. They make decisions detached from common sense and from the grassroots, present biased and/or false facts and absurd premises, and cause their flock to march after them and accept the conclusions as if they were pearls of wondrous wisdom. Everything is very consistent, but completely detached from reality and plain reason.

Moreover, the more outlandish and disconnected the claim, the more exalted and sublime it appears; then it is even easier to hang it on “daas Torah” and the profound wisdom of the gedolei hador, whose minds no mere mortal can fathom, and “one who seeks their counsel will never stumble.” This reminds me of the Rambam’s words (Guide III:31) about those who refuse to give reasons for the commandments in order to magnify God and the Torah, but in fact debase them:

Among people are those for whom giving a reason for a commandment is onerous; the best, in their view, is that no meaning at all be intelligible for a commandment or prohibition. What brings them to this is an illness they find in their souls, which they cannot articulate, namely, that if these laws have benefits in this world and therefore we were commanded concerning them, they would be as if derived from human reasoning. But when something has no intelligible meaning and brings no benefit, it must surely be from God, for human thought would never produce such a thing.

So too with us: the sense that logical reasoning is a human affair accessible to all leads to the expectation that the gedolei hador will specifically say things detached from common sense; the greater the detachment, the greater their greatness. But, continues the Rambam, the opposite is true:

It is as if, in the eyes of these feeble-minded, man is more perfect than his Maker. For man says and does what leads to an end, but God, they think, does not act so. Rather, He commands what will not benefit us and warns against what will not harm us.

Such a thought is that of the feeble-minded. Acting without reason is a deficiency, not a virtue. Decisions detached from common sense are, in many cases, mistaken decisions (though not always—sometimes the argument overcomes the intuition).

Childish thinking and conduct

We have seen that young yeshivah students evaluate ideas by their brilliance and consistency, whereas older people evaluate them by looking at reality (common sense and intuitions). Following arguments detached from common sense and reality characterizes those who have not matured (the Rambam’s “feeble-minded”). Note that a deaf-mute, an insane person, and a minor are exempt from commandments—all due to lack of daas. What does “lack of daas” mean? Does a minor lack intelligence? And what of a very smart minor who advances brilliant arguments, has completed Shas, studies mathematics at university, and understands things in depth? Beyond intelligence, mitzvah-obligation requires maturity. A minor is exempt not because he is stupid or does not understand, but mainly because he is not yet mature. Even if he understands something, he lacks the responsibility to understand its implications, what will happen if he does not do it, and to act responsibly accordingly. A child will also follow a logical argument without noticing that it is detached from common sense and reality. He is captivated by the charm of logic and not really aware that there is reality in the world.

There is another feature of childish thinking: egocentrism. A child sees mainly himself. For him, his entire environment is merely a collection of mannequin-like targets that form the backdrop for his own conduct. His father and mother are meant to serve him; their entire concern is to care for him and supply his needs. He cannot grasp that they have lives of their own unrelated to him. More generally, a child evaluates every action and thought by its consequences for him, and analyzes everything someone does as if everything relates to him. It is hard for him to step into another’s shoes and see things from a different point of view. Therefore, it is also hard for him to display true empathy. Empathy entails understanding the other’s perspective and stepping into his shoes—very difficult for a child. Part of a child’s education is to bring him to understand the other and internalize that there even is an “other” with thoughts and desires of his own. He does not understand that not every time he is hurt was it done in order to hurt him; sometimes people act due to their own considerations and interests, unrelated to him. Not everything in the world relates to him.

A clever child will also develop all sorts of theories that explain why people acted as they did—all centered on his own point of view. He is the center of the world and everything revolves around him. He cannot understand that other people have worlds of their own and considerations not necessarily connected to him. His theories can be coherent and—so it seems to him—persuasive, and it is hard for him to see that this is very detached from what is actually happening in the world around him. His bubble is very intellectualist, coherent, and persuasive—but very detached from reality. Reality is complicated, and when one is aware of how it works, it is hard to reach a coherent understanding, for perhaps there simply is none. But for the child everything is coherent and clear; everything that is done is either for him or against him.

The childishness of Haredi thinking

It seems to me the description of childishness above can help explain Haredi modes of thought and conduct. I have already written in the past about Rabbi Kanievsky’s decisions during Corona (see column 305). We are dealing with a person who had no clue how epidemics spread or what an exponential process is (see column 290 and more). Add to that the notion that Torah study protects instead of natural measures (medicine, the army, etc.), and you have irresponsible, negligent conduct suited to children who have not yet matured. He relied on a dubious Talmudic passage and on slogans about Torah study, and that sufficed for him to make life-and-death decisions—contrary to what reality indicated and to the opinion of experts in the field. No wonder that much blood is on his hands.

I am sure that now the familiar excuses will arrive: in the end it turned out they were right and saw far ahead (to my understanding, absolutely not), and the experts were wrong (oh, and they did it intentionally to kill us all), for by definition one who seeks the elders’ counsel never stumbles. Again, this is intellectualism that maintains that theory trumps facts and reality. I see no point in entering the question of whether the directives at that time made sense and were reasonable in hindsight. It is enough for me that they were the best that could be done given the state of knowledge at the time, and that is what the experts determined (even though, as usual, there were disagreements among them). In such a situation, that is what we should have done. To ignore this and instruct the public otherwise—that is childish irresponsibility. You have some detached arguments that seem to you very persuasive, and on that basis you allow yourself to ignore reality entirely with some blind confidence in your own rightness. And when an entire society follows ninety-year-old “children” who issue directives on the basis of detached intellectualism—this is a recipe for disaster.

Or take another example, from just these days: the Haredi rabbis’ crusade led by Rabbi Dov Landau in the U.S. They go from place to place and cynically, absurdly, and detachedly slander the government and society in Israel, claiming they act out of hatred of Torah and of Haredim and merely persecute them. Thus they call on donors to save them with cries of gevald. Pogroms in the Land of Israel—truly! Persecution of Torah in the streets. I am not speaking of the slander and falsehood in this. Nor am I speaking of the distorted, delusional, baseless conceptions they express concerning the meaning of Torah study, the army, the economy, etc. Their conception regarding conscription has no foundation—neither in sources nor in logic and facts (see column 649). I am also not speaking of their refusal to allow even those who do not study to be drafted (the cat is finally out of the bag)—even less justifiable and even less reflective of “persecution of Torah” by secular people and by the Supreme Court. Let us say I am prepared to accept all this nonsense and rubbish. What is inconceivable to me is the inability of those rabbis to step into the other’s shoes—just like newborn infants.

Assuming my readers have already passed the age of two, try to look at the situation through the eyes of a reasonable person who understands reality. The facts are that from the secular perspective, Haredim constitute a growing percentage of the population, most of whom eat and do not do—i.e., do not bear the burden. They do not carry the defense burden, nor the economic burden, and they demand significant resources that do not return to the market nor contribute anything to it. No wonder that in their “heretical fleshly eyes” it appears that within not many years this will constitute an existential threat to the state, and it must be stopped now. All this while Haredim participate in government, make decisions, and of course demand more and more resources—ignoring the cruel war currently underway, which may expand and truly endangers us existentially—and in which they have no share. That is the secular point of view, even if you as a Haredi do not accept any of it. Agreed? Then how can someone who successfully completed kindergarten fail to understand the secular (and religious-Zionist) reaction, and attribute it to hatred of Haredim and persecution of Torah? Again, I am not speaking of the substantive disagreement—on which Rabbi Landau expresses a delusional position—but of his childishness, chiefly his inability to step into the other’s shoes. If a four-year-old child did not understand this, I would suspect a serious developmental delay. And a towering Torah scholar (I know this firsthand) over ninety, like Rabbi Landau, is unable to understand it? How does he not see that in non-Haredi eyes this is the inevitable way to view Haredi conduct—even if he himself disagrees with that view? His assertion that this is persecution testifies, a thousand testimonies over, that we are dealing with a person who thinks and behaves like a nursery-school child. And this is a leader of a public that follows him like a blind man in a chimney—after him and his detached slogans—leading us all to ruin.

This “secular” view of Haredism produced the controversial “caricature” by Shay Charka about Haredim:

I assume you remember the uproar, the offense, and the apologies. The Haredim of course accused him of antisemitism and whatnot. Offense and victimhood have always been the favorite weapons of Haredim when substantive arguments run out (and they always run out, because they have none). I must say that, to my judgment, this is not a caricature at all. A caricature is usually defined as a disproportionate exaggeration of reality. But this image is nothing but a simple snapshot of reality. Even if Rabbi Landau thinks this is not reality, I would at least expect him to be able to understand that others see it this way. This is basic empathy required even of a child.

The conclusion is that we are dealing with a man who is a brilliant lamdan, but whose grasp of reality is childish. This is a live example of the lack of correlation between maturity and intellectual sparkle. We are dealing with a person whose faith in nonsense likely stems from his being an intellectual. I can attempt to reconstruct his detached train of thought. For him there is a crushing logical argument that proves he is right:

  • Of course the Torah is true.
  • Moreover, every Jew—indeed every person—understands this within himself, for it is a simple truth (he has of course never read my arguments against this, for that is forbidden under “lo taturu”).
  • Therefore it is clear that every secular person certainly knows that Torah study (and wearing a suit, even if one is not studying) is what protects the state and brings economic prosperity.
  • Moreover, everyone also “knows” that only Haredi Torah study does this, whereas someone who is not Haredi, even if he studies Torah—and especially if he serves in the army, God forbid (even if he belongs to that small percentage who did not go there to apostatize)—contributes nothing to our protection.
  • And from here the conclusion immediately follows: if a person or institution nevertheless expects us to take part in the defense and economic burden and makes decisions accordingly, he is presumably driven by hatred of Haredim and persecution of Torah (“the hatred of the am ha’aretz for the talmid ḥacham”).
  • Q.E.D.

Admit it: this is a crushing, consistent, and wonderfully intellectualist argument. It rests on premises as solid as rock, and no wonder it is presented as if it were Sinai-given Torah. Who can argue with logic? For the intellectual, all reality is subordinated to this logical frame. Therefore there is no need to look around and try to understand what secular people actually think and why they actually object. We have a proof—so why would we need observation?! No need to think about the constraints within which the Supreme Court operates and what led it to its decision. No need to notice the unimaginable patience of the Court and of the entire public toward Haredi draft-dodging, which for many decades up to this very day has not really been stopped (the Court merely expressed an opinion about the current legal situation and said nothing about a draft law). Observation, common sense, and attention to reality are the paradox’s other side. But the Haredim have a splendid argument, which proves that all of these are wrong—end of story. From here follows the conclusion that the Court and anyone non-Haredi are simply antisemites who hate Torah and hate Haredim.

But it is not just Rabbi Landau and the colleagues in his delirious tour to spy out the lands and spread an evil report about all of us worldwide (which these days does not exactly love us). It turns out that donors abroad are indeed persuaded and donate generously (see here; since then, there has been further “progress”). How can one stand idly by when the wicked here persecute your poor brothers and stage pogroms against them for no wrongdoing?! So too with Haredi society as a whole. It conducts itself childishly and “intellectualistically,” for it chooses such a person to lead it and make decisions for it, and marches by his “ruach ha-kodesh-infused” directives completely detached from common sense. The average Haredi repeats these slogans again and again as if they were knockout arguments. The fervor in their words indicates that many of them even believe this. Fear not: after Rabbi Landau’s 120 years, there will be volumes of wonders proving how he was right about everything and understood everything better than all of us.

Note that all this describes the “moderate” part of the Haredim. The wild Jerusalem Faction that blocks our roads (with no fear of bitul Torah or of the theft involved—“It is time to act for the Lord!”) is utterly certain we are in the midst of the decrees of 1648–49. They demonstrate with great fervor (and courage—without fear of those murderous Zionists, may their name be blotted out) on the basis of complete detachment from reality. They throw out outlandish slogans about being ready to die and go to prison (of course as long as there isn’t a whiff of real danger). I long ago stopped expecting anything of that group; it is a sect whose proximity to Judaism is tenuous. But now it turns out that the differences between the two sects are not so great. The mainstream Haredi camp thinks and speaks in a very similar way. The goals and perception of reality are the same. The difference is mainly tactical: whether one may cooperate with the wicked, accursed Zionists to exploit them optimally, and how loudly to say what every yeshivah bochur knows inside the Haredi batei midrash and only occasionally slips out by mistake (see, for example, here, and more). That is the difference between the two sects, akin in my eyes to the difference between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority.

Nor have I yet spoken about their childish religious conceptions: starting with taking every source literally, just like children. It is reported in the name of the Brisker Rav that if the Sages said Mashiach will come on a white donkey, he will not come in a Mercedes or a helicopter but on a donkey—and that donkey will not be black or brown but white. The holy words of the Sages, all spoken with divine inspiration, are absolutely true; one may not budge from them. Someone decided that the Amoraim had ruach ha-kodesh—therefore one may not doubt it. From here, of course, follows that in the world of halachah and Talmud there are no disputes about reality (for if so, one side errs—God forbid). Oh, but there are such disputes? Do not bother me with facts and reality. There was also someone who decided one must wear a suit and gartel, and that becomes an article of faith (preferably with a midrash: “they did not change their dress”). Another tells us that thus our ancestors dressed in Egypt—of course, otherwise someone must have changed in the middle; let it not be spoken or mentioned. The theories are piled one atop another, creating a delusional but very tight and coherent structure. It is not tested by its connection to logic and reality. No one there is bothered by how childish such a conception of continuity and commitment to tradition is. Thus they have created a theological halachic system in which “lo tasur” applies to every rabbi in every place and time, certainly to the gedolei hador. It is clear that working for a living or engaging in other fields of knowledge is strictly forbidden (except bediavad for the weak who need livelihoods and do not understand that everything is in Heaven’s hands), and this is exactly as it has always been (for we are continuing our ancestors’ tradition). There prevail there bizarre religious metrics by which one may violate every halachic and moral prohibition in the world—but not Haredi social taboos—all with deep conviction that this sect is authentic Judaism from time immemorial. There is not a drop of critical thinking about their own principles, but a great deal of criticism of others. Thus we arrive at draft-dodging as a value and parasitism as a moral pinnacle, just as Orwell wrote: “Ignorance is strength; slavery is freedom,” etc. Sectarian attitudes like this characterize children’s thinking; they fall for any nonsense that goes in—and then it does not come out (“once it goes up, it won’t come down”). And of course anyone who dares deny these “principles of faith” is immediately excommunicated as a heretic and an apostate—as befits any self-respecting kindergarten. That is how children usually treat those who look or think differently: they ostracize them.

Now I will allow myself to enter another, particularly outlandish example: the issue of bitachon (trust in God) and hishtadlut (human effort).

More on detached conceptions: the question of bitachon and hishtadlut

I have addressed hishtadlut more than once in the past (see columns 279, 280, 281, 305, 575 and more). I return to it here because it is an excellent example of detached Haredi intellectualism. I have explained my “radical” view on the matter many times, and clarified why the slogan about divine involvement “within nature” is empty. There is no such thing, for any divine involvement is by definition a departure from nature. I further argue that since there is no indication of deviations from the laws of nature, it is reasonable, in my opinion, that there is no divine involvement (perhaps only in sporadic cases). But this is only my view; I will not insist on it here. Many have responded that I am attacking a straw man. No one, they say, truly believes our actions have no effect and that everything is in God’s hands. The common claim, they tell me, is that divine involvement also has an effect—at least in some cases—and that is what I must address. I have dealt with this more than once, but now I will ignore that discussion, for I wish to present a selection of quotations from leading Haredi thinkers on the matter, and you can judge how much they recognize our influence on reality—and thus how connected to reality they are.

We are dealing with a collection of categorical assertions that faith means treating reality as an illusion. Believers are to be “intellectuals” and ignore their intuitions and experiences. We must focus on the logical and theological argument (“there is none besides Him,” “everything is in His hands,” etc.), and common-sense conceptions are the counsel of the evil inclination. This is the posture of a mystical sect that sees reality as a challenge—an illusion to be overcome—nothing more. This is an exalted expression of the Haredi intellectualism I described. The following quotations are taken from an article by my friend Rabbi Yehoshua Pfeffer, editor of the journal “Tzarikh Iyun”. Here is the first:

Rabbi Aharon Schwab, mashgiach of Yeshivat Beit Meir, published several volumes of va’adim and lectures given to his students. In one volume (“Sha’arei HaAliyah,” p. 157), he writes that when we pray “we must clarify to ourselves that all the practical actions we perform do not bring us any result; at most they are a form of ‘labor’ decreed upon us as a duty of hishtadlut following Adam’s sin. There is no connection between the ‘labor’ and actions and the outcomes brought about by the Blessed Creator.”

“There is no connection.” Meaning: if you take acetaminophen, don’t think the fever’s drop is thanks to the pill. Taking the pill is merely a religious duty. The fever goes down—or not—only by a direct divine decision (for some reason He always decides the fever should drop). No wonder there is no point in studying chemistry or medicine. Even if they give you cough syrup, your fever will drop only if God decides (“He who told vinegar to burn…”). You have fulfilled your duty of hishtadlut even with cough syrup.

Rabbi Pfeffer writes of this:

[…] It seems that R. Schwab saw nothing explosive (or even new) in his words. The premise that earthly action does not affect the outcome he received from his own teachers, and it became accepted and widespread in Haredi education. It is very likely he never questioned it.

And here is another—this time R. Chaim Shmuelevitz and the Chafetz Chaim:

In the book “Sichot Mussar” (1971), recording the talks of R. Chaim Shmuelevitz ztz”l, it is stated: “Quantity is nothing at all; each person receives what he is to receive and what has been decreed for me to receive.” In the name of the Chafetz Chaim he even compared one who toils for his livelihood to a person hurrying on his way and pushing with his hands against the walls of the train car in which he rides. To think there is a causal link between them is absolute folly.

“Absolute folly”—no less. This strongly recalls David Hume’s analysis of causality: that the principle of causation has no empirical source, and the link between cause and effect is merely a hypothesis (true or not) of the intellect. Let us continue.

If R. Chaim Shmuelevitz and the Chafetz Chaim are not enough for you—here is R. Dessler:

R. Eliyahu Eliezer Dessler ztz”l, the first mashgiach of Ponovezh, expanded this approach, decrying excessive hishtadlut and stating there is no benefit in it: “A person will never gain more because he exerts himself more” (“Mikhtav Me’Eliyahu,” vol. I, essay on Bitachon and Hishtadlut). Nature, he writes, is not a real thing; its entire purpose is to mislead man and distance him from his trust in God: “There is no substance in nature at all; it is only a test, for it is the will of the Holy One, blessed be He, alone that acts.” That is, although it seems that hishtadlut helps, the truth is it has no substance. However, a person may not rely on a miracle; he must make minimal effort—“the least effort”—to ensure that his sustenance does not arrive miraculously. As an example, he cites R. Zundel of Salant, who contented himself with buying a lottery ticket only, “for if I win, it can be attributed to the way of nature.”

Want more? Here is the Steipler:

“The rule,” the Steipler wrote similarly, “is that all human actions and stratagems will not help even the slightest to add or detract from what was decreed upon him on Rosh Hashanah” (“Birkat Peretz,” Parashat Shemot). R. Reuven Melamed, a leading student of R. Yechezkel Levenstein ztz”l, summarized: “The falsehood of hishtadlut—besides not helping, it also harms” (“Melitz Yosher,” Parashat Vayishlach).

All existence, R. Dessler emphasizes, is a constant product of God’s will. He, and none besides Him. The result of his approach—and of the other gedolei Torah above—is an ideology that utterly empties action in the secular sphere of value. All “hishtadlut,” all action within the secular realm, is merely a “fine,” in the Ramchal’s language in “Mesillat Yesharim”—a consequence of Adam’s sin that we are forced to pay. In inner truth it has no benefit or meaning.

In the next section, Rabbi Pfeffer sums up what follows from these quotations and writes:

The approach above—certainly when it becomes widespread and accepted, as has happened in Haredi education—is quite new. One can indeed find sources decrying excessive hishtadlut insofar as it reflects diminished faith in God, like Chazal’s critique of Joseph’s efforts in prison (“Because Joseph relied on the butler to remember him, he was required to remain imprisoned two more years”). But it will be very hard to find assertions that hishtadlut changes nothing; that it is merely a fine renewed with Adam’s sin; that it has no substance. To the best of my study, such an approach is absent entirely from Chazal and the Rishonim; to the contrary, many sources and the whole thrust of Chazal indicate the very opposite.

Despite the lack of foundation and the blatant lack of logic, this monstrous theological chimera has taken root in Haredi thought—and in the religious world more generally—and today one who deviates from it must answer for his “weak faith.”[2] Well, it is understandable that these arguments are bizarre and detached enough to be considered the deep daas Torah of gedolei hador. No wonder they are indeed taken as such.

In his article, Rabbi Pfeffer—characteristically gently—points to the need to “update” the conception of hishtadlut and bitachon due to “the thought of our generation” (not, God forbid, because these are nonsense that never had any place). The outlandish bundle of quotations presented here—like those you can hear and read from almost any Haredi mashgiach—shows you the nature of the prevailing conception. It looks like a mystical sect of children who follow a pack of Pied Pipers; instead of flutes they hold a theological Mishnah composed of a bundle of detached and bizarre logical arguments (in this case not even consistent), by virtue of which they instruct their flock to ignore reality. To consider reality, in their eyes, is merely the counsel of the evil inclination. In the Haredi world, everyone is an “intellectual,” a denizen of the beit midrash, and therefore they do not let reality confuse them. As befits true intellectuals—already described by George Orwell (cited in the previous column’s motto)—in a conflict between theory/arguments and reality/intuition, the upper hand goes to the arguments. And reality? Let it go to hell.

Note that solipsism—a philosophical view that does not accept the world’s existence—is considered in philosophy an anecdote, a kind of intellectual pastime. It is a hypothetical possibility whose value lies mainly in its very existence and inner consistency, but it has no real significance relative to the world. In the Haredi world, by contrast—as you can see from the quotations above—solipsism is the plain reality. Realism is heresy and the counsel of the evil inclination—not to mention science, as Rabbi Wolff (of the well-known seminary) writes at the beginning of his book: “Science is false and our Torah is true.” Once upon a time the Misnagdim (Lithuanians) held that tzimtzum is literal and only the Chassidim opposed it; today everyone is a Chassid (though not exactly men of action). This is a clear example of Haredi intellectualism: the hypothetical logical argument is reality, and there is none besides it. Direct observation of reality—even when it ostensibly contradicts the logical argument—is not to be mentioned. Only a heretic like me dares pay attention to reality. In his article, Rabbi Pfeffer offers Haredim a revolutionary possibility: the courage to recognize that there is also reality in the world. Lo, what a thing!

Incidentally, note that this outlandish conception, in Rabbi Landau’s eyes, is so simple and self-evident that every person—Haredi or not—is expected to understand and accept it. And if, perchance, I do not think that Torah study and wearing black protect us, but rather the army and the economy—and especially if I even suggest limiting them for the sake of army service and contribution to the economy—then clearly I am merely a vile antisemite driven by hatred of Torah and of Haredim (synonymous terms, of course).

Can one truly aspire to a covenant or partnership with such a delusional group?! If so, then only because it seems they themselves do not really believe it, for none of them actually act that way (see my columns above; see also column 649 about how people actually behave—despite “Torah protects and saves”—when it concerns the individual). In their inner consciousness, they delude themselves that they do believe it and, at most, occasionally suffer from a weakness of faith—God have mercy—that brings them to recognize that reality exists. Truly a worrisome weakness. This is the phenomenon of “the heart does not reveal to the mouth,” for who wants to consider himself a heretic?! And certainly the Chafetz Chaim should not say it aloud (see column 575 on suppressed beliefs).

This tension between suppressed beliefs (that our actions are decisive) and conscious, official beliefs (that God does everything and we have no influence) is not apparent in people’s daily conduct. Haredi people act entirely like secular people, solving problems in the usual way (hishtadlut may be false, but if it won’t help, it won’t harm). There the suppressed belief rules; therefore one goes to the doctor and chases after the best physician to the ends of the earth, and seeks to obtain funds and financing by any means—to sustain this exalted “trust” (certainly not to go to work). I once heard of a Chassidic group that requires every bochur to raise money, under the rubric “A man is obligated to teach his son a trade” (Kiddushin 30b). That is in the individual’s daily life. But in the big decisions touching directly on ideology and on Haredi society—conscription, education, joining the workforce—there decisions are made according to the conscious (illusory) beliefs: diligence is false and our Torah is true; whoever thinks our actions have any causal link to outcomes is a despicable heretic. The reason for this difference is that in the big cases, decisions are made publicly; thus they are made with awareness and accountability to ideological and theological principles. When Haredi individuals or a Haredi group act consciously, they will not dare say aloud that hishtadlut is what determines.

On the conscious level, hishtadlut is false—a punishment imposed upon us since Adam’s sin—and of course it has no causal effect on what will happen to us. In life itself, of course, it is another matter. There one winks and moves on—stringent indeed about the “duty” of hishtadlut and pursuing the best doctor, despite the fact that all this has no effect on our fate, of course. Living by an ideology one does not really believe is childish. Children think they will run their lives by pure, logical principles; they do not understand that life is stronger than all ideologies.

And perhaps all these are “holy lies”?

At some point it occurred to me that perhaps all these Jews are simply lying. As intelligent people they surely know this is nonsense, but they write and say it to educate the public to trust in God. Perhaps they wish to balance a public error (no trust in God) by its opposite (absolute trust), hoping the public will arrive at the middle way. On this proposal, all these are “holy lies” rather than the true beliefs of those thinkers. This might save these statements from the bleak conclusion that emerges from the picture I have described—but I doubt it is true. In fact, if I wish to judge them favorably, I am torn: should I present them as childish “intellectuals” detached from reality and common sense, or as liars for a good cause? I do not know which is better.

As for me, I am principledly opposed to holy lies (see column 21). But in any case, even if this is holy deceit, it amazes me that these lies work on the public. The Haredi public buys them and lets itself be led astray—and drags all of us with it to the brink. Thanks to these lies, Haredi leaders travel the world and spread an evil report about the land, and even merit generous donations from naïve people. Thanks to them people go out to hysterical demonstrations and cry out detached slogans as if a sword were at their throats. Even if it is only holy deceit, it seems these figures fell into the pit they themselves dug.

Note: between Haredim and Hardalim

We have seen that one Haredi hallmark is ignoring reality and clinging to detached theoretical arguments and structures. This is Haredi intellectualism, which also has a childish dimension. I will now briefly note where and how the national-religious ḥarda”l stream fits this picture.

Unlike Haredim, they ostensibly do look at reality and attend to it. On the contrary: their entire concern is to examine it and explain it using theological models. Is this redemption? At what stage are we? How should we relate to everything that happens, to every person, idea, or movement? Yet regardless of what happens, they will never draw any conclusion leading to a change in their basic conceptions. They will always explain reality in terms of their theory, and never consider switching paradigms when reality does not fit. It always fits; and if not—they force it a bit. In their view the Third Temple cannot be destroyed; redemption is on the way; everything follows the deterministic path ascending to the House of God; the rest are mere perturbations of this foreknown process. Even if we sink into the abyss, they will explain it as a local dip for the sake of ascent. If President Katsav is convicted of rape, they send him a letter of encouragement. His conviction is part of the divine plan, or the work of the Sitra Achra (the counter-revolutionary forces—in communist terms—or the Antichrist, in Christian terms), but it cannot erode their full confidence in him. On the contrary: the court that convicted him is an arm of the demonic forces of darkness (the New Israel Fund, the EU, LGBTQ organizations, and the Council of Elders of Global Progressivism). If there is an agreement with Egypt under which Sinai is to be handed over—so what? “It shall not be!” It simply will not happen, for it contradicts the theory—that is, what must occur. Reality is wholly subordinated to theory, as befits intellectualists.

This means that, unlike Haredim, the Hardalim indeed attend to reality in a very particular and intensive way—but they never learn from it. It does not change their conceptions one whit. In this sense we are dealing with the same childish intellectualism I described among Haredim. The difference is that Haredim ignore reality whereas Hardalim obsessively explain it. The common denominator is that the reverse process never occurs: from reality to theory. Between the two sides of the paradox, in both camps the theoretical argument always trumps reality and common sense.

Who is a gadol baTorah?

After writing these things, it occurred to me that I do not recall statements by Torah scholars from the non-Hardali religious-Zionist camp that struck me as such outlandish, detached nonsense. There are certainly many statements one can argue about. Some will see them as heresy, lack of faith in sages, lack of commitment to Torah, and so on—lavish compliments. But nonsense of this magnitude I truly do not recall. When you compare this with so many outlandish, detached statements from the Haredi (and Hardali) side, it raises questions.

Naturally this arouses the question: who deserves the title “great in Torah”? Who is a talmid ḥacham? As in the childish arguments over “who has more Torah scholars and who is greater”—Haredim or religious-Zionists? Hardalim or non-Hardalim? It is quite clear that Haredim have many more certified Ketzot reciters. There are people there with broad Torah knowledge, and some have excellent analytic ability. But I think there are few rabbis in the Haredi world whom I would regard as great in Torah. To be great in Torah, knowledge is not enough—not even analytic ability. One also needs common sense and sound reasoning. One must be attentive to reality and to life and understand them well—and perhaps it is better not to be cloistered within the four cubits of halachah.

I have written more than once that there is great value in figures who are cloistered in their rooms and devote themselves entirely to Torah and its study (“everyone needs those who sin inadvertently”—see Horayot 14a and parallels)—but only so long as they and we know their place and do not let them make decisions, issue halachic rulings, or lead the public. When they themselves do not understand that they must not engage in such domains, and enter arenas where they have not a whit of understanding, their value as Torah scholars greatly diminishes. When they express ideas in matters of thought at the level of small children—ideas that receive an aura of holiness via the speakers’ authority—when they make outlandish, irresponsible decisions and grasp their surroundings with shocking childishness—they demean themselves, their Torah, and all of us. This is a terrible chillul Hashem—precisely “a Torah scholar who lacks discernment” (see the motto of this column). In short, what is written here should provoke new (and gloomy) thoughts regarding what Torah greatness is and who are gedolei Torah.

[1] I do not mean to say that all Haredim are intellectuals. There are very few of those among them. But they conduct themselves in an intellectualist manner.

[2] In the second book of my trilogy I cited an article by Rabbi Shmuel Ariel, “Is Every Event Directed from Heaven?”, which aims to show that Chazal and the commentators also include views that not everything is in God’s hands—only some things. Several of the sources in Chazal and the Rishonim are cited later in Rabbi Pfeffer’s article. If one needs an article to make this point, you can understand what the prevailing view is.

Discussion

Moti (2024-07-03)

The article deals with a critique of intellectualism and the way Haredi thinking is conducted today, while addressing the distinction between talmudic scholars and halakhic decisors and its effects on conduct in Haredi society. The author emphasizes the importance of balancing logical arguments and intuition, and criticizes Haredi thinking as detached from reality, comparing it to an extreme intellectualism that neglects common sense and actual reality.

The author brings a variety of examples לכך, including the Haredi attitude toward decrees that are not accepted by most of the public, the choice of yeshiva heads as leaders, and the approach toward human effort and trust in God. He emphasizes that the Haredi approach is marked by childish, egocentric thinking detached from reality, as expressed in decisions disconnected from common sense and from the reality on the ground.

The article presents a sharp critique of the basic conceptions and assumptions of the Haredim, as well as of their inability to put themselves in another’s shoes and understand the perspective of secular Israelis. The author also notes the difference between the Haredim and the Hardalim, with the latter relating to reality but not learning from it in order to change their principled outlooks.

In conclusion, the author argues that the criteria for Torah greatness and Torah scholars should be reconsidered, emphasizing the need for common sense and sound judgment in addition to Torah knowledge and analytical ability.

L (2024-07-03)

This post raises questions for me about the moral judgment of this sector.
1) The rabbi wrote that they have a repressed belief whereby they rationally understand that their nonsense is baseless (and one indication of this is that they go to a doctor, etc.). If so, when we judge them, doesn’t that in effect mean they are wicked? After all, this is not judging a person “according to his own view,” because perhaps their whole private conduct is actually an indication that this is not really their view at all, and then we have straightforward wickedness here?
2) Even under the assumption that this really is their view, and they really do believe in these absurd foundational assumptions: the rabbi wrote about childish egotism and the inability to put themselves in the shoes of the general public. Doesn’t that also express wickedness, even under the assumption that they indeed accept all the basic assumptions of Haredism?
Normatively speaking, are they altogether like children taken captive?

Michi (2024-07-03)

I don’t understand. Who is this summary intended for?

Michi (2024-07-03)

I think so, yes—at least most of them are like children taken captive. It is a wicked and distorted society, but someone who grows up in it is a child taken captive. Unconscious views are something we probably all have, and still one cannot judge a person by them. Both because they are unconscious, and because that person believes (in his conscious mind) that those views are the evil inclination’s counsel or his own weakness.

Shlomi (2024-07-03)

I once thought that the definition of Haredism is serving the Shulchan Arukh instead of serving the Holy One, blessed be He. In fact it is also Torah taking precedence over proper worldly conduct, in the senses you show in the column.

Gabriel (2024-07-03)

I once saw a ruling permitting one to call “Ezra LaMarpeh” on the holy Sabbath in order to consult about which doctor to go to.
When it comes to a Haredi person’s own body, he does not make do with simple effort, like a secular person who goes to the hospital or doctor, but has to find who is the best/most suitable doctor for what hurts him.

That ruling always seemed bizarre to me, because there are too many “perhapses” here – who says there is a difference in treatment among doctors that could affect success? And even if there is a difference, who says Rabbi Firer will recommend the right doctor for you, whether because of lack of knowledge or mistake (especially since I have heard more than once that the recommended list depends on who “donates” more money to Rabbi Firer)? And even if you say there is one doctor who alone can save you and Rabbi Firer gives you the right name, who says he is available to treat you specifically?

David (2024-07-03)

When are you going to write about the Israeli left?

Makli (2024-07-03)

Maybe it’s an AI product.

Itai (2024-07-03)

I think the best example for the claim in the column is their empty threats to leave the country if they are drafted.
For the average Haredi, leaving the country is a process equivalent to taking a bus from Jerusalem to Bnei Brak. They really imagine themselves boarding a plane and landing in some Western country of their choice, and there things will simply work themselves out. The various obstacles posed by the annoying entity called reality are not a consideration at all. And yes, they believe this completely—they are not pretending.

Gabriel (2024-07-03)

There is nothing more left-wing than Haredism, which follows Rabbi Marx’s doctrine – from each (non-Haredi) according to his ability, to each (Haredi) according to his needs.
In the socialist state that the Haredim love there are generous allowances, free medical care, free education, housing assistance, subsidized daycare for children, subsidized public transportation, and more, according to the communist model.

Avromsheye Indig (2024-07-03)

Funny—when I was in Slabodka, when R. Chaim Kanievsky became the leader of the Haredi public, R. Dov argued that R. Chaim could not be a leader because a leader has to know at least how to pay an electric bill; to which R. Chaim’s son answered that R. Chaim leads us through divine inspiration, and at that R. Dov twisted his mouth.

Itaii (2024-07-03)

This is a wicked and distorted society really not only toward the secular, may God preserve us.
This is a society that on the one hand sees the world outside the study hall as Sodom and Gomorrah and the Flood and all the rest, and sends its wives and daughters into that same flood in order to maintain Noah’s Ark.
This is a society in which, until a little over a decade ago, babies raised in the Lithuanian community were, with the encouragement of their yeshiva heads, sent to extort apartments from people to whom, poor things, a daughter had been born.
What I’m saying is that they don’t behave this way only toward secular people, but also among themselves.

David (2024-07-03)

First of all, what the Haredim have is not socialism but the commandment “Love your neighbor as yourself,” which is not socialism but capitalism, in which the individual is like a cell and the collective is a multicellular organism (of the female sex). So every investment of the individual in the collective is an investment in himself. That is, the expenditure will also pay off for him materially at some point. At the giving of the Torah this organism was created through a covenant between the collective and the Holy One, blessed be He, and the covenant created a spiritual-biological reality. The Shekhinah (the Kingship of the world of Atzilut), by the way, is the soul of the organism (and therefore the organism itself), and the Holy One, blessed be He (the Zeir Anpin of the world of Atzilut), is its husband. Indeed communism is the essence of “Love your neighbor as yourself,” except that it is altruistic communism (that is, backed by God and His help, and contingent on correcting selfish human nature), unlike Marxist communism, which was secular, materialist, and selfish, and therefore was the greatest religion of evil ever, and because of that it collapsed.

Besides, I meant today’s left, which is like a herd charging (toward the abyss) after the hollow and insane jurists in particular and the rest of the academics in the sciences of nonsense in general. Let him write about the intellectualism over there. There, most of them are religious pseudo-intellectuals of the religion of emptiness and equality.

Yossi (2024-07-03)

I suggest you relate to the Haredim with at least the same compassion with which you relate to secular people (assuming you are not one). The inability to understand that they are genuinely and sincerely convinced of their position is no different from the inability of some Haredim to understand that the heretics are genuinely and sincerely convinced of theirs.

If the method is correct, that is another matter. But belief in it stems not from wickedness but from a lack of independent and critical thinking.

Yisrael (2024-07-03)

There is some truth in this definition.

But it is worth remembering that according to this, the definition of Modern Orthodoxy is serving yourself and your desire to integrate into Western society. Both the Shulchan Arukh and the Holy One, blessed be He, are outside the picture.

Moshe (2024-07-03)

Your message combines hatred of Haredim and slander against a great benefactor in a truly astonishing way. The main thing is that you still have enough love left for the wicked and the haters of religion.

Gabriel (2024-07-03)

What is unclear to you?
The money that sustains the Haredim does not come from the commandment “Love your neighbor as yourself,” but from taxes that the socialist government collected from the working public (from each according to his ability) and transferred to the Haredim (to each according to his needs).

The money was collected by force according to the communist principle that the work of a person’s hands belongs to the government.

The Haredim live in the communist paradise promised by Rebbe Marx, and if that isn’t leftism then there is nothing more left-wing in the world.

Y.D. (2024-07-03)

David, you are talking nonsense. In practice the Haredim are the far left.

Michi (2024-07-03)

Maybe Rabbi Lando actually does know how to pay an electric bill and doesn’t think he is leading by divine inspiration.

David (2024-07-03)

I actually did answer you, but for some reason my comment was deleted.

Emanuel (2024-07-03)

Do secular people also have such failures – for example, does the struggle (by intelligent people) to free the hostages stem from the same failure?
What is your view about learning Torah from a Haredi rabbi who suffers from these failures – does it impair the learning, or is the learning theoretical, yeshiva-style, and therefore clean of these failures?

Michi (2024-07-03)

There are failures in every person and every group. But not all failures are rooted in the failure of intellectualism. I think those who fight to free the hostages at any price are not displaying intellectualism, but usually excessive emotionalism.
One can learn from anyone, assuming the learner is critical.

Shlomi (2024-07-03)

“After writing these things, the thought crossed my mind that I do not recall statements by Torah scholars from the Religious-Zionist camp (the non-Hardal wing) that I saw as such bizarre and detached nonsense.”

Are you serious?!
Just today I read a column by Haggai Lundin saying that the religious-Zionist public has no need whatsoever for self-examination because they warned about Oslo and the disengagement and so on.
The fact that the thug Ben Gvir and “the economy with God’s help” are at their head is fine of course. The fact that they promised security only if the left-wing government fell is fine. The main thing is that they supposedly have no need for soul-searching.
The fact that rabbis from Religious Zionism signed on to boycott Strauss because of Channel 14 and called the channel “a clear and lucid voice faithful to the tradition of Israel” is the height of sound judgment. Never mind that one of the faces of the channel is Yinon Magal, who according to reports hit on a married woman, and as Akiva Novick said about him and Shimon Riklin: “They live like Eyal Golan and tweet like Rabbi Kanievsky.”
You wrote about Haredim; the attempt to find comfort in broken cisterns is not serious.
If this is not bizarre enough, I’ll find you other statements.

Michi (2024-07-03)

What’s going on with your reading comprehension? Worth checking.
And regarding the blatant biases in your comparisons? That too.
I’m waiting for you to find them.

Shlomi (2024-07-03)

The main thing is that Channel 14 is glatt kosher under the supervision of the rabbis in Shoresh sandals.

Shlomi (2024-07-04)

You can’t get away with nothing, so I’ll just remind you of your statement that you would not judge Hitler negatively if he did what he did because he believed in it wholeheartedly. That, apparently, you forgot to test on simple people like me who can explain to you how absurd it is.

Michi (2024-07-04)

Wow, how did you manage to find so many examples? If you search here you’ll also find that I wrote 2+3=5. A prodigy like you should be completely exempt from the army and just sit and learn. It would be a shame to waste such talent.

David (2024-07-04)

What is unclear to you? Among themselves the Haredim live according to the communism I described (capitalist communism, which applies only among Jews – “Love your neighbor as yourself”). But they use the socialist mechanisms of the state for their own benefit (like everyone else, and certainly like the Arabs). But they do not believe in the secular communism on which it is based. And certainly not in progressive equality. No one on the right believes in that, even if he is not aware of it. You are invited to look in Rabbi Ashlag’s article “Freedom” for the difference between these two.

David (2024-07-04)

I answered Gabriel—take it from there. And why shouldn’t they use it? If the Arabs can, despite the fact that we have no shared destiny with them (to put it mildly).

Oren (2024-07-04)

The question is whether Rabbi Lando really thinks that secular people act out of persecution of Torah, or whether perhaps he understands that this is not the case, but uses that card in order to raise money for Torah study and justifies it to himself with the claim that it is permissible to lie in order to preserve the Torah world.

Michi (2024-07-04)

I spoke about the possibility of holy lies. Of course, beyond the lies, the problem is with the listeners who buy this line. That is why I went on to say that the problem is with them too.

Shaul (2024-07-05)

At the end of the day, we have a problem, and it’s called the Gemara. It is what attributed magical powers to the tannaim and amoraim, forbade questioning them and those who followed in their path, turned Torah Judaism (not the party, but the Pentateuch) into a popular, mystical religion full of stringencies that cannot be repealed and that is detached from reality.

Omri S. M. Weil (2024-07-05)

To sum up (natural intelligence, unlike the summary by artificial intelligence): they feel like Rabbi Shimon when he came out of the cave, except that they are not Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai and they know it. Let’s say— they do not act like Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai, but seek reward like his. Does that summarize the article? I think so. Everything else is just branching out—how it manifests itself in practice.

By the way, regarding the conviction of President Katzav for rape, that is one of the most bizarre cases of wrongful conviction. You are invited to read what Udi Perlsman (also trained as a physicist) has written; he has been investigating this for years. Your trust in an Israeli court is a failure—there are too many wrongful convictions in Israel.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010877222835

Moshe (2024-07-05)

The Gemara mentions many times criticism not only of tannaim and amoraim but also of figures from the Bible. The attribution of magical powers is part of a general magical conception of the world that is clearly visible in the Talmud, and which was very common in their time, and is not unique specifically to tannaim and amoraim.

The stringencies can certainly be repealed or changed according to the rules of the system, and the amoraim and rishonim did this many times. The problem is that we have no Sanhedrin or any other authority accepted by the whole nation, and also that today’s rabbis are much more conservative than the amoraim or the rishonim.

Ash (2024-07-05)

I understood that what the sages of Israel wrote regarding human effort—that there is no connection between effort and result—is along the lines of the one who said, “He who told the oil to burn can tell the vinegar to burn”; that is, just as the oil burns, there could be another world in which the vinegar burns, and in principle there is no reason the ingredients of the oil should cause it to burn while the ingredients of the vinegar should not cause it to burn. Rather, the Holy One, blessed be He, made (and perhaps makes at every single moment) a world in which the relation between action and result operates in a very specific and uniform way, which we call nature; therefore the oil burns and not the vinegar. But it is clear that after the Holy One, blessed be He, decided to conduct the world in a certain way, effort is connected to the result—but all this is only because of the presence and action of the Holy One, blessed be He, in all of reality and nature.
Do you think this may be what they mean? Or is it precisely this conception that you call a childish outlook?

Modi Ta’ani (2024-07-06)

I have to note that far too often I don’t understand you, or don’t agree with you, or think you contradict yourself.

Broadly speaking, your philosophy is very similar to mine, to things I have thought since my twenties and never found anyone who thought like me, until I came to your blog (since then I found one more, https://www.lesswrong.com/). Most of it is basically a sharp critique of intellectualism and analyticity, and an understanding of the ways in which they create distortions in the apprehension of reality. Today I discovered that you also think as I do about paradoxes: that they arise from two different and contradictory ways of looking at the world.

But the main difference is that you are religious and I am secular (though not an atheist). And also the fact that you are a thousand times more educated than I am, so there is a good chance I simply don’t understand.

Your claim here against the Haredim—“A child too will follow a logical argument without noticing that it is detached from common sense and reality. He is captivated by the charm of logic and is not really aware that there is also reality in the world”—is also true of the Gemara. According to that, in the story of the Oven of Akhnai, only R. Eliezer is the mature person, who sees the reality in which God Himself says that he is right, in contrast to the childish rabbis who rely only on the Torah, on ‘follow the majority,’ and on their intellectualism.

And that is the ethos of the Talmud and of all the Jewish halakhah that inherits from it. To the best of my knowledge, only in the modern period did a few begin to interpret the myth of the Oven of Akhnai differently.

Is that not so?

Modi Ta’ani (2024-07-06)

I was amused by the comparison to David Hume (the atheist). For me it also recalled the Christian theory (Lutheran, I think, but don’t quote me) that a person has no influence over his fate, but that success in life indicates that he is a good person to whom God shows favor.

Michi (2024-07-06)

That is not what they mean. Read the quotations again. According to that, in fact everything really does depend on our effort.
That is a trivial statement, of course. The laws of nature are not logic, and they certainly could have been otherwise.

Michi (2024-07-06)

I don’t see any connection whatsoever to the Oven of Akhnai. Mainstream religious and halakhic thinking is sober and attentive to reality, though of course you can always find exceptions.

Michi (2024-07-06)

There is indeed similarity to Protestant thinking. Both are nonsense.

David (2024-07-07)

With regard to Rabbi Lando, I don’t think your analysis is correct. It does not take much intelligence or maturity to understand how the growing economic burden of a non-drafting Haredi society looks through secular eyes, and he is surely not that stupid. He is simply stating the plain truth: none of this story would have happened if the Haredim had chosen the left and a left-wing government with Haredim inside it had been formed (Gafni said that Yair Lapid offered him “everything” in exchange for forming a left-wing government after the 2022 elections). All the claims against them would disappear. And on this I agree: all the petitions would not have been filed, the money would have kept flowing. Yair Golan astonishingly said last week that he is willing to form a government with the Haredim (who do not contribute) and not with Likud voters and the “messianists” from Religious Zionism (who are in fact a working public that supports itself, and as for military contribution there is nothing to discuss at all…). So clearly the story here is persecution out of hatred, though more hatred of Religious Zionism and the traditional Sephardi public (though the hatred of right-wing Ashkenazi secular “fascists” such as Begin still exists). Though of course the secular left hates the Haredi public too, without doubt, and imposing its religion matters to it more than any economic or security burden.

Because I saw many comments on sites responding to this fundraising campaign, and the great majority of the left-wing comments, instead of rejoicing that the Haredim were funding themselves instead of the state (never mind that it is one-time only—the very idea itself), for some reason got even angrier at them and were even more worried that they might manage economically on their own without the state and thus avoid enlistment without anyone being able to come to them with demands or complaints. Instead of wishing them success in going down that road, they wished them to fail in the effort. It really seemed that what mattered more to them was drafting the Haredim—and secularizing them—than making sure they would not rely economically on the state.

Michi (2024-07-07)

It is truly amazing to discover again and again what tendentiousness does to people. Sophisticated arguments of folly, while completely ignoring the facts and the plain meaning of the text. Truly a fine demonstration of the Haredi intellectualism discussed in the column.

David (2024-07-07)

First of all, I am not tendentious, because I have no shares in the Haredim and no interest in defending them, and I truly also think the Haredi public is childish (though point for point the same things apply to the left, which I absolutely detest—especially the judicial left).
Second, I am sure, and many agree with me, that the opposition parties would have brought the Haredim in at the price they demand, and somehow the High Court would have smoothed it over for them.
Third, you are putting into the heads of the High Court justices what you think about the situation, whereas it is clear they do not care at all about equality (since they rejected petitions asking why Arabs are not drafted) or about any future of the state (except for the knitted-kippah judges).
Fourth, I really have no idea why Rabbi Lando thinks as he does, and therefore I said that your interpretation of his words is not at all necessary. Has the fact that most of the Jewish people became secular escaped his notice? Has he not noticed that this is apparently connected to secularization throughout the West, and ostensibly to the lack of God’s providence in the world? (That is, he presumably gave some thought at some point to why secularity attracts people beyond the usual desires. After all, books are constantly being written to reconcile contradictions between Torah and science, and he surely heard of them.)

Maayan (2024-07-08)

A few remarks:
1. I feel that this claim—that “the sharper the mind, the greater the error,” and that intellectuals may arrive at distorted things because of neglect of common sense—is very true also regarding things the Israeli left promotes, which often seem contrary to common sense. For example, releasing Hamas hostages at any price, while ignoring the future damage that releasing murderous terrorists will cause, and the encouragement of further kidnappings in the future, etc.
This desire to free the hostages at any price also seems to me to come from some detachment from healthy common sense and to characterize educated people more…
And there are other aspects of the progressive left’s approach that involve deviation from common sense, and I will not elaborate.

2. It seems to me personally that common sense is what should be our guiding light—not as a middle path, but as the true path. With reason (that is not straight/common sense) one can reach all sorts of castles in the air, and it is not always possible to find what is wrong in those arguments, but common sense will feel that something is off.

3. I will also note that personally one particular point in Talmud study bothers me (and I have not learned much Gemara, but from what I did learn, or at least how I learned it back then): when trying to clarify a certain point, people look for early tannaim/amoraim who spoke about it, and then start pilpul around their words. They do not first of all apply common sense—what is the logical thing to say about it. That somewhat forces thought into something artificial that moves away from common sense. Isn’t that so? It is as if the main thing is the quote from so-and-so (wise as he may have been), and whether he meant the case we are discussing or not.
I would appreciate your response to that.

Michi (2024-07-08)

1. That is true of every group and almost every intellectual. But “the left” is too broad a word. There are parts of it that are not as deranged as the extreme progressives. There are also those there who oppose release at any price. But I have already written here that in my opinion even those who support it do so not because of intellectualism but, on the contrary, because of subservience to emotion.
2. Your reasoning is only half the picture, as I also explained in the column. Common sense too can sometimes mislead us, and it also needs checks.
3. There are those who do begin with a priori thinking. But even if not, when you want to explain a given position, regardless of whether it is correct, sometimes you must depart from your own common sense. See my columns 304 and 431 here on the site.

Shmuel (2024-07-08)

A few gems from the study hall of Nadav Shnerb:
https://woland.ph.biu.ac.il/?download=1633

Michi (2024-07-08)

Indeed, gems.

mozer (2024-07-08)

So how can a person who successfully got through Gan Rivka fail to understand the meaning of the secular (and religious) attitude, and attribute it to hatred of Haredim and persecution of Torah?
Simple. They remember. There were periods when there were almost no Torah scholars in the Land—certainly no “kollels”; most of the Haredi public worked—and nevertheless there was an antisemitic atmosphere in the country. Chaim Be’er said this, and he is surely acceptable to you.
The interviewer asked him whether he was not exaggerating—and he answered: “No. I am not exaggerating.”
A righteous man like me—his work is done by others. This week Ruby Rosenthal wrote in Haaretz that two wars are currently being fought: one with the external enemy, and the other—the more significant one—a war over the “character of the state.”
And in the “character of the state” he does not mention at all the economic and military issue (the “less important” one).
A retired judge saw a presenter with a head covering presenting an official ceremony and quickly tweeted:
“What is this—get her out of our sight.”
In this culture war, Rabbi Michael Abraham too will be disqualified. His doctorate will not save him.

Eli (2024-07-08)

First of all, the Haredim also have the excuse that human effort is literally a root of reality—the point is that by making the effort they are doing a religious mitzvah!
And even today yeshiva boys demand crazy sums with the encouragement of the yeshiva heads.
And I don’t think that in a discussion of the morality of a public, if the morality is corrupt, there is room for “containment.” You can be understanding toward the person and even respect him without agreeing, and also be angry at what he thinks; the same goes for the secular person.

jewishproblems (2024-07-08)

My condition is probably serious if I agree with what is said in the column.

What is interesting is that in essence the Haredim are returning to the kalam against whom Maimonides fought in The Guide of the Perplexed. They were very religious and denied any logical connection between act and result and between one moment and the next.

A good example of ‘intellectualism’ (2024-07-08)

With God’s help, 2 Tammuz 5784

We have found the ‘intellectualism’ of super-educated people, who think “let the value pierce reality,” come what may, in the conduct of the judicial elite in the draft issue. If one takes the principle of “equality in bearing the burden” to the end, and joins it with the assumption that Torah study is a private need of the individual—then everyone must be drafted at age 18, and there is no room for deferment or shortening.

The entire Torah world, Zionist and non-Zionist alike, is built on a different foundational assumption: that Torah study is a national value, and just as there is security value in soldiers in battle, who guard the body of the nation—so there is security value in those who labor in Torah, who guard the soul of the nation.

From here there is room for different combinations. There are those who serve in the army as career personnel dedicating many years to intensive military service, and there are those who “sign on for career service” in the yeshiva and develop Torah in its depth and breadth. And alongside them there is room for various shades of integration, such as Hesder, Merkaz Hesder, Stage Bet, and the like—all this out of the basic assumption that Torah study is a national value.

***
The gap between the two conceptions—one that sees Torah study as a personal private matter and one that sees Torah study as a national value—cannot be bridged on the level of principle, but it can be bridged on the practical plane.

An attempt at bridging was made through the Tal Law, which spoke of the possibility of going into the army for a year after six years in yeshiva, something that would encourage yeshiva students who wanted to go to work to do a year of army service, which would give them training for continued reserve service. The law was drafted by Supreme Court Justice Tzvi Tal (and was also supported by Justice Edna Arbel), but a majority of the High Court justices opposed it and struck it down.

Another attempt at bridging is the “draft law” currently proposed by the government, according to which the deferment would continue for one who diligently studies Torah and whose Torah is his vocation, and significant enlistment quotas would be set for those not studying in yeshiva. The proposal was brought up in the previous government by Defense Minister Gantz, and for some reason now he comes out sharply against the very law he himself proposed.

And the High Court, instead of welcoming the proposed law that speaks of drafting 3,000 Haredim a year—a number that is found with some difficulty within the IDF’s absorption capacity—issues, on Passover eve, a decree canceling the allocations for all Torah scholars and intensifying the pressure and want. They have not yet issued draft notices—and already they are imposing collective punishment…

Had they acted wisely, they would have allowed the new draft law to pass. In addition to the existing beginnings—Tomer, Hetz, Netzah Yehuda, Haredi Hesder yeshivot, and civilian service in the Shin Bet and the Mossad—the army is now talking about establishing a Haredi brigade (under the command of Col. Avigdor Amunah; see the article “A Brigade with Faith” on the Arutz 7 website). If this “pilot” and others like it succeed, there is a good chance it will inspire greater confidence in Haredi society and assist those who do not find their place in full-time study “to do something” useful with themselves for their own benefit and for the state. But in the great devotion of our jurists to the “sacred value of equality,” instead of encouraging positive trends—they issue decrees…

We can only appreciate the great Torah leaders, who on the one hand continue the activity to pass the “draft law,” and in parallel work to increase donations to the yeshivot so that they should not, heaven forbid, collapse because of the decrees. It is no small matter for a 94-year-old Jew to drag his feet knocking on the doors of benefactors, but a great Torah scholar cannot remain in an “ivory tower”; rather he harnesses all his strength to save the ship of Torah.

With blessings, Fish”L

Something is moving… (2024-07-08)

There is room for optimism after the events of Simchat Torah. The army, which until then had been captive to the conception of a “small and smart army,” understood that quantity too becomes quality; and on the other hand, in the Haredi public as well there is growing understanding that they have something to contribute in the army too. The chances are growing that they will begin seriously preparing to absorb Haredim into the IDF under suitable conditions, and instead of exalting “integration of women,” they will begin thinking about “integration of Haredim”…

With blessings, Fish”L

mozer (2024-07-08)

First line, first word—“my condition”; it should be corrected to “our condition.”

Yossi (2024-07-08)

Great article, Rabbi, as always.
I suspect the Haredim are not stupid; they are simply depraved. They found an effective way to have an easy life by means of Torah.

Daniel (2024-07-10)

Regarding the point that a decree has to be accepted by the whole people, Haredism proves itself on that score.
The Haredi sector is large and growing.
That is not something that can really be said about you and the sector to which you belong, with its high dropout rates.
That calls for interpretation, doesn’t it?

Michi (2024-07-10)

Did you manage to come up with that brilliant argument all by yourself? See column 609.

Y.D. (2024-07-10)

There was also the column in which you compared this question to a contest between the eagle and the duck. The Haredim swim nicely in the water, but do they dare fly in the sky—in the army, in academia, and in culture?

Easy life? (to Yossi) (2024-07-10)

With God’s help, 4 Tammuz 5784

To Yossi—greetings,

It does not seem to me that a person who studies Torah diligently from morning until night for decades, while supporting a large family on a tiny stipend that in the best case comes to far less than minimum wage, is thereby finding for himself an “easy life.” Torah study for decades out of poverty and hardship shows willingness for self-sacrifice and sacrifice for the sake of a great ideal in which he believes.

One may of course argue against this path that “study is great when it leads to action,” and that cultivating Torah in depth and breadth should find expression in practical life, and according to this there is logic to the idea that after building and establishing the “spiritual level” through prolonged yeshiva study, one should pour that great content also into the world of military action.

But to claim that Torah scholars are looking for an “easy life”—that does not seem right to me.

With blessings, Fish”L

Zerach (2024-07-11)

At the margins of the column—the statement that “the High Court merely expressed an opinion about the current legal situation and said nothing about the draft law” ignores the broader context.
It is true that at the moment the High Court only said what the law is in a situation where there is no draft law, but the reason there is no draft law is that the High Court struck down and will strike down any law that is not sufficiently equal in its view.

Michi (2024-07-11)

Indeed, and it would be right in doing so.

Dani (2024-07-11)

By the way, intellectualism—
do you think that in studying halakhah more weight should be given to “lomdus” (in an analytical form) or to “aliba de-hilkheta” (“practical halakhah”)? That is, which is preferable?
Personally, I prefer to study Talmud and halakhic decisors in a way from which I derive practical halakhic understandings. I mean, what practical value is there in lomdus? Fine, it’s nice and pretty, but what is its practical value? Other than writing some polished article about the claim of migo and the like.

Michi (2024-07-11)

There is no such thing as “aliba de-hilkheta.” All study is aliba de-hilkheta. If you mean studying the halakhic decisors, that is not aliba de-hilkheta. You cannot derive halakhic conclusions from a sugya if you have not analyzed it in a lomdish way. Setting the two against each other is a mistake (albeit, unfortunately, a very common one).

Nekhes’ (2024-07-14)

Haggai Lomedin and his delusions and his cronies are exactly standard Hardalism.
That is exactly what the rabbi wrote about.

Bim Bam Boom Zuta (2024-07-14)

David,
you live in an alternative world to plain reality.
R. Dov admittedly also suffers from a problem, but at least he learned a great deal of Torah…

A good piece of advice:
update yourself on reality as it is, whether better or worse,
and conspiracies and craziness are, as is known, not part of reality as it is.
From that moment on, all your great and mighty questions will solve themselves.

Kiryat Seferi (2024-07-14)

Fishl is bungling again.
When was the last time you met ordinary, regular Haredi youths or people who enjoy the bounty of the land and eat of the fruit of the taxpayers in this country?
I understand that you mean some tiny minority nullified in the majority, and you fantasize that these are the hundreds of thousands…

Wake up to reality.

Moshe (2024-07-14)

A remark regarding the discussion with the Haredi public: from the standpoint of their rationale, they are the world. And that is true, given that only outright heretics really get to conduct conversations outside the Haredi world (across its whole breadth). But that changes the perception of the individual there on political/social matters in relation to the rest of society, because he truly has no possibility of looking at things otherwise, and that does not necessarily indicate a failure of thought.
Regarding their conception of trust in God in security matters, I was told (I haven’t seen it myself) that the Chazon Ish limits this quite a bit. Even after that, are they all still like this, or is this just a broad collection of quotations? From the tone one may suspect the author of the article of lack of objectivity regarding the Haredim.

Eli (2024-07-14)

Yes, but they think he is not taking their outlook into account, and they do indeed believe to one degree or another in the value of Torah study, unless this is their problem in not having read the unequivocal column on the draft issue…

Moshe (2024-07-14)

He was not coming to argue why not to enlist, but rather (to the best of my understanding) about the rationale the Haredim operate with, which actually works, and apparently in the end there is consideration even at the margins.
This of course does not justify their argument against the religious Zionists; there are sects in a pretty difficult state with zero dropout. (Google it.)

Haredi (2024-09-16)

This is an intellectualistic statement that really, really does not correspond with common sense.

Zusha (2024-09-16)

By the same token one could say that the secularized swim nicely in the sea, but do they dare fly in the heavens—in Torah, in labor, and in acts of kindness?
This is simply a question of what counts as water and what as sky, or who is the eagle and who the duck.
There is no proof here for the justice of either side.

Yossi (2024-09-16)

If I understood correctly, this can be made much shorter.

Premise 1 – The classic Haredi arguments are claims that run contrary to common sense.

Premise 2 – Whoever holds such positions is childish.

Conclusion: The Haredim (or at least the Haredi mainstream) are childish.

And there is also proof: they really think these claims! (Which, as noted, run contrary to common sense.) And not only that, they are not even lying—they really, truly think this.

What you have basically done here is show that sometimes common sense overrides logical arguments, and from this you inferred that if Haredi positions are backed by logical arguments, that counts against them, because clinging to a logical argument against common sense is childishness.

But what if the Haredim’s common sense supports their positions? I am not interested in getting into a specific discussion, and the truth is I also cannot, because you yourself assumed that the logic stands (or may stand) with the Haredim, and nevertheless that is childish and “intellectualistic.”
To what common sense are you appealing? Common sense is a product of education, of a worldview formed from countless sources of information that we absorb throughout our lives. Until science discovered that the world is round, that fact ran contrary to the common sense of many, and yet their minds later straightened out to the right place after science proved it (we are talking about a world in which there were no photographs of the earth from space… ordinary people simply believed the scientific position, and their common sense adjusted. Or was it straight before that only in a Euclidean sense? 😊)

Clearly the common sense of someone who has not become accustomed to assigning value to words of Torah (intrinsic value, not only as a product of logical thinking), of someone who has never heard of a worldview holding that human actions have no effect whatsoever on his fate—in short, someone who has not been exposed to these ideas—clearly they are novel to someone who has never heard them before.
But by the same token, the theory of evolution runs contrary to the common sense of a Haredi child (or just a seventeenth-century child) who has never heard of it. And so does the paradoxical idea of putting a ball into a goal precisely while someone else is trying to stop you, or that people are willing to do many things just to take a picture with celebrities, or that there is even such a book about a boy who went to school to learn magic.
Quantum mechanics too runs contrary to the common sense of every person except physicists who have already become accustomed to it. But clearly we would not appeal to the common sense of someone who has not studied physics in order to give an opinion on such a question.

I agree that there is something distasteful in people who are unaware of positions that contradict their own, in people who wave around bubble-gum slogans with a triumphant smile; and indeed it makes sense that in the Haredi public there is a higher percentage of these. Still, as someone who knows many Haredi rabbis, including some of those you mentioned, one can easily show that there is also a great deal of common sense and simple life wisdom behind their decisions. And be clear that Rabbi Lando knows very well what secular people think about his conduct. The fact that he does not publicly engage those arguments is simply because he has no interest in doing so. (It will always be possible to claim that his words suffer from intellectualism and childishness.)

Honestly, as someone who has been so influenced by you—from my youth as a hard-core Haredi yeshiva student until this very day—it is very hard for me to read an article like this. There have been many articles I did not like or did not agree with; that is natural and I have no problem with it. But in this article, unfortunately, there was no argument at all, only “well, obviously they’re idiots…” and also “they are idiots, aren’t they?”

That is why I wrote these words in pain, and yet I hope my words will be heard on their merits.

Yossi (2024-09-16)

(The comment accidentally went up somewhere above as a reply to someone, so I am posting it again here, sorry.)
If I understood correctly, this can be made much shorter.

Premise 1 – The classic Haredi arguments are claims that run contrary to common sense.

Premise 2 – Whoever holds such positions is childish.

Conclusion: The Haredim (or at least the Haredi mainstream) are childish.

And there is also proof: they really think these claims! (Which, as noted, run contrary to common sense.) And not only that, they are not even lying—they really, truly think this.

What you have basically done here is show that sometimes common sense overrides logical arguments, and from this you inferred that if Haredi positions are backed by logical arguments, that counts against them, because clinging to a logical argument against common sense is childishness.

But what if the Haredim’s common sense supports their positions? I am not interested in getting into a specific discussion, and the truth is I also cannot, because you yourself assumed that the logic stands (or may stand) with the Haredim, and nevertheless that is childish and “intellectualistic.”
To what common sense are you appealing? Common sense is a product of education, of a worldview formed from countless sources of information that we absorb throughout our lives. Until science discovered that the world is round, that fact ran contrary to the common sense of many, and yet their minds later straightened out to the right place after science proved it (we are talking about a world in which there were no photographs of the earth from space… ordinary people simply believed the scientific position, and their common sense adjusted. Or was it straight before that only in a Euclidean sense? 😊)

I agree that there is something distasteful in people who are unaware of positions that contradict their own, in people who wave around bubble-gum slogans with a triumphant smile; and indeed it makes sense that in the Haredi public there is a higher percentage of these. Still, as someone who knows many Haredi rabbis, including some of those you mentioned, one can easily show that there is also a great deal of common sense and simple life wisdom behind their decisions. And be clear that Rabbi Lando knows very well what secular people think about his conduct. The fact that he does not publicly engage those arguments is simply because he has no interest in doing so. (It will always be possible to claim that his words suffer from intellectualism and childishness.)

Honestly, as someone who has been so influenced by you—from my youth as a hard-core Haredi yeshiva student until this very day—it is very hard for me to read an article like this. There have been many articles I did not like or did not agree with; that is natural and I have no problem with it. But in this article, unfortunately, there was no argument at all, only “well, obviously they’re idiots…” and also “they are idiots, aren’t they?”

That is why I wrote these words in pain, and yet I hope my words will be heard on their merits.

Yossi (2024-09-16)

Oops, it went up here again…
I tried 🫣
Sorry.

Michi (2025-04-08)

Here is a wonderful example from today:

MK Moshe Roth also told the Times of Israel website:
“The Haredi public contributes more than it receives, and ultimately there is no difference between those who work and those who do not work, in terms of the amount of tax revenue they generate.” According to him, “They slander the Haredim, they are delegitimizing them.”

*He then added: “There is no need to get into the nuances of economics, revenues, budgets, or basic physical concepts. Things work by themselves. The state is fixed anyway.”*
*“Those who work and those who do not—each in his own way. The one who brings a pay slip and the one who brings a page of Gemara both contribute equally. Sometimes, precisely the one who does not work saves us more. If we abolish work entirely and sanctify idleness, we will very quickly arrive at a budget surplus. Because there will be no reason to spend.”*

As for service in the IDF, Roth said: “There is a surplus of soldiers. There are tens of thousands sitting around doing nothing. Wasting their time. Therefore, instead of drafting yeshiva students, maybe we should send the soldiers to kollels. Let them begin to serve for real. The problem is not a lack of manpower but a lack of faith in the power of Torah study in the yeshivot.”

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